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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 11.0

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06-14-2013, 11:09 AM
  #351
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Originally Posted by Hullois View Post
Kind of like Prust? We absolutely need that so let's go for it.
That's not what you go for with a first rounder. Especially in a draft this deep. You can grab a guy like Tyler Hill a few rounds later if you want that kind of player.

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06-14-2013, 11:11 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by LeHabsMan View Post
I have been trying to convince everybody that JDLR should be our pick at #34 or #36 but Poirier, Dauphin and McCarron are considered "better" pick around here.

He is a beast defensively, can play any position on offense, plays with a lot of grit, hits and plays physical, goes to the net, good speed, good hands and a pretty good shot. The only knock on him is if he can turn all these tools into a top 6 forward. If he doesnt he will be a great 3rd liner but if he does i see him as a David Backes type player.

He is a lot grittier than Eller and needs to put on more weight. Imagine if he puts on about 10-20 pounds. 6"2, 210 pound winger is pretty good. He would be a physical beast.
This is pretty much how I see it as well. The concern you list is the concern as he otherwise would be going higher. I don't know about talent evaluation in terms of all that it takes to translate it to the NHL, but I do know that skating ability is usually pretty critical and this kid seems to skate well. He also looks to have a good skill level and all the draft write-ups I have seen seem to accept he does have t least a a decent enough skill set. The write-ups also agree that he works hard at both ends and he plays physical, which is what I have seen of him. I also know that in todays NHL unless you are talking about the elite or star players in terms of skill and speed, the most effective and valuable guys are the ones with good speed, a good enough skill set and the size and willingness to go to the tough areas of the ice, this especially at play-off time
My only concern with what I think TTs approach to drafting ( I think TT is great by the way ) is that in deciding what makes a player BPA size and physicality are not given enough weight ( I absolutely agree with the philosophy of skill and speed being extremely important ) and perhaps a guy like De La Rosa isn't considered as seriously as might be warranted. I mean if TT thinks the skill set isn't there then fine, but Id rather get a good enough skill player who has size and is physical than a somewhat more skilled player who is small or plays smaller than he is.

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06-14-2013, 11:14 AM
  #353
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Yianik, it has been a while that i wanted to point out to you that your favorite's player is in fact named De la RosE.

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06-14-2013, 11:15 AM
  #354
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Just a thought about a run on defencemen at the 2013 Entry Draft ;
These are the possible 1st round picks;

RD-
Seth Jones - 6'3 - 210 lbs. RD
R. Ristolainen - 6'4 - 205 lbs.RD
Ryan Pulock - 6'0 - 215 lbs.RD
M. Bowey - 6'1 - 205 lbs. RD
S.Santini - 6'2 - 210 lbs. RD

LD-
Darnell Nurse - 6'5 - 195 lbs. LD
N. Zadorov - 6'5 - 230 lbs. LD
M. Mueller - 6'3 - 190 LD
C. Bigras - 6'1 - 190 lbs. LD
J. Morrissey - 5'11 - 185 lbs. LD
S. Morin - 6'7 - 200 lbs. LD
I. McCoshen - 6'2 - 207 lbs. LD
D. Heatherington - 6'3 - 200 lbs. LD
R. Hagg - 6'2 - 195 lbs. LD
S. Theodore - 6'2 - 185 lbs. LD

That's 15 possible defencemen, so I really expect to see a run on Dmen between picks #14 - 30. Anyone that says this isn't a deep draft should see this list, last year was supposed to be a really deep Defence Loaded Draft and there were 12 - 1st round defencemen drafted. Usually drafts average about 9 defencemen in the 1st rounds, so look to see some players fall into the 20 - 30 range when the run happens. The players that are most likely to fall will be forwards, considering there is only Fucale for 1st round goalies.


Last edited by S Bah: 06-14-2013 at 11:51 AM.
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06-14-2013, 11:16 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
That's not what you go for with a first rounder. Especially in a draft this deep. You can grab a guy like Tyler Hill a few rounds later if you want that kind of player.
Putting aside the fact that I don't think McCarron and Hill belong in the same universe together, why would we be able to do that now when we've proven inept at doing it for the past decade?

