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Bryzgalov: To Buy Out or Not To Buy Out...That is the Question (Updates in post #1)

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:56 AM
  #101
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You wouldn't take a chance on Luongo? If he gets bought out, he could realistically take a smaller contract due to the fact that he is already getting paid. He could be had for 2-3mil per year if he wanted to ensure himself getting starting minutes and some security.

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06-14-2013, 08:59 AM
  #102
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Willing to give Mason a shot, he's still very young but I would sinceraly explore options with Roberto is Vancouver buys him out. It would have to be short term and for the right price but I still think the talent is there.

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06-14-2013, 09:09 AM
  #103
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Guarantee we sign Luongo if he's bought out.

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06-14-2013, 09:20 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
why not?

Luongo is a good goalie on a short-term deal
The pendulum has just swung too far back on Luongo as it likely has on Bryzgalov. Neither are ever going to justify their current contracts, but they are both excellent value pick-ups for their respective future teams.

Luongo on a 3 years, ~ 12 million dollar deal is an extremely good option for a team like Philadelphia.

Allows us to work on developing Mason without the full pressure of being the man instantly.

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06-14-2013, 09:55 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
The pendulum has just swung too far back on Luongo as it likely has on Bryzgalov. Neither are ever going to justify their current contracts, but they are both excellent value pick-ups for their respective future teams.

Luongo on a 3 years, ~ 12 million dollar deal is an extremely good option for a team like Philadelphia.

Allows us to work on developing Mason without the full pressure of being the man instantly.
I wouldn't want that. If we are going with Mason we should go with Mason. Get a competent backup, but not a guy like Luongo that will likely get a somewhat substantial contract and could lead to another "riding the hot hand" type of situation and another quagmire at the end of the year (re-sign Mason long term or let him walk and go with Luongo for the next couple years).

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06-14-2013, 10:10 AM
  #106
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I'm not a Bryz hater, but just from a sports perspective, how big a disaster has this signing been? When you you look at the organization, the individual, the circus surrounding everything....it's not Albert Haynesworth, but it's still up there. It's getting annoying that the Flyers are always punchlines when it comes to goalies. Part of it is that the media and people in general are lazy, but there really is a reason for the reputation.

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06-14-2013, 10:13 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I wouldn't want that. If we are going with Mason we should go with Mason. Get a competent backup, but not a guy like Luongo that will likely get a somewhat substantial contract and could lead to another "riding the hot hand" type of situation and another quagmire at the end of the year (re-sign Mason long term or let him walk and go with Luongo for the next couple years).
I think Mason has a 1 year contract. That is enough for him to show that he is capable of being an nhl starting goalie or enough money to be a quality backup. if he does well he is still an RFA.

I think getting Luongo is a smart move especially at a reasonable contract because he could either serve well as a starter or as a trade asset. But i have a feeling too many teams will be intrested in him that he is going to have his pick of the litter and will probably make 5 mill a year for 4 years. Too much if you ask me.

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06-14-2013, 10:20 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I'm not a Bryz hater, but just from a sports perspective, how big a disaster has this signing been? When you you look at the organization, the individual, the circus surrounding everything....it's not Albert Haynesworth, but it's still up there. It's getting annoying that the Flyers are always punchlines when it comes to goalies. Part of it is that the media and people in general are lazy, but there really is a reason for the reputation.
Bob winning the Vezina is not going to help much either....we really are the laughing stock of the league when it comes to goalies. Maybe it's exaggerated somewhat but not by much. It's one constant soap opera.

Again I don't think Bryz is horrible although his 1st year you could say that...he's just average. I also question his desire to excel in Philly or for that matter anywhere else. I don't think he has the fire to be anything but mediocre anymore. Anytime he talks he sounds like he's not having fun and is just doing a "job." I would like a goalie on this team that has more fire and motivation. We had it in Bob and pissed it away to accomodate a malcontent with an onerous contract...

