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Old
06-14-2013, 09:32 AM
  #376
shutehinside
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Reading these trade proposals makes me think that most people have it all wrong.

The trick to being a good GM isn't trading a bunch of younger assets and picks for established players who have name brand recognition. It's the GM's who can see a player who's on the verge of being a great player that no one else has recognized and trading or signing that player.

Once a player has already had a good year their value skyrockets and most times they don't repeat their past performance and their production lags, especially when moving to a new team, system, coach etc. By finding a player who hasn't broken out yet, you can get them for cheap and maximized future potential. While this is much harder in reality than it is in theory, that's what most really good GM's look like and what makes a trade look so lopsided.

Now I know these trade proposals are fun and creative way to mold our team for the future, but most of the proposals are so far out of left field that there's a huge disconnect between the reality and what actualy might occur or at least what's might occur within reason. Trading Price, PK, Patches etc will not happen, at least not this off season.

If I had more time or knowledge I'd try to be a bit more creative and try to figure out who's a good young player who's relatively unknown who we could steal from another team and would fit well in our system. Prust is a perfect example of a player that most would never have thought would have come here and made the impact he did, but it's far more reasonable to think a player like Prust would be signed rather than trading our franachise goalie or all our spare parts for a superstar.

Just my 2 cents to try to make the thread more fun to read. I wish I had more time to research and add some proposals but I don't. Barely had time for this rant!

Rock on.

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06-14-2013, 09:38 AM
  #377
Agnostic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPGoHabsGo View Post
Why is everyone willing to trade price after a bad stretch of games and a bad playoff series?


and please don't tell me hes "bad" in the playoffs.

His first appearance was his rookie year and he did alright against Boston

His second we got swept when he was having a very bad year and our team was in a tailspin

His third he played like a half game

His fourth he did everything he could to get us to the second round, we lost in OT to the cup champs off a failed shot block.

His fifth he was pretty mediocre in net on game 1, very good in game 2, terrible in game 3, was not bad in game 4 and I feel we were the victim of the refs wanting OT ratings, then got hurt.
Wrong thread . This is the off season thread, where people talk about improving the club through trades and other transactions. There's a Price thread for revisionist history and excuse making.

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Old
06-14-2013, 09:47 AM
  #378
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Draft Day and Offseason trades:

To Montreal: Mark Fayne and Steve Bernier
To New Jersey: Raphael Diaz

To Montreal: Alex Chiasson, pick #54 and pick #131 in 2013.
To Dallas: David Desharnais, Yannick Weber and pick #86 in 2013.

To Montreal: pick #116 in 2013.
To New York I: Michael Ryder

Sign Viktor Stalberg and Dave Steckel.


Max Pacioretty - Tomas Plekanec - Brendan Gallagher
Rene Bourque - Lars Eller - Alex Chiasson
Viktor Stalberg* - Alex Galchenyuk - Brian Gionta
Brandon Prust - David Steckel* - Steve Bernier
-Ryan White and Travis Moen

Josh Gorges - PK Subban
Andrei Markov - Mark Fayne
Alexei Emelin - Jarred Tinordi
-Francis Bouillon and Davis Drewiske

Carey Price
Peter Budaj

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06-14-2013, 09:50 AM
  #379
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Dave Steckel is trash. Even the Leafs didn't want him and traded him for a 7th rounder. Halpern is much better.

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06-14-2013, 10:02 AM
  #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
Draft Day and Offseason trades:

To Montreal: Mark Fayne and Steve Bernier
To New Jersey: Raphael Diaz

To Montreal: Alex Chiasson, pick #54 and pick #131 in 2013.
To Dallas: David Desharnais, Yannick Weber and pick #86 in 2013.

To Montreal: pick #116 in 2013.
To New York I: Michael Ryder

Sign Viktor Stalberg and Dave Steckel.