You can count the number of power forwards Montreal has drafted and developed on zero fingers if you don't call Pacioretty one (and most wouldn't). Why are we suddenly going to start plucking them from the trees in the 6th round?

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06-14-2013, 11:17 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
He's not as tough as Prust though.

I can't believe there's still 17 days left until this draft. There's not much more to say about this draft at this point. We've said it all.
It's gotten a little redundant. If I hear about Mantha, Morin, McCarron or Gauthier one more time...... Though I am a little guilty of bringing up Mantha just to see WTK try and curb-stomp his prospect profile.

A couple players we may not have touched on much.... Does anyone have info on Willhelm Westlund or Juuso Ikonen? Haven't watched any games with a specific focus on either of them. Looks like they could be around our #55 and #71 picks.

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06-14-2013, 11:31 AM
  #357
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What about this guy??

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=40878

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06-14-2013, 11:38 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Putting aside the fact that I don't think McCarron and Hill belong in the same universe together, why would we be able to do that now when we've proven inept at doing it for the past decade?

You can count the number of power forwards Montreal has drafted and developed on zero fingers if you don't call Pacioretty one (and most wouldn't). Why are we suddenly going to start plucking them from the trees in the 6th round?
They're not on the same level at all, but if you're just aiming on drafting Prust kind of guys, might as well save your top picks for something else.

As you say, everyone is in love with those Bickell/prust types, but generally fail to realize there's about 17 other guys on the team next to him and at least 3-5 of those who are clearly more important. Those are the players we should be targetting.

As for actually drafting them, well, we've done just about as well in the first round as we have in the later rounds in regards to drafting a big tough power forward or even 'at worst he'll be a great 3rd liner" kinda guys (chips, leblanc). And invoking Occam's Razor, I would rather assume it's more because of the inability to properly evaluate or scout that particular talent than it is unwillingness, so I hope the organization wouldn't ask timmins to bias himself towards larger players as many on this board are suggesting.

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06-14-2013, 11:38 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Putting aside the fact that I don't think McCarron and Hill belong in the same universe together, why would we be able to do that now when we've proven inept at doing it for the past decade?

You can count the number of power forwards Montreal has drafted and developed on zero fingers if you don't call Pacioretty one (and most wouldn't). Why are we suddenly going to start plucking them from the trees in the 6th round?
This year the Habs are picking in the right position at 25th and then again at 34th & 36th. The other reason is our GM will be looking for those players, knowing his team is threadbare for any players of that ilk. Without those types their chances of winning the SC are slim and none, actually none.

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06-14-2013, 11:39 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
Yianik, it has been a while that i wanted to point out to you that your favorite's player is in fact named De la RosE.
LOL, somehow RosA got in my head, and there it stayed. Thanks , don't sound too credible not knowing the guys actual name I suppose.

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06-14-2013, 11:39 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Gaston Gingras View Post
He's going top 5. He won't fall to us.

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06-14-2013, 11:41 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Reviewed again all the team Canada U18 games. For Ds, Samuel Morin was best all-around. Very slick. Made good decisions. Tape to tape passes...

Worst IMO (by far), Heatherington... Panicked, nervous, coughed up the puck, bad passes, bad decisions, little hockey sense. On the plus side, his skating and size.
I saw every 2013 U-18 games for Canada and Dillon Heatherington was likely one of the best defenceman in the tournament. He showed great poise with and without the puck. He was always at the good places making good decisions. He was great defensively. While he isn't creative with the puck, he was making the safe and smart plays. He was on the top pairing with Madison Bowey. You probably talk about Chris Bigras or Shea Theodore...

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06-14-2013, 11:45 AM
  #363
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De La Rose is fine.... at #55

There, you don't worry about him if his offensive game doesn't translate passed 3rd liner.

At 34, 36, you're looking at potential first rounders who fell.

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06-14-2013, 11:46 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Gaston Gingras View Post
WTF 1512 PIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5'4 273 pounds, what th hell is this guy???

-23 in 2 games

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06-14-2013, 11:47 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by EveryDay View Post
WTF 1512 PIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5'4 273 pounds, what th hell is this guy???
'testville', indeed.

Somebody has a bit of a napoleon complex.

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06-14-2013, 11:47 AM
  #366
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25 - Zykov, Lazar, Hartman
34 - McCoshen, Santini, Mueller
36 - McCarron, Poirier, Carrier

In that order, if more than one is available.

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06-14-2013, 11:48 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
They're not on the same level at all, but if you're just aiming on drafting Prust kind of guys, might as well save your top picks for something else.

As you say, everyone is in love with those Bickell/prust types, but generally fail to realize there's about 17 other guys on the team next to him and at least 3-5 of those who are clearly more important. Those are the players we should be targetting.
And as I said, there's nothing about drafting McCarron at 25 that would preclude us from getting 2 skilled players at 34/36. We also used 3 of our first 4 picks last year on skilled forwards.

If you keep drafting average sized, skilled forwards, that's all your team is ever going to be made up of. And I'm not saying skilled forwards are a bad thing but, as we clearly saw in the playoffs first hand, you need a mix. They're hard to get in a trade and hard to get in free agency, so where else can you look? I don't see another avenue besides the draft.

People want an identity change in Montreal but aren't willing to take the risks to get there.

Quote:
As for actually drafting them, well, we've done just about as well in the first round as we have in the later rounds in regards to drafting a big tough power forward or even 'at worst he'll be a great 3rd liner" kinda guys (chips, leblanc). And invoking Occam's Razor, I would rather assume it's more because of the inability to properly evaluate or scout that particular talent than it is unwillingness, so I hope the organization wouldn't ask timmins to bias himself towards larger players as many on this board are suggesting.
On the contrary, I would suggest that our scouting staff's weakness in being unable to identify and draft power forwards in any round as a reason for why we would need to reach higher for those guys than maybe some other teams who can draft power forwards in later rounds would have to. If our scouts aren't getting it done in that area (but are extremely proficient in other areas), why not take a chance on the consensus guy? Can't be worse than the nothing we've produced so far, and you still have your two other high picks in the second round to fall back on if he busts.

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06-14-2013, 11:50 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by EveryDay View Post
WTF 1512 PIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5'4 273 pounds, what th hell is this guy???

-23 in 2 games
He's a fake guy Elite Prospects uses to test (hint, hint) their draft thing every year. So every year a few hours before the draft starts he goes first overall.

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06-14-2013, 11:53 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
That's not what you go for with a first rounder. Especially in a draft this deep. You can grab a guy like Tyler Hill a few rounds later if you want that kind of player.
You can do that but the earlier you draft that Prust type of player, the more chances you have that he will actually make it to the NHL and be somewhat skilled. If you always wait for the later rounds and pick whatever big guy is left, chances are that will be his upside (size) and he won't have the skills to take a regular shift on a NHL 3rd line.


Last edited by Hullois: 06-14-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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06-14-2013, 12:20 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Just a thought about a run on defencemen at the 2013 Entry Draft ;
These are the possible 1st round picks;

RD-
Seth Jones - 6'3 - 210 lbs. RD
R. Ristolainen - 6'4 - 205 lbs.RD
Ryan Pulock - 6'0 - 215 lbs.RD
M. Bowey - 6'1 - 205 lbs. RD
S.Santini - 6'2 - 210 lbs. RD

LD-
Darnell Nurse - 6'5 - 195 lbs. LD
N. Zadorov - 6'5 - 230 lbs. LD
M. Mueller - 6'3 - 190 LD
C. Bigras - 6'1 - 190 lbs. LD
J. Morrissey - 5'11 - 185 lbs. LD
S. Morin - 6'7 - 200 lbs. LD
I. McCoshen - 6'2 - 207 lbs. LD
D. Heatherington - 6'3 - 200 lbs. LD

That's 13 possible defencemen, so I really expect to see a run on Dmen between picks #14 - 30. Anyone that says this isn't a deep draft should see this list, last year was supposed to be a really deep Defence Loaded Draft and there were 12 - 1st round defencemen drafted. Usually drafts average about 9 defencemen in the 1st rounds, so look to see some players fall into the 20 - 30 range when the run happens. The players that are most likely to fall will be forwards, considering there is only Fucale for 1st round goalies.I missed Robert Hagg RD from Sweden.
Your use of the word.. run.. is what scares me. I don't ever remember seeing this number of big physical D-men who can skate and Im scared for 2 reasons. One is that despite pre-drafts having these guys going as late as the 50s that teams grab them all a lot lower, like you suggest, because teams love guys like this. Second is that given my view that TT quite rightly values speed and skill highly in what decides if a player is BPA and doesn't put much value perhaps into size and physicality ( I think more weight should be put on these qualities ) that we might pass on these big physical good skating dudes to draft barely 6 foot guys who weigh 170 lbs ( and this draft is deep at forwards I know )just because they skate well and have a better skill set than the big guys, so that makes them BPA. Im drooling at the possibility of picking up at least one of these guys and maybe two so that in a few years we have at least one more monstrous physical guy to play alongside Tinordi. And no, I don't see these guys as a dime a dozen because teams who have them try to keep them during their prime and so the only UFAs that you have are older, slower guys, like this year.

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06-14-2013, 12:25 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by Gaston Gingras View Post
D*man that 44-year contract extension. Oh well--maybe we can draft his brother.

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06-14-2013, 12:40 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
From what I have seen of him, he appears to move very well in a short area for his size.


But in terms of his ability to skate on the rush, I think he's similar to Latendresse, which is not a compliment (and I always like Lats). All in all, I think he is quite comparable to Latendresse. Latendresse never really put it together though, and McCarron still has a chance to.
Latendresse never had a mean streak and never understood those who were expecting toughness out of him. McCarron, on the other hand, thrives on body checks. He told me: "I like to have the Lucic mentality where I'll beat the crap out of you if you touch the puck."

McCarron says that the US program "definitely takes away a part of (his) game" but adds that his "skills have come a long way with the program".

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06-14-2013, 12:44 PM
  #373
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That's a tough pick..

I want to say I'd go with Burakowsky only because I wasn't enamored with Zykov's performance against the Mooseheads.. but really only 3 players all play-offs played good against the Mooseheads; Poirier, Andrighetto and Kucherov.

That being said.. Zykov might play more the style we enjoy. I'd probably go with Burakowsky since there is no KHL risk factor.
Scouts don't seem worried one bit about Zykov going to the KHL.

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06-14-2013, 12:48 PM
  #374
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Latendresse never had a mean streak and never understood those who were expecting toughness out of him. McCarron, on the other hand, thrives on body checks. He told me: "I like to have the Lucic mentality where I'll beat the crap out of you if you touch the puck."

McCarron says that the US program "definitely takes away a part of (his) game" but adds that his "skills have come a long way with the program".
There isn't much Prust in McCarron, he relies on his gigantic frame and sheer power to play the game, wich is great, but that's not Prust game at all.

To me Hartman is more Prust like, but with actual hockey skills. Maybe he won't take on heavy weight like Prust though.

And it's great to hear that from McCarron, when did he say that?

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06-14-2013, 01:05 PM
  #375
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This year might as well be the draft where Bergevin and Timmins attempt to get more grit and character into the system.That means no kid picked under 6'0 180.Why not try to bulk up and get the balance we really need? How many here recall the Habs teams of the 80's and how physical they were? Teams would come to the Forum and leave black and blue, and we still were in the top 6 year after year.There was a balance of skill, toughness and character throughout the whole lineup and it's been 20 years since we've had such a balance.It's time to make the right changes.

I would like to see more Mike McPhee and Sergio Mommesso type wingers, a C like Kirk Muller, a D man like Craig Ludwig and Odelein.Size on all lines and D pairings.Not indiscriminate size, but kids that can play in the NHL with enough hockey sense and skating to stick around.Unless a pure skill package falls into out lap on draft day, Timmins et al ought to pick the best kid with the most sandpaper and size.Young warriors who love to compete and won't leave you baffled with their disappearing ways.

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