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How aggressive should we be with our cap and acquiring other teams "leftovers"

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Old
06-13-2013, 04:41 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Idea being that he's our first line C with Kane and Wheeler...or 2nd line C with Kane and whoever?

He'd almost have to be a second line center because Im really not sure how well he handles the tough Comp that our first line handles.
Either really. I'd like to see him get a bit 1st line time just to see if he can, but if need be playing with Kane and XXX would be great for both of them. Kane is a great goal scorer and Ribeiro is a great playmaker.

Also, a fairly weird/novel ideal would be to switch Little and Ladd to the 2nd line and put Kane and Ribeiro up on the 1st line, then put the 2nd line into the harder matchups. While breaking up LLW isn't great, making opponents choose between matching up against Kane and Ribeiro or Ladd and Little would be tough for them to do. Depending on whether we acquire a 1st line RW in the offseason, I also wouldn't mind a Kane Ribeiro XXX on the 1st line.

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06-13-2013, 04:42 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say www.behindthenet.ca

Or I imagine NHL.com has it as well.
Neither of them do, or I haven't been able to figure out how to tell/find them. Those are two sites I frequent a bit

edit: actually they have missed shots, but nothing else.

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06-13-2013, 05:11 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Lilina View Post
Neither of them do, or I haven't been able to figure out how to tell/find them. Those are two sites I frequent a bit

edit: actually they have missed shots, but nothing else.
I figured for sure they would have the time in the different zones tbh.

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06-13-2013, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Lilina View Post
Either really. I'd like to see him get a bit 1st line time just to see if he can, but if need be playing with Kane and XXX would be great for both of them. Kane is a great goal scorer and Ribeiro is a great playmaker.

Also, a fairly weird/novel ideal would be to switch Little and Ladd to the 2nd line and put Kane and Ribeiro up on the 1st line, then put the 2nd line into the harder matchups. While breaking up LLW isn't great, making opponents choose between matching up against Kane and Ribeiro or Ladd and Little would be tough for them to do. Depending on whether we acquire a 1st line RW in the offseason, I also wouldn't mind a Kane Ribeiro XXX on the 1st line.
I had considered that as well, as I think that it's mostly Little and Ladd that are responsible for the good two way play.

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06-13-2013, 05:24 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Lilina View Post
By the way, as long as we're talking about advanced stats, does anyone know where I can find player/team pass completion, time in offensive/defensive zone, shots on net/misses, etc?
No passes are tracked anywhere.
One of our bloggers at AIH was tracking them for the Jets just for fun, but we never got sufficient sample size for anything interesting.

Shots on net/misses are part of Corsi (which are pulled from nhl.com game reports and then placed together).
Both team, individual and the team's when the individual was on the ice can be found there.

Time in offensive zone isn't tracked officially anymore but if you turn Corsi into a percentage it's been shown to be pretty much the same if you have a at least a 20-30 game sample (larger the better).

If anyone ever has questions feel free to PM me or even easier is msg me on twitter (PM me if you want my twitter handle or you can find it on AIH in my articles).

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06-13-2013, 07:27 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
IIRC thrashers fans liked him but given how badly we won that trade they weren't too upset.
Who Peverly? Yeah, there's a reason our FO% has been below average since he left. Peverly was loved, but we got Wheels and Stuart out of that trade. I think both teams were very happy with that trade.

Someone can correct me but I thought I remembered something about the team having "passengers" around that time and it was speculated that it was Peverly. And then he was traded. Can't really remember too well though. Another Thrashers fan could chime in if they remember specifically.

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06-14-2013, 03:57 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by trebendan View Post
I'd like to see the Jets acquire Joel Ward from the Caps for a mid-level prospect.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/p...iance-buyouts/
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Washington Capitals

Joel Ward ($3 million cap hit in 2013-14)

I donít see any candidates for this summer, but Ward could be a buyout option in 2014. His $3 million salary is healthy money for a fringe third-line winger. Heís also 32 years old and has reached his ceiling.

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06-14-2013, 08:09 AM
  #83
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I still laugh at some of those contracts handed out two summers ago. Joel Ward, a 3rd liner, given 3 million on a 4 year deal. Scottie Upshall given 3.5 million on a 4 year deal. Ville Leino given 4.5 million for 6 years.

Some awful contracts were handed out that summer. The same may happen this summer given the talent pool is so thin. But, GM's will never learn.

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06-14-2013, 09:54 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
I still laugh at some of those contracts handed out two summers ago. Joel Ward, a 3rd liner, given 3 million on a 4 year deal. Scottie Upshall given 3.5 million on a 4 year deal. Ville Leino given 4.5 million for 6 years.

