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Maybe Torts Wasn't the Problem

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06-14-2013, 10:00 AM
  #351
Thesensation19
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With all that said... Torts had many issues.

Lundqvist faced a ton a ton a ton of shots every game, every week, every season every year. That I blame on our system. Its fine to block shots but its not okay to let a team shoot so much! You cant win that way. Or expect to. Especially the quality of shots we allow. Terrible.

We did not have many shots. And when we did, we didnt have many quality shots. Our offense as a whole was not creative and so predictable. In the end, it just wasnt smart hockey. You had guys dumping several times a game, which is fine BUT WHY IS NO ONE CHASING! Why are dumping in practically any situation and dont see that we have no help for another.

Our PP proves we have no creativity, we have no hockey smarts. On a man up, Tortorella cant even force his players or find players to move and keep a dynamic PP going. No! Instead, pass to the point. Pass back to the man. No one is moving unless you have the puck. That is not a successful PP. Look at the best PPs in the league. Pittsburgh. Everyone is cycling, with or without the puck. Everyone is looking for space and making room for passes. There confusing the D and their puttin in easy goals because of it. Make it easy for yourselves. I blame Torts for this. After a few years no change?

And when we do score a PP goal or have a good 2 minute advantage (rare) its because people are moving and he puts in someone in front of the net. Cally or Boyle will cause havoc one PP and we score. The next 5, he takes them off that role. WTF

I also did not like how much Torts knew so little of his opponents and own team. As a coach, and looking at some of the best coaches of all sports. They know everything. They know everyones schedules, they know everyones name and nickname. They know the reserves or AHL squad by heart practically. They know the opponent like it was their brother.

So there were changes that I wanted to see, but I still think it could have worked with Torts as coach. But Sather hurt us badly again.
Torts best quality was no nonsense. He really had a say in the office and he made sure people had no excuses. But I think Sather got sick of him and Dolan too.

I think Dolan is still mad about what Torts said in the media about him lol You all know Dolan likes to keep a tight lid on everything.


I like all the possibilities. Even the thought of Messier wouldbe exciting though not ideal.

Out of all the top possibilities so far... I like Ruff. Vigneault has been successful but he adopted a really strong team (far more talent than the Rangers) and I hear his Zone Line changing gets read easily by the opponent. I also think the division he was in was very easy compared to what he will get here. Yet, the zone matching has always been successful for him. He loves stats and innovation. Adopting the Rangers talent would be what hes experienced with alongside experience with the big city media.

I like Ruff because he is very systematic. When he had the talent (like the Rangers do) he really showed great success. 90% of the playoffs he missed was because his top goalie was hurt or left. Coaching lundqvist must be similar to Hasek and Miller. He has a much larger success rate with two different generations. The team he had with Drury and Briere and Campbell is not to differ from what we have now with our talent but a lot of young guys that he might not be so use to compared to others.

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06-14-2013, 10:09 AM
  #352
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Really can't wait to see what the excuses are next season. Gonna need to stock up on popcorn.
There won't be any excuses next season.

A new coach can't be expected to come in here and win Y1, atleast not if Richards is bought out and not replaced. It will take a year to steer the ship back in the right direction. Drill in a new system and get the player types Torts hated (puck moving D's).

We should be expected to be a mid-team in the East, as good as any team behind Boston and Pittsburgh really (I don't think we realistically should be able to challenge Pittsburgh during the regular season unless they get injury problems etc).

We should be a little bit more entertaining than under Torts. And as the team is allowed to pass the puck to each other again, the power play should graduately become better.

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06-14-2013, 10:15 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
There won't be any excuses next season.

A new coach can't be expected to come in here and win Y1
That is pure comedic gold. I'd venture to say the coach killers on this board will not agree with you.

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06-14-2013, 10:29 AM
  #354
stan the caddy
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
That is pure comedic gold. I'd venture to say the coach killers on this board will not agree with you.
What a shocker. The fans that placed all the blame on Tortorella will set the bar really low for next season that way they don't feel stupid when the team performs similarly with a different coach.

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06-14-2013, 10:35 AM
  #355
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I remember Torts was heavily criticized in 2009-10 during his first season here, with some calling for him to be fired, even though he was just hired and there were obvious personnel issues. "Torts sucks, he sent down Gilroy!" "Why did he put Kotalik on the 4th line?" "How could he bench Lisin for an entire game?" Eventually the fans wised up and realized Sather was issue, and later that year the "Fire Sather" rally was held.

I have to imagine there will be some fans who will be calling for the new coach's head almost immediately if the offense doesn't improve.

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06-14-2013, 10:36 AM
  #356
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What a shocker. The fans that placed all the blame on Tortorella will set the bar really low for next season that way they don't feel stupid when the team performs similarly with a different coach.
Didn't that happen last coaching change ? Torts went 38-33 his first full season, missed the playoffs. Renney was 44-26 his first full season, lost in round one.