Max Pacioretty - Tomas Plekanec - Brendan Gallagher
Rene Bourque - Lars Eller - Alex Chiasson
Viktor Stalberg* - Alex Galchenyuk - Brian Gionta
Brandon Prust - David Steckel* - Steve Bernier
-Ryan White and Travis Moen

Josh Gorges - PK Subban
Andrei Markov - Mark Fayne
Alexei Emelin - Jarred Tinordi
-Francis Bouillon and Davis Drewiske

Carey Price
Peter Budaj
Give me Bickell instead of Stalberg. Add Clarkson's rights in the NJ trade and then try to move Gionta to Columbus with a 2nd for one of their late firsts.

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Old
06-14-2013, 10:35 AM
  #381
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one team that might be interested in Gionta is Edmonton, they want to change the leadership there and with a new GM and coach. Having Gionta would be a big help to them.

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06-14-2013, 10:44 AM
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1993 View Post
Give me Bickell instead of Stalberg. Add Clarkson's rights in the NJ trade and then try to move Gionta to Columbus with a 2nd for one of their late firsts.
Bickell will go for Leino type money like 4.5 to 5 million. And it will be a bidding war. Stalberg will be less in demand and cheaper.

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06-14-2013, 10:45 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Dave Steckel is trash. Even the Leafs didn't want him and traded him for a 7th rounder. Halpern is much better.
Get him for faceoffs and size for a league minimum salary.

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06-14-2013, 10:50 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
Get him for faceoffs and size for a league minimum salary.
So after the face off, you take him off the ice right away ? Because you don't want him on the ice for more than 10 seconds.

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06-14-2013, 10:51 AM
  #385
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If Pittsburgh would, and Bergevin could, trade for Letang, I'd be in heaven. He could be the perfect replacement for Markov.

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Old
06-14-2013, 10:51 AM
  #386
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
Draft Day and Offseason trades:

To Montreal: Mark Fayne and Steve Bernier
To New Jersey: Raphael Diaz

To Montreal: Alex Chiasson, pick #54 and pick #131 in 2013.
To Dallas: David Desharnais, Yannick Weber and pick #86 in 2013.

To Montreal: pick #116 in 2013.
To New York I: Michael Ryder

Sign Viktor Stalberg and Dave Steckel.


Max Pacioretty - Tomas Plekanec - Brendan Gallagher
Rene Bourque - Lars Eller - Alex Chiasson
Viktor Stalberg* - Alex Galchenyuk - Brian Gionta
Brandon Prust - David Steckel* - Steve Bernier
-Ryan White and Travis Moen

Josh Gorges - PK Subban
Andrei Markov - Mark Fayne
Alexei Emelin - Jarred Tinordi
-Francis Bouillon and Davis Drewiske

Carey Price
Peter Budaj
are we trying to build the biggest, softest team humanly possible?

Why the hell would we trade a solid top 4 NHL d-man for two journeymen, dime a dozen players in Bernier and Fayne?

Why would we want Steckel and Stalberg? I thought we wanted a grittier team, not softer?


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Old
06-14-2013, 10:54 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
If Pittsburgh would, and Bergevin could, trade for Letang, I'd be in heaven. He could be the perfect replacement for Markov.
First, I doubt he gets traded, Pittsburgh will have him signed to a long extension within 2-3 months.

Second, he would cost a fortune in assets and cap hit while not really filling a need, we already have PK and Markov and Beaulieu on the way.

If I'm to invest a ton(like 3 prime assets plus 7+ mil of cap space), the guy should fill a big need, not just add to my strength and be "nice to have".

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Old
06-14-2013, 10:54 AM
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
are we trying to build the biggest, softest team humanly possible?

Why the hell would we trade a solid top 4 NHL d-man for two journeymen, dime a dozen players in Bernier and Fayne?

Why would we want Steckel and Stalberg? I thought we wanted a grittier team, not softer?

I agree with your general sentiment but is this what we are calling Diaz these days?
Ugh.

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Old
06-14-2013, 11:00 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
I agree with your general sentiment but is this what we are calling Diaz these days?
Ugh.
He played over 20 minutes a game(22+ in the playoffs), was a plus player and on a 50 point pace, on what planet is that not top 4 calibre in the NHL?