Some awful contracts were handed out that summer. The same may happen this summer given the talent pool is so thin. But, GM's will never learn.
Also considering the cap is the same as 2 summers ago...

But overpaid role-players is certainly a category where I think teams up against the cap will be looking to sell cheap. Pittsburgh really has no reason to keep Glass around at $1.1 million/year, for example.

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06-14-2013, 10:06 AM
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Great points, Gm0ney.

And, with a player like Dupuis... buyer beware on that one. He's 34, he's only ever performed the way he is now in Pittsburgh with Crosby the last 2 seasons. In my opinion, any team that gives him 4 million, which I think a team may, is crazy.

He may be worth that to Pittsburgh given the fit, but I I don't think he's worth that coin to 29 other teams. Classic case of a player who will possibly go somewhere else, be overpaid, and collect his career normal 30-40 points.

Maybe he stays in Pittsburgh on a cheap deal knowing how great the fit is. Or, he chases the $ as a UFA. We'll see.

If the Pens keep some of these guys and decide to deal Tyler Kennedy, I wouldn't mind getting in on that. He earned 2 million last season and is a RFA. Would possibly fit in well as a 3rd line RW here.

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06-14-2013, 10:07 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
Also considering the cap is the same as 2 summers ago...

But overpaid role-players is certainly a category where I think teams up against the cap will be looking to sell cheap. Pittsburgh really has no reason to keep Glass around at $1.1 million/year, for example.
We can bring back GST!!!

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
oh gahd.........

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06-14-2013, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
I still laugh at some of those contracts handed out two summers ago. Joel Ward, a 3rd liner, given 3 million on a 4 year deal. Scottie Upshall given 3.5 million on a 4 year deal. Ville Leino given 4.5 million for 6 years.

Some awful contracts were handed out that summer. The same may happen this summer given the talent pool is so thin. But, GM's will never learn.
I have a feeling there will be a ton of similarly bad contracts given out this year...

I have a feeling that players like Stalberg, MacArthur, Raymond, Clarkson, Boyes & Bickell will all land 2nd line money and I would bet against most of them producing.

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06-14-2013, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I have a feeling there will be a ton of similarly bad contracts given out this year...

I have a feeling that players like Stalberg, MacArthur, Raymond, Clarkson, Boyes & Bickell will all land 2nd line money and I would bet against most of them producing.
I think you're exactly right, truck. Most of those guys as UFA's may fetch 3.5-4.5 million.



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06-14-2013, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
I think you're exactly right, truck. Most of those guys as UFA's may fetch 3.5-4.5 million.


Stalberg and Brunner are the two UFA 2nd/3rd line tweeners that I see as most likely to live up to that dollar figure. It'll be interesting to see what kind of money they command.

The others... look out.

Apart from them, there is Horton and Roy who will probably earn upwards of 5MM a piece and a bunch of good players on the wrong side of 33.

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06-14-2013, 10:19 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Great points, Gm0ney.

And, with a player like Dupuis... buyer beware on that one. He's 34, he's only ever performed the way he is now in Pittsburgh with Crosby the last 2 seasons. In my opinion, any team that gives him 4 million, which I think a team may, is crazy.

He may be worth that to Pittsburgh given the fit, but I I don't think he's worth that coin to 29 other teams. Classic case of a player who will possibly go somewhere else, be overpaid, and collect his career normal 30-40 points.

Maybe he stays in Pittsburgh on a cheap deal knowing how great the fit is. Or, he chases the $ as a UFA. We'll see.

If the Pens keep some of these guys and decide to deal Tyler Kennedy, I wouldn't mind getting in on that. He earned 2 million last season and is a RFA. Would possibly fit in well as a 3rd line RW here.
I would give Dupuis $10M over 3 years, no doubt. I think he'd be a really good fit with Kane and either Burm or Scheif on the 2nd line. I would also LOVE to get Kennedy on this team. I think he's a pretty elite #3RW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
We can bring back GST!!!
.
oh gahd.........
I'd also have no problem with getting TGlass back, but I'm just fine with James Wright as the #4LW as well. Can't have both and give either of them 3rd line minutes though.

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06-14-2013, 10:40 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by jetsfan101 View Post
I'd also have no problem with getting TGlass back, but I'm just fine with James Wright as the #4LW as well. Can't have both and give either of them 3rd line minutes though.
I was being sarcastic... I don't miss the 5v5 GST PK special.