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06-14-2013, 10:42 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I remember Torts was heavily criticized in 2009-10 during his first season here, with some calling for him to be fired, even though he was just hired and there were obvious personnel issues. "Torts sucks, he sent down Gilroy!" "Why did he put Kotalik on the 4th line?" "How could he bench Lisin for an entire game?" Eventually the fans wised up and realized Sather was issue, and later that year the "Fire Sather" rally was held.

I have to imagine there will be some fans who will be calling for the new coach's head almost immediately if the offense doesn't improve.
Yea, but where did that go? Expectations have risen faster than the quality of the personnel over these past 3 years.

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06-14-2013, 10:48 AM
  #358
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Didn't that happen last coaching change ? Torts went 38-33 his first full season, missed the playoffs. Renney was 44-26 his first full season, lost in round one.
Yea, and Renney was just another scapegoat.

The team was going through a ton of growing pains in Torts first full year. Remember how bad MDZ was in his own end? People think he stinks now, he's a hundred times better than what he was.

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06-14-2013, 10:49 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yea, but where did that go? Expectations have risen faster than the quality of the personnel over these past 3 years.
Definitely, and it's unfair to the new coach to hold such high expectations if improvements to the roster are not made.

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06-14-2013, 10:53 AM
  #360
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Definitely, and it's unfair to the new coach to hold such high expectations if improvements to the roster are not made.
Just like it was unfair to blame the previous coach for not taking them to the finals with a flawed roster. The expectations were unreasonable.

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06-14-2013, 11:46 AM
  #361
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when the bruins swept the pens, i thought this too. maybe the rangers aren't as screwed with torts as we thought. but, if it's true that the players feel he's a roadblock, then i'm fine with getting rid of him.

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06-14-2013, 12:39 PM
  #362
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when the bruins swept the pens, i thought this too. maybe the rangers aren't as screwed with torts as we thought. but, if it's true that the players feel he's a roadblock, then i'm fine with getting rid of him.
Outside of Richards, not one player on the roster has been to the NHL finals. So, what the hell do they know about whats a roadblock and what isn't?

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06-14-2013, 12:48 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Outside of Richards, not one player on the roster has been to the NHL finals. So, what the hell do they know about whats a roadblock and what isn't?
Asham too. And most of them went to the conference finals last season.

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06-14-2013, 12:58 PM
  #364
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Tortorella showed a clear inability to adapt to the team he was given this year. You can blame the shortened season if you like, but over 48 games virtually nothing changed in his strategy. The PP was an abomination, and it's ineffectiveness was an issue throughout his tenure here. At some point you have to stop blaming the pieces he had at his disposal and realize he just couldn't implement a proper strategy on the PP. Edmonton had he 3rd best PP in the NHL in 2011-12, and can anyone say they had a conventional PPQB at their disposal?

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06-14-2013, 01:09 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Tortorella showed a clear inability to adapt to the team he was given this year. You can blame the shortened season if you like, but over 48 games virtually nothing changed in his strategy. The PP was an abomination, and it's ineffectiveness was an issue throughout his tenure here. At some point you have to stop blaming the pieces he had at his disposal and realize he just couldn't implement a proper strategy on the PP. Edmonton had he 3rd best PP in the NHL in 2011-12, and can anyone say they had a conventional PPQB at their disposal?
They had Nuge working the half-wall and that PP was wildly unpredictable for the opposition due to few scouting report books on him. The Rangers also have no one close to that talent and creativity level.

IMO, most coaches don't really change their system a lot, I am not so sure about the adaption problems. Torts always line juggled, they were never fixed in. That's why you see a lot of players saying in interviews to follow the system. IMO Bruins this year didn't change their system at all. It's very tough for coach to drastically change a system in games.

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06-14-2013, 02:43 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
There won't be any excuses next season.

A new coach can't be expected to come in here and win Y1, atleast not if Richards is bought out and not replaced. It will take a year to steer the ship back in the right direction. Drill in a new system and get the player types Torts hated (puck moving D's).

We should be expected to be a mid-team in the East, as good as any team behind Boston and Pittsburgh really (I don't think we realistically should be able to challenge Pittsburgh during the regular season unless they get injury problems etc).

We should be a little bit more entertaining than under Torts. And as the team is allowed to pass the puck to each other again, the power play should graduately become better.
If the personnel is good enough, as many seem to believe, why would it take llonger than 80 games for the players to understand the system?

There are not that many different systems and all of the of the players have probably some experience in all of the systems.

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06-14-2013, 02:47 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Tortorella showed a clear inability to adapt to the team he was given this year. You can blame the shortened season if you like, but over 48 games virtually nothing changed in his strategy. The PP was an abomination, and it's ineffectiveness was an issue throughout his tenure here. At some point you have to stop blaming the pieces he had at his disposal and realize he just couldn't implement a proper strategy on the PP. Edmonton had he 3rd best PP in the NHL in 2011-12, and can anyone say they had a conventional PPQB at their disposal?
I will say that with a man advantage I will take Edmonton's forwards every single time when compared to the Rangers.

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06-14-2013, 03:15 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
There won't be any excuses next season.

A new coach can't be expected to come in here and win Y1, atleast not if Richards is bought out and not replaced. It will take a year to steer the ship back in the right direction. Drill in a new system and get the player types Torts hated (puck moving D's).

We should be expected to be a mid-team in the East, as good as any team behind Boston and Pittsburgh really (I don't think we realistically should be able to challenge Pittsburgh during the regular season unless they get injury problems etc).

We should be a little bit more entertaining than under Torts. And as the team is allowed to pass the puck to each other again, the power play should graduately become better.
At best we will become a Renney's Rangers, in other words.

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06-14-2013, 04:32 PM
  #369
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Outside of Richards, not one player on the roster has been to the NHL finals. So, what the hell do they know about whats a roadblock and what isn't?
cup champs: richards, asham

conn smythe winner: richards

cup finalists: richards, asham, powe

2X conference finalists: richards, clowe

1X conference finalist: richards, asham, powe, clowe, boyle, callahan, hagelin, kreider, stepan, del zotto, girardi, staal, mcdonagh, stralman, biron, lundqvist

world cup gold medalist: richards

olympic gold medalist: lundqvist

WJC gold medalists: stepan, kreider

WJCU18 silver medalist: mcdonagh

WJC bronze medalist: kreider

CCHA champions: hagelin

NCAA champions: kreider

just some notable accomplishments by some of our players. quite a few of them know what a championship is like (whether NHL or not) and im sure these guys could identify a road block.

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06-14-2013, 04:34 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Tortorella showed a clear inability to adapt to the team he was given this year. You can blame the shortened season if you like, but over 48 games virtually nothing changed in his strategy. The PP was an abomination, and it's ineffectiveness was an issue throughout his tenure here. At some point you have to stop blaming the pieces he had at his disposal and realize he just couldn't implement a proper strategy on the PP. Edmonton had he 3rd best PP in the NHL in 2011-12, and can anyone say they had a conventional PPQB at their disposal?
RNH and Schultz (as bad as he was at ES, he did look very, very good on the PP).

Still, the PP should be a lot better than it is.

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06-14-2013, 04:37 PM
  #371
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RNH and Schultz (as bad as he was at ES, he did look very, very good on the PP).

Still, the PP should be a lot better than it is.
im sure McD and moore could thrive on the PP...too bad he torts didnt give them much time

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06-14-2013, 07:38 PM
  #372
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cup champs: richards, asham

conn smythe winner: richards

cup finalists: richards, asham, powe

2X conference finalists: richards, clowe

1X conference finalist: richards, asham, powe, clowe, boyle, callahan, hagelin, kreider, stepan, del zotto, girardi, staal, mcdonagh, stralman, biron, lundqvist

world cup gold medalist: richards

olympic gold medalist: lundqvist

WJC gold medalists: stepan, kreider

WJCU18 silver medalist: mcdonagh

WJC bronze medalist: kreider

CCHA champions: hagelin

NCAA champions: kreider

just some notable accomplishments by some of our players. quite a few of them know what a championship is like (whether NHL or not) and im sure these guys could identify a road block.
I won a pee-wee championship. Why dont you go ahead and throw me up there too.

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06-14-2013, 07:58 PM
  #373
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Richards and Asham shouldn't be assumed to be on the team next year. So that leaves: .

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06-14-2013, 08:28 PM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
There won't be any excuses next season.

A new coach can't be expected to come in here and win Y1, atleast not if Richards is bought out and not replaced. It will take a year to steer the ship back in the right direction. Drill in a new system and get the player types Torts hated (puck moving D's).

We should be expected to be a mid-team in the East, as good as any team behind Boston and Pittsburgh really (I don't think we realistically should be able to challenge Pittsburgh during the regular season unless they get injury problems etc).

We should be a little bit more entertaining than under Torts. And as the team is allowed to pass the puck to each other again, the power play should graduately become better.
Wasn't the whole idea about changing coaches was that we were wasting the last couple of prime years in Hank's career?

Now we need a couple of seasons for the new coach to figure things out?

*sigh* I still think the franchise would've been further ahead to bring in a second assistant. Easiest and most elegant solution. I guess some franchise always have to do things the hard way.

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06-14-2013, 08:30 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I remember Torts was heavily criticized in 2009-10 during his first season here, with some calling for him to be fired, even though he was just hired and there were obvious personnel issues. "Torts sucks, he sent down Gilroy!" "Why did he put Kotalik on the 4th line?" "How could he bench Lisin for an entire game?" Eventually the fans wised up and realized Sather was issue, and later that year the "Fire Sather" rally was held.

I have to imagine there will be some fans who will be calling for the new coach's head almost immediately if the offense doesn't improve.
tell me if im wrong but the most un optomistic fans are ranger fans

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