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06-14-2013, 11:12 AM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
Draft Day and Offseason trades:

To Montreal: Mark Fayne and Steve Bernier
To New Jersey: Raphael Diaz

To Montreal: Alex Chiasson, pick #54 and pick #131 in 2013.
To Dallas: David Desharnais, Yannick Weber and pick #86 in 2013.

To Montreal: pick #116 in 2013.
To New York I: Michael Ryder

Sign Viktor Stalberg and Dave Steckel.


Max Pacioretty - Tomas Plekanec - Brendan Gallagher
Rene Bourque - Lars Eller - Alex Chiasson
Viktor Stalberg* - Alex Galchenyuk - Brian Gionta
Brandon Prust - David Steckel* - Steve Bernier
-Ryan White and Travis Moen

Josh Gorges - PK Subban
Andrei Markov - Mark Fayne
Alexei Emelin - Jarred Tinordi
-Francis Bouillon and Davis Drewiske

Carey Price
Peter Budaj
softer than last year. Terrible

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Old
06-14-2013, 11:19 AM
  #391
Agnostic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
He played over 20 minutes a game(22+ in the playoffs), was a plus player and on a 50 point pace, on what planet is that not top 4 calibre in the NHL?
He's top 4 on a team that was destroyed in the first round of the playoffs.

Extrapolating on a PP guy in a 23 game season is dangerous, Diaz shouldn't be in the long term plan here.

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06-14-2013, 11:19 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
are we trying to build the biggest, softest team humanly possible?

Why the hell would we trade a solid top 4 NHL d-man for two journeymen, dime a dozen players in Bernier and Fayne?

Why would we want Steckel and Stalberg? I thought we wanted a grittier team, not softer?

While I agree for the most part... Mark Fayne is FAR from a journeyman. I don't think you've watched many NJD games. Ask any Devils fan or go look on their board and they'll say that Fayne has been their second best defenceman after Greene this past season. He's a big body (not overly physical, but is a Scuderi type) that would look very good next to Markov.

Bernier, Steckel, Stalberg are all meh... White is much better and much more physical than steckel...

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06-14-2013, 11:23 AM
  #393
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The most absurd part of all of that is Dallas trading Alex Chiasson and a 2nd for Desharnais and Weber.

We trade our two most worthless pieces (according to this board) for a 6'3" Quebecer who scored 6 goals in 7 games last year. Talk about a Habs fan fantasy.

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Old
06-14-2013, 11:23 AM
  #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Reading these trade proposals makes me think that most people have it all wrong.

The trick to being a good GM isn't trading a bunch of younger assets and picks for established players who have name brand recognition. It's the GM's who can see a player who's on the verge of being a great player that no one else has recognized and trading or signing that player.

Once a player has already had a good year their value skyrockets and most times they don't repeat their past performance and their production lags, especially when moving to a new team, system, coach etc. By finding a player who hasn't broken out yet, you can get them for cheap and maximized future potential. While this is much harder in reality than it is in theory, that's what most really good GM's look like and what makes a trade look so lopsided.

Now I know these trade proposals are fun and creative way to mold our team for the future, but most of the proposals are so far out of left field that there's a huge disconnect between the reality and what actualy might occur or at least what's might occur within reason. Trading Price, PK, Patches etc will not happen, at least not this off season.

If I had more time or knowledge I'd try to be a bit more creative and try to figure out who's a good young player who's relatively unknown who we could steal from another team and would fit well in our system. Prust is a perfect example of a player that most would never have thought would have come here and made the impact he did, but it's far more reasonable to think a player like Prust would be signed rather than trading our franachise goalie or all our spare parts for a superstar.

Just my 2 cents to try to make the thread more fun to read. I wish I had more time to research and add some proposals but I don't. Barely had time for this rant!

Rock on.
Keep it real, man. Couldn't agree more. Enough with the Bickell, Clarkson, Scuderi etc.

Carl Klingberg, Devante Smith-Pelly, Boone Jenner, and Alex Chiasson are the "dark-horse" young players I'd like to add.

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06-14-2013, 11:43 AM
  #395
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
He's top 4 on a team that was destroyed in the first round of the playoffs.