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06-14-2013, 10:47 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I was being sarcastic... I don't miss the 5v5 GST PK special.
Sorry, I knew that, I shouldn't have written 'also'. 'I'd have no problem...' is what it should say. I think Thorburn was the big problem with that line. He's not an NHLer. Glass and Slater are both nice 4th liners, but they were miscast as a 3rd line last season.

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06-14-2013, 10:52 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by jetsfan101 View Post
Sorry, I knew that, I shouldn't have written 'also'. 'I'd have no problem...' is what it should say. I think Thorburn was the big problem with that line. He's not an NHLer. Glass and Slater are both nice 4th liners, but they were miscast as a 3rd line last season.
I don't think any of them are particularly special 4th liners.

I do agree that Thorburn is the weakest link, but IMO they all kinda suck.

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06-14-2013, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I don't think any of them are particularly special 4th liners.

I do agree that Thorburn is the weakest link, but IMO they all kinda suck.
Special, maybe not. But I'd call them 2/3's of a league average 4th line. Nothing wrong with that.

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06-14-2013, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jetsfan101 View Post
Sorry, I knew that, I shouldn't have written 'also'. 'I'd have no problem...' is what it should say. I think Thorburn was the big problem with that line. He's not an NHLer. Glass and Slater are both nice 4th liners, but they were miscast as a 3rd line last season.
All three of Slater, Glass and Wright are decent 4th liners, with the exception that no one in that group has the ability to push the play forward out of the D-zone, into the O-zone and keep it there.

You don't need everyone to do all things, especially on a 4th line where all the players are below avg NHLers anyways... but it would be good to have one at least.

Some guys like this on their team are:
Cracknell (STL), Smith (DAL), Butler (NSH), Frolik (CHI), etc.

I think Tangradi could be that guy. At first I completely wrote him off as even NHL calibre but he picked it up and improved as the season went on. As I started running stats on him I came to realize he's similar to lesser version of Burmi (results-wise, not style obv).
Burmi skill wise and every result and skill other than points is a 2nd liner. This places Burmi as a high tier 3rd line player IMO. Tangradi is the same thing but just one step behind. He's a 3rd liner in skill and ability to outplay his opponents, but needs to sit on the 4th line until his offense comes together.
This is all in "optimal" situations where you have someone good enough to be on the higher lines in the meanwhile.

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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I don't think any of them are particularly special 4th liners.

I do agree that Thorburn is the weakest link, but IMO they all kinda suck.
Meh most 4th liners suck compared to the average NHL player.
Having one guy who can push the play on there with any one of those other three would be the real difference.
Tangradi and Burmistrov succeeded at that with our 4th line last season.


Last edited by garret9: 06-14-2013 at 11:11 AM.
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06-14-2013, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
All three of Slater, Glass and Wright are decent 4th liners, with the exception that no one in that group has the ability to push the play forward out of the D-zone, into the O-zone and keep it there.

You don't need everyone to do all things, especially on a 4th line where all the players are below avg NHLers anyways... but it would be good to have one at least.

Some guys like this on their team are:
Cracknell (STL), Smith (DAL), Butler (NSH), Frolik (CHI), etc.

I think Tangradi could be that guy. At first I completely wrote him off as even NHL calibre but he picked it up and improved as the season went on. As I started running stats on him I came to realize he's similar to lesser version of Burmi (results-wise, not style obv).
Burmi skill wise and every result and skill other than points is a 2nd liner. This places Burmi as a high tier 3rd line player IMO. Tangradi is the same thing but just one step behind. He's a 3rd liner in skill and ability to outplay his opponents, but needs to sit on the 4th line until his offense comes together.
This is all in "optimal" situations where you have someone good enough to be on the higher lines in the meanwhile.


Meh most 4th liners suck compared to the average NHL player.
Having one guy who can push the play on there with any one of those other three would be the real difference.
Tangradi and Burmistrov succeeded at that with our 4th line last season.
So what you're getting at is either Wellwood or Tangradi should join Wright and Slater on the 4th line. I could get behind that.

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06-14-2013, 12:46 PM
  #97
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I really think we need to build a rock solid 3rd line this off season. Our first is pretty solid, as we saw, and Wright, Tangradi, Slater, Peluso, etc. form the basis for a pretty reliable 4th line. Second line I'll address below...