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06-14-2013, 10:38 AM
  #109
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Luongo, Thomas, or another experienced veteran goaltender on a 1-3 yr deal imho for Mason to look up to and help his development.

EDIT: I also think Luongo would get along well with the guys...

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06-14-2013, 10:45 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I wouldn't want that. If we are going with Mason we should go with Mason. Get a competent backup, but not a guy like Luongo that will likely get a somewhat substantial contract and could lead to another "riding the hot hand" type of situation and another quagmire at the end of the year (re-sign Mason long term or let him walk and go with Luongo for the next couple years).
Steve Mason hasn't shown anything in years that indicates that he will ever be a starter again in the NHL. His strong play at the end of this year might have been the worst scenario for the Flyers if their management thinks like you do. Since his rookie year, he never had a better save percentage than 0.901 with Columbus and never had a sub-3.00 GAA. In his limited time with the Jackets this year he put up 0.899 & 2.95.

If the Flyers have the option to grab Luongo off of a buyout, they have to take it. The best thing for Mason is to be in competition with someone; he lost that battle to Bobrovsky but, when the ball was fully in his court in Columbus, he failed miserably.

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06-14-2013, 10:46 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I think Mason has a 1 year contract. That is enough for him to show that he is capable of being an nhl starting goalie or enough money to be a quality backup. if he does well he is still an RFA.

I think getting Luongo is a smart move especially at a reasonable contract because he could either serve well as a starter or as a trade asset. But i have a feeling too many teams will be intrested in him that he is going to have his pick of the litter and will probably make 5 mill a year for 4 years. Too much if you ask me.
I think you are misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying that Mason should get more than a year to prove his worth. I am saying that if Luongo is signed, especially to a multi-year deal with a somewhat substantial cap hit (3-4 million), it could create problems. Such as: Mason slumps a little and Luongo takes the job. Then you never really get a chance to allow Mason to prove himself and at the end of the year you are looking at Mason, who maybe lost the job early and simply out played by Luongo, wanting a new contract. Do you give it to him or let him walk and be faced with the goalie search starting all over in two years with Luongo's departure? Or do you sign him based on a smaller sample size and get stuck with a guy that didn't really earn the contract because Luongo outplayed him. To me, signing Luongo uneccessarily complicates things, unless it is on a very cap friendly deal.

Basically, if we are going to give Mason the shot to be our franchise goalie, he should be given a full shot at it. Luongo, I think has enough left to be a starter. Without question. Bringing him in, IMO, would not give Mason the complete shot I think he (and the organization) needs to make their decision. If at the end of the year Mason didn't perform, let him walk and look for a goalie next year. If he does, re-sign him to a real deal and get a backup.

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06-14-2013, 10:47 AM
  #112
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It is really criminal that we continue to have a goalie debate....year after effin year

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06-14-2013, 11:22 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Steve Mason hasn't shown anything in years that indicates that he will ever be a starter again in the NHL. His strong play at the end of this year might have been the worst scenario for the Flyers if their management thinks like you do. Since his rookie year, he never had a better save percentage than 0.901 with Columbus and never had a sub-3.00 GAA. In his limited time with the Jackets this year he put up 0.899 & 2.95.

If the Flyers have the option to grab Luongo off of a buyout, they have to take it. The best thing for Mason is to be in competition with someone; he lost that battle to Bobrovsky but, when the ball was fully in his court in Columbus, he failed miserably.
I don't necessarily think he is going to be the solution, I am just saying that if the Flyers want to see if he can be the solution, they should give him every opportunity to do so. Bringing in Luongo does not do that.

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06-14-2013, 11:49 AM
  #114
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on the right deal I have no problem bringing in Loungo off the buyout. you are going to want someone reliable in case Mason faulters. I am not confident that Mason can be the guy. The sample size was way to small this past season to convince me otherwise.
Should he be given a shot at the no. 1? absolutely but you will need a backup plan. Not some cheap scrub.

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I don't necessarily think he is going to be the solution, I am just saying that if the Flyers want to see if he can be the solution, they should give him every opportunity to do so. Bringing in Luongo does not do that.
Not sure I agree, if you think Loungo can help the team and the price is right it cannot hurt. Sure you want to see if Mason can be the guy, but at the same time you need someone reliable in case Mason falters.

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06-14-2013, 11:55 AM
  #115
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I don't necessarily think he is going to be the solution, I am just saying that if the Flyers want to see if he can be the solution, they should give him every opportunity to do so. Bringing in Luongo does not do that.
Do you seriously want to hand the reins over to a guy who has only one full year (2009) as a starter of a save percentage above 0.901 and a goals against below 3.00?

From what I have seen from the Flyers' management, they want to win; they don't want to test the waters with someone who may be a capable starter... hell, it's the exact reason why Bryz was brought it when the Flyers still had Bobrovsky.

The reason that the Bryz experiment failed is because the Flyers misjudged how he could handle playing in Philly. By all accounts, Luongo is a great lockerroom guy and has played in a high pressure city and been successful.

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06-14-2013, 12:31 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Steve Mason hasn't shown anything in years that indicates that he will ever be a starter again in the NHL. His strong play at the end of this year might have been the worst scenario for the Flyers if their management thinks like you do. Since his rookie year, he never had a better save percentage than 0.901 with Columbus and never had a sub-3.00 GAA. In his limited time with the Jackets this year he put up 0.899 & 2.95.

If the Flyers have the option to grab Luongo off of a buyout, they have to take it. The best thing for Mason is to be in competition with someone; he lost that battle to Bobrovsky but, when the ball was fully in his court in Columbus, he failed miserably.
I think you're being too hard on Mason. Under Howson, that was maybe the worst run team in sports. He was on terrible teams year after year. It was a culture of losing and inept people. No one young goalie is going to flourish under those circumstances. They brought in Davidson and he started changing everything. I think Mason can do very well here under the right circumstances. We bought Luke Schenn last year when he was at his worst, and he was very good. Mason can do the same.

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06-14-2013, 12:51 PM
  #117
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am I the only one that would much rather see Jonathan Bernier as opposed to Bobby Lou... A Read/Bernier deal makes a lot of sense to me. I really believe Read is gonna price himself off this team.. with G, Brayden, and Couts all getting new deals (and the cap going down) Read becomes more or less the odd man out... plus hes the only one the will be UFA. LA needs quality wingers in a bad way, to match with Anze, Richie, and Carter and would much rather move Bernier and collect something to help them now, then allow JB to hit RFA and get signed to an offer sheet netting them a below market draft pick (that wont help them now). The time is now to trade their 24 year old netminder. I think Read + 2013 2nd (maybe throw in Noebles/Mcginn) does it... I also think Simon Gagne (at the home town discount) can fill Reads roll no problem. Gagne is defensively responsible and can certainly chip in some goals.

Bobby Lou to me is the same story from a different book as Bryz... I thought when we signed Bryz originally this had Beezer written all over it... Like Beez we were all left disappointed. Instead of a quick fix maybe we should look at the more long term solution in net for a change. Bernier is that guy.

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06-14-2013, 01:05 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Not sure I agree, if you think Loungo can help the team and the price is right it cannot hurt. Sure you want to see if Mason can be the guy, but at the same time you need someone reliable in case Mason falters.
It's a tough situation. I think if you get Luongo on more than a cheap one year deal (which I think is the most likely scenario...probably 2-3 years at 3-4 million), you are essentially saying that Mason is NOT going to be our guy. If that is the case, ok. I am not necessarily against that. But if you really want to see what Mason can do, you have to give him every opportunity. You can't have Luongo sitting there, who I think is a better goalie and I think most would agree, and either not use him as a starter, or use him solely as a starter. If you do that, well in two years we are looking for a goalie now to replace Luongo.

IMO you have to say ok Mason is our guy, find a good backup and roll with that, or say Mason is not our guy, let's get Luongo and see what happens with Stolarz or someone else when Luongo is done. Having mason and Luongo only complicates things. Is it better for the team in the short term? Probably. But long term I think it simply makes it more complicated.

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Do you seriously want to hand the reins over to a guy who has only one full year (2009) as a starter of a save percentage above 0.901 and a goals against below 3.00?

From what I have seen from the Flyers' management, they want to win; they don't want to test the waters with someone who may be a capable starter... hell, it's the exact reason why Bryz was brought it when the Flyers still had Bobrovsky.

The reason that the Bryz experiment failed is because the Flyers misjudged how he could handle playing in Philly. By all accounts, Luongo is a great lockerroom guy and has played in a high pressure city and been successful.
And that is fine. In fact, I had no problem with that when they did it with Bryz and I would not have a problem doing that with Luongo. Basically what I am saying is you have to make up your mind. Either see what Mason has or go with Luongo. You can't do both IMO.

I haven't said in any of these posts that the Flyers necessarily should hand it all over to Mason. All I am saying is that if they want to see what Mason has and see if he can be a capable starter, they shouldn't bring in a better goalie on what is most likely going to be a longer and more expensive contract. That will not solve anything. If they don't think Mason has what it takes, then bring in Luongo as a two year or so stop gap.

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06-14-2013, 01:29 PM
  #119
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I think you're being too hard on Mason. Under Howson, that was maybe the worst run team in sports. He was on terrible teams year after year. It was a culture of losing and inept people. No one young goalie is going to flourish under those circumstances. They brought in Davidson and he started changing everything. I think Mason can do very well here under the right circumstances. We bought Luke Schenn last year when he was at his worst, and he was very good. Mason can do the same.
Howson was the GM in Columbus well before Mason had his best season. Past his rookie season, Mason was actually pretty consistent; unfortunately, his play was consistently amongst the worst starters in the NHL.

A change of scenery may have been exactly what Mason needed, but I hope the Flyers don't use his seven games as a Flyers as the indicator that he has turned his game around and is ready to be the bonafide starter for the upcoming season.

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And that is fine. In fact, I had no problem with that when they did it with Bryz and I would not have a problem doing that with Luongo. Basically what I am saying is you have to make up your mind. Either see what Mason has or go with Luongo. You can't do both IMO.

I haven't said in any of these posts that the Flyers necessarily should hand it all over to Mason. All I am saying is that if they want to see what Mason has and see if he can be a capable starter, they shouldn't bring in a better goalie on what is most likely going to be a longer and more expensive contract. That will not solve anything. If they don't think Mason has what it takes, then bring in Luongo as a two year or so stop gap.
Nothing in the past 25 years has suggested that the Flyers are willing to be patient with a young goalie. I would be shocked (and disappointed) if the Flyers chose Mason as the young goalie they finally showed confidence in to lead the team to glory.

I also wouldn't see Luongo as a 'stop-gap'. He's two years removed from a very solid run to game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final; he's still a good starter.

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06-14-2013, 01:37 PM
  #120
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Howson was the GM in Columbus well before Mason had his best season.
That was sort of my point. It's tough to overcome being on a terrible team/franchise year after year. At some point a young goalie would naturally just lose confidence.

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06-14-2013, 01:42 PM
  #121
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I'd have no problems with Luongo. I don't understand all the hatred for the guy. The fact he's been blamed 100% for the failures of the Canucks is wrong on so many levels. If you could get him at 4 years for $18 or $19 million over that time, then I hope the Flyers do it. However, something says Mike Gillis is going to hold out and still try to make a deal for Luongo.

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06-14-2013, 01:52 PM
  #122
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I am interested in seeing what Mason can do, