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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 11.0

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Old
06-14-2013, 12:06 PM
  #376
yianik
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
De La Rose is fine.... at #55

There, you don't worry about him if his offensive game doesn't translate passed 3rd liner.

At 34, 36, you're looking at potential first rounders who fell.
All Im qualified to say is that De La Rose seems interesting to me and has qualities I like. I may be completely out to lunch thinking of him as a possible pick from our first 3 picks, but there it is.
As to only picking guys at 34 and 36 who fell from the 1st round, this year is a Wild West about who the top 30 are, especially from the teens on so I don't know if we will be able to say who fell out of the 1st round. Some forecast Morin going close to the top 10 but some dude averaged 11 pre-drafts and Morin was on average expected to go at 25.

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06-14-2013, 12:07 PM
  #377
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Latendresse never had a mean streak and never understood those who were expecting toughness out of him. McCarron, on the other hand, thrives on body checks. He told me: "I like to have the Lucic mentality where I'll beat the crap out of you if you touch the puck."

McCarron says that the US program "definitely takes away a part of (his) game" but adds that his "skills have come a long way with the program".
We know if he decides to go to London that Mr. Hunter will certainly not take away that part of his game. He'll turn into one big *******.

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06-14-2013, 12:09 PM
  #378
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I spoke to him at the Habs Combine.

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06-14-2013, 12:09 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Mag1328 View Post
Latendresse never had a mean streak and never understood those who were expecting toughness out of him. McCarron, on the other hand, thrives on body checks. He told me: "I like to have the Lucic mentality where I'll beat the crap out of you if you touch the puck."

McCarron says that the US program "definitely takes away a part of (his) game" but adds that his "skills have come a long way with the program".
He never had it, but even the small bit he had with his bodychecks, was totally wiped out after the DiMaio incident.

As far as McCarron's comment....I,m sorry, but if he REALLY said that the program is indeed taking away a part of his game, it HAS to mean that he's going in the OHL next year right? Right? Why in hell would a guy keep going with a program that doesn't perfect his art?

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06-14-2013, 12:10 PM
  #380
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I spoke to him at the Habs Combine.
Any chance we know if the Habs liked what they saw....or am I grasping at straws here...(is it the right expression...)

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06-14-2013, 12:22 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
As far as McCarron's comment....I,m sorry, but if he REALLY said that the program is indeed taking away a part of his game, it HAS to mean that he's going in the OHL next year right? Right? Why in hell would a guy keep going with a program that doesn't perfect his art?
He's leaving it either way. London or Western Michigan.

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06-14-2013, 12:22 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
And as I said, there's nothing about drafting McCarron at 25 that would preclude us from getting 2 skilled players at 34/36. We also used 3 of our first 4 picks last year on skilled forwards.

If you keep drafting average sized, skilled forwards, that's all your team is ever going to be made up of. And I'm not saying skilled forwards are a bad thing but, as we clearly saw in the playoffs first hand, you need a mix. They're hard to get in a trade and hard to get in free agency, so where else can you look? I don't see another avenue besides the draft.

People want an identity change in Montreal but aren't willing to take the risks to get there.



On the contrary, I would suggest that our scouting staff's weakness in being unable to identify and draft power forwards in any round as a reason for why we would need to reach higher for those guys than maybe some other teams who can draft power forwards in later rounds would have to. If our scouts aren't getting it done in that area (but are extremely proficient in other areas), why not take a chance on the consensus guy? Can't be worse than the nothing we've produced so far, and you still have your two other high picks in the second round to fall back on if he busts.
I don't see it as an inability in terms of not having the smarts to do it, I see it due to what I believe is our strict criteria in deciding what makes a player BPA. In Houles era skating was not considered critical and what we ended up with were big physical guys who couldn't skate, , big character guys who couldn't skate, big skilled guys who couldn't skate... and none of them did anything in the NHL because they couldn't skate. Different since then and we have lots of successful picks because TT and the team want skill and guys who can skate. Most important considerations in picking guys and helps in part explain our success, along with TT just being that good. Most of the time cant get big guys who can skate and have good skill where we draft and so because I don't think we value size and physicality much, we end up with smallish , fast and skilled.

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06-14-2013, 12:23 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
He's leaving it either way. London or Western Michigan.
Stop correcting me....I have enough of your superior intelligence...

I'd say that he will perfect it more with London than West Michigan though...

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06-14-2013, 12:23 PM
  #384
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He never had it, but even the small bit he had with his bodychecks, was totally wiped out after the DiMaio incident.

As far as McCarron's comment....I,m sorry, but if he REALLY said that the program is indeed taking away a part of his game, it HAS to mean that he's going in the OHL next year right? Right? Why in hell would a guy keep going with a program that doesn't perfect his art?
The USNTDP is over for McCarron but he still hasn't chosen between London and Western Michigan. He prefers to wait after the draft and discuss it with the team that will draft him.
In all fairness, when it comes to skating and puck handling abilities, McCarron was very grateful to the US program for the strides he made. He was previously referring to intimidation and fighting.

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06-14-2013, 12:25 PM
  #385
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The USNTDP is over for McCarron but he still hasn't chosen between London and Western Michigan. He prefers to wait after the draft and discuss it with the team that will draft him.
In all fairness, when it comes to skating and puck handling abilities, McCarron was very grateful to the US program for the strides he made. He was previously referring to intimidation and fighting.
I really have nothing with the US program as I'm a big fan of NCAA myself. Yet...when it comes to players who uses intimidation and fighting as one of their important tools...even if the NCAA did develop some players like that, the "route" is better at the Junior level. And yes, I was stupid for not realizing it that he was obviously leaving, but again, I'd prefer London over West Mich to really work on his "art".

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06-14-2013, 12:26 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
He never had it, but even the small bit he had with his bodychecks, was totally wiped out after the DiMaio incident.
I think there was a failing on the Habs' part as well of not putting Latendresse is a situation to succeed. He had the frame but not the tools to be a power forward, yet we kept trying to cram him into that role. He seemed to do much better in Minny where he was allowed to be who he was and not told to stand in front of the net or worry about hitting guys. I guess we'll never really know what he could have been with all his injuries.

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06-14-2013, 12:28 PM
  #387
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I think there was a failing on the Habs' part as well of not putting Latendresse is a situation to succeed. He had the frame but not the tools to be a power forward, yet we kept trying to cram him into that role. He seemed to do much better in Minny where he was allowed to be who he was and not told to stand in front of the net or worry about hitting guys. I guess we'll never really know what he could have been with all his injuries.
True. Made me laugh when I heard that MacLean/Murray thought he would have been more physical and would have gone more to the net.....Did they have no clue of what happened in Montreal and Minny? Clearly, Latendresse hated the body he had...would have preferred to be so like Desharnais or Ribeiro...

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06-14-2013, 12:31 PM
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I think there was a failing on the Habs' part as well of not putting Latendresse is a situation to succeed. He had the frame but not the tools to be a power forward, yet we kept trying to cram him into that role. He seemed to do much better in Minny where he was allowed to be who he was and not told to stand in front of the net or worry about hitting guys. I guess we'll never really know what he could have been with all his injuries.
I would not have had a problem with Latendresse if he didn't want to go around crushing people.. But he had to go to the net, bully or stand there. Any coach on any team is going to put him there and if he wants to be successful, he must do it.

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06-14-2013, 12:34 PM
  #389
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I would not have had a problem with Latendresse if he didn't want to go around crushing people.. But he had to go to the net, bully or stand there. Any coach on any team is going to put him there and if he wants to be successful, he must do it.
But Lats was pretty succesful in Minny....did go to the net but surely not enough as some would have wanted him to go. Was injured a lot though so it clearly slowed him down in the "paying the price" column. Anyway, enough of Lats...we are SURELY not implying that we want Timmins to draft another Lats....Unless you are about to tell me that this is how Mantha will turn out to be...

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06-14-2013, 12:37 PM
  #390
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This year might as well be the draft where Bergevin and Timmins attempt to get more grit and character into the system.That means no kid picked under 6'0 180.Why not try to bulk up and get the balance we really need? How many here recall the Habs teams of the 80's and how physical they were? Teams would come to the Forum and leave black and blue, and we still were in the top 6 year after year.There was a balance of skill, toughness and character throughout the whole lineup and it's been 20 years since we've had such a balance.It's time to make the right changes.

I would like to see more Mike McPhee and Sergio Mommesso type wingers, a C like Kirk Muller, a D man like Craig Ludwig and Odelein.Size on all lines and D pairings.Not indiscriminate size, but kids that can play in the NHL with enough hockey sense and skating to stick around.Unless a pure skill package falls into out lap on draft day, Timmins et al ought to pick the best kid with the most sandpaper and size.Young warriors who love to compete and won't leave you baffled with their disappearing ways.
With the exception that I would say kids with ... more sandpaper and size.. because as you have it and that maybe what is you mean, that sounds like skating and skill are complete afterthoughts, otherwise I really agree with you here. Still require good skating or slap with a Do Not Draft, and want skill, but also put value for size and physical play.


Last edited by yianik: 06-14-2013 at 12:50 PM. Reason: mispelled word
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06-14-2013, 12:37 PM
  #391
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I would not have had a problem with Latendresse if he didn't want to go around crushing people.. But he had to go to the net, bully or stand there. Any coach on any team is going to put him there and if he wants to be successful, he must do it.
Well let's face it, it would have been ideal if he did that but he didn't have to. No one asks Jason Spezza to stand in front of the net just because he's 6'4" - you play the guy to his strengths.

You can't force a guy to become a power forward if he doesn't have that make-up. Some guys have it and are trapped inside 5'8" bodies (Gallagher) and some guys don't and are trapped in Latendresse-sized bodies.

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06-14-2013, 12:38 PM
  #392
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Unless you are about to tell me that this is how Mantha will turn out to be...
I was just about to wonder out loud if Latendresse might be a good comparable for Mantha but I stopped myself...

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06-14-2013, 12:39 PM
  #393
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But Lats was pretty succesful in Minny....did go to the net but surely not enough as some would have wanted him to go. Was injured a lot though so it clearly slowed him down in the "paying the price" column. Anyway, enough of Lats...we are SURELY not implying that we want Timmins to draft another Lats....Unless you are about to tell me that this is how Mantha will turn out to be...
Latendresse wasn't a bad pick in the 2nd round.. Which is where Mantha becomes a not a bad pick.. at #55. He won't be there and so I won't lose any sleep over it. If anything, yes, Mantha is a lot like Latendresse except that Lats did, one upon a time, issue body checks. Mantha probably has the better shot and goal scoring sense than Latendresse, but vision and hands, Lats definitely has him beat.

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06-14-2013, 12:49 PM
  #394
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I was just about to wonder out loud if Latendresse might be a good comparable for Mantha but I stopped myself...
That might be the final nail on the coffin for whoever still wanted Mantha in the 1st...

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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Latendresse wasn't a bad pick in the 2nd round.. Which is where Mantha becomes a not a bad pick.. at #55. He won't be there and so I won't lose any sleep over it. If anything, yes, Mantha is a lot like Latendresse except that Lats did, one upon a time, issue body checks. Mantha probably has the better shot and goal scoring sense than Latendresse, but vision and hands, Lats definitely has him beat.
I will believe that people underestimate Mantha's hands and vision, especially the hands. And Lats did fall mainly due to his terrible skating. Which Mantha doesn't have as much trouble with. Hey, I saw Mantha fight once....did pretty good....Okay he might have fought a guy 5 inches smaller but he initiated it...

Okay, gotta go...have to work....

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06-14-2013, 12:53 PM
  #395
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I'm going to initiate some fights at Play-On! Halifax tomorrow.

The first lanky 6'4 french looking guy I see: "You suck, Mantha!"

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06-14-2013, 01:21 PM
  #396
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I don't know much about William Carrier, except for what I've read, but would he be someone that could be looked at with the second or third 2nd round pick? He seems to be the battler we need.

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06-14-2013, 01:36 PM
  #397
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I'm going to initiate some fights at Play-On! Halifax tomorrow.

The first lanky 6'4 french looking guy I see: "You suck, Mantha!"
How many times have you seen mantha play? Haha. Who would you like us to draft?

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06-14-2013, 02:02 PM
  #398
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How many times have you seen mantha play? Haha. Who would you like us to draft?
I read the draf thread every day, so I can fill in for this one.

"A lot"
"Burakowski"



Nailed it.

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06-14-2013, 02:03 PM
  #399
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I don't know much about William Carrier, except for what I've read, but would he be someone that could be looked at with the second or third 2nd round pick? He seems to be the battler we need.
Seems I'm the only Carrier fan around here....Big fan that is. Not 1st round, but DEFINITE 2nd round. And not 55 as he should be gone.

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06-14-2013, 02:08 PM
  #400
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Seems I'm the only Carrier fan around here....Big fan that is. Not 1st round, but DEFINITE 2nd round. And not 55 as he should be gone.
He's one of the most skilled and gifted guy in the Q this season, he's a tank also.

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