(and if anyone has a leftover goalie, well, I've been quite clear about how I feel in regards to our buddy Ondrej)

I really do think Schief and Burmi could be the linemates for Kane, (and I think trading Burmi this young when his potential is still there would be a horrible mistake. We can either win big keeping him, which is the hope, or hold onto a player who is 1/2 of our bottom 6 many nights (the other 1/2 being Antro), who is solid on the PK, and at making a nothing line into one that at least the coach can trust to eat some minutes while LLW rest) and I think that we could have a WAY better 2nd line this year, setup like that, then we did last year. Plus it gives them a chance to find a bit of what LLW have got, in a chemistry that see's them play better than the sum of their parts. It's a combination of 3 different, yet complimentary play styles. A guy with pretty good sense and vision in Schief, a guy who hits everything, skates like a rocket, and shoots 100 pucks a game in Kane, and a guy who provides the defensive responsibility (as Little does in LLW), and some more solid possession ability to the line. It just makes so much sense.

Burmi shouldn't have been in the NHL all 3 of his years, and that's hurt him, but that doesn't mean the adjustment can't be made. Trading him off, at 21, IMO, would be like trading my $1500 guitar on Kijiji for cheap, because when somebody plays it poorly, or when if I play with other guys who can't play their instruments, it doesn't sound good. That doesn't make any sense.

When you want to drive fast, and you have a fast car, you don't trade it in for one that is an automatic. You take the time and learn to drive standard.

At 23 or 24? the trade looks a lot smarter, but the amount of guys who break out by 21 is SO low, that he's already above the curve.

You can't preach building through the draft and then trade a 21 year old NHL regular who is a rock solid defensive and possession player, with solid 2nd line upside (and with other 2nd line players you can make the argument he'd already be there), for anything less than an absolutely disgusting overpayment. Burmi, 21, with value now, and solid upside, is the kind of player we should be acquiring, not trading away.

I may be biased, but that's how I see it.

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06-14-2013, 01:02 PM
  #98
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I really think we need to build a rock solid 3rd line this off season. Our first is pretty solid, as we saw, and Wright, Tangradi, Slater, Peluso, etc. form the basis for a pretty reliable 4th line. Second line I'll address below...

(and if anyone has a leftover goalie, well, I've been quite clear about how I feel in regards to our buddy Ondrej)

I really do think Schief and Burmi could be the linemates for Kane, (and I think trading Burmi this young when his potential is still there would be a horrible mistake. We can either win big keeping him, which is the hope, or hold onto a player who is 1/2 of our bottom 6 many nights (the other 1/2 being Antro), who is solid on the PK, and at making a nothing line into one that at least the coach can trust to eat some minutes while LLW rest) and I think that we could have a WAY better 2nd line this year, setup like that, then we did last year. Plus it gives them a chance to find a bit of what LLW have got, in a chemistry that see's them play better than the sum of their parts. It's a combination of 3 different, yet complimentary play styles. A guy with pretty good sense and vision in Schief, a guy who hits everything, skates like a rocket, and shoots 100 pucks a game in Kane, and a guy who provides the defensive responsibility (as Little does in LLW), and some more solid possession ability to the line. It just makes so much sense.

Burmi shouldn't have been in the NHL all 3 of his years, and that's hurt him, but that doesn't mean the adjustment can't be made. Trading him off, at 21, IMO, would be like trading my $1500 guitar on Kijiji for cheap, because when somebody plays it poorly, or when if I play with other guys who can't play their instruments, it doesn't sound good. That doesn't make any sense.

When you want to drive fast, and you have a fast car, you don't trade it in for one that is an automatic. You take the time and learn to drive standard.

At 23 or 24? the trade looks a lot smarter, but the amount of guys who break out by 21 is SO low, that he's already above the curve.

You can't preach building through the draft and then trade a 21 year old NHL regular who is a rock solid defensive and possession player, with solid 2nd line upside (and with other 2nd line players you can make the argument he'd already be there), for anything less than an absolutely disgusting overpayment. Burmi, 21, with value now, and solid upside, is the kind of player we should be acquiring, not trading away.

I may be biased, but that's how I see it.
I agree. 100%.

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06-14-2013, 01:10 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I have a feeling there will be a ton of similarly bad contracts given out this year...

I have a feeling that players like Stalberg, MacArthur, Raymond, Clarkson, Boyes & Bickell will all land 2nd line money and I would bet against most of them producing.
That's the entire point of this thread. I think we should acquire players eligible for buyout, or rights to players, rather than hit free agency. We may come out completely empty handed if we try free agency.

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06-14-2013, 01:13 PM
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That's the entire point of this thread. I think we should acquire players eligible for buyout, or rights to players, rather than hit free agency. We may come out completely empty handed if we try free agency.
I think that's an absolute possibility...and I will maintain what I said at the trade deadline, I'd rather nothing happen Chevy make a bad trade or in this case commit to a terrible contract.

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