Extrapolating on a PP guy in a 23 game season is dangerous, Diaz shouldn't be in the long term plan here.
So what? Pittsburgh got "destroyed" 10x worse by Boston, does that mean they have to upgrade on Crosby and malkin as top 2 centers?

Basing an evaluation of a player based on 5 game period in inherently flawed, especially after you tell me that prorating his stats based on 23 games is "dangerous" then you go and pull something 5x worse...even worse when you consider the huge imbalance in goaltending. Diaz was average in that series, definitely not the reason we lost.

I guess we have to use the Ottawa series as the "truth" so we should be drafting 3-4 goalies among our early picks since goaltending was a huge issue in that series.

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06-14-2013, 11:50 AM
  #396
Chris Cutter
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dave steckel is trash. Even the leafs didn't want him and traded him for a 7th rounder. Halpern is much better.
but he's 6'5!!!!11!!!

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06-14-2013, 11:51 AM
  #397
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While I agree for the most part... Mark Fayne is FAR from a journeyman. I don't think you've watched many NJD games. Ask any Devils fan or go look on their board and they'll say that Fayne has been their second best defenceman after Greene this past season. He's a big body (not overly physical, but is a Scuderi type) that would look very good next to Markov.

Bernier, Steckel, Stalberg are all meh... White is much better and much more physical than steckel...
Still he only got #5 quality(18:06 per game) on a team that missed the playpffs and who's main weakness IS the defense core. Deboer must not have gotten the memo.

I'd definitely never trade Diaz for him straight up, he has 3x Fayne's value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
The most absurd part of all of that is Dallas trading Alex Chiasson and a 2nd for Desharnais and Weber.

We trade our two most worthless pieces (according to this board) for a 6'3" Quebecer who scored 6 goals in 7 games last year. Talk about a Habs fan fantasy.
Chiasson is not as good as his 2013 numbers. Gets massively overrated based on a 7 game stretch. The guy is 22(will be 23 in the fall) was was on a 50 point pace in the AHL this year. Hardly a "can't miss" or "future star", projects as a decent 2nd liner at best.

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06-14-2013, 11:53 AM
  #398
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I do not want to offend anyone here, but to the person that wrote Diaz as being a top four defenseman in the NHL, that is just not right.

The only reason he gets the minutes he does in Montreal is, well it's Montreal.

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06-14-2013, 11:55 AM
  #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Chiasson is not as good as his 2013 numbers. Gets massively overrated based on a 7 game stretch. The guy is 22(will be 23 in the fall) was was on a 50 point pace in the AHL this year. Hardly a "can't miss" or "future star", projects as a decent 2nd liner at best.
Of course he's not, but that's entirely besides the point. If we called up Steve Quailer at the end of the year and he scored 6 goals in 7 games, would you give him away for junk even though you knew he wasn't going to score at a goal-per-game pace the rest of his career? Heck no.

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06-14-2013, 11:57 AM
  #400
Agnostic
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
So what? Pittsburgh got "destroyed" 10x worse by Boston, does that mean they have to upgrade on Crosby and malkin as top 2 centers?

Basing an evaluation of a player based on 5 game period in inherently flawed, especially after you tell me that prorating his stats based on 23 games is "dangerous" then you go and pull something 5x worse...even worse when you consider the huge imbalance in goaltending. Diaz was average in that series, definitely not the reason we lost.

I guess we have to use the Ottawa series as the "truth" so we should be drafting 3-4 goalies among our early picks since goaltending was a huge issue in that series.
You are all over the map. You are extrapolating off 23 games to project 50 points for Diaz.

I am saying that a team that was destroyed in the first round of the playoffs in no small part to the D and goaltending needs to have a player better than Raphael Diaz in it's second pairing position. IMO, not in the long term Hab picture .


Quote:
Originally Posted by drakaar10iemechx2012 View Post
I do not want to offend anyone here, but to the person that wrote Diaz as being a top four defenseman in the NHL, that is just not right.

The only reason he gets the minutes he does in Montreal is, well it's Montreal.
So politely stated, and correct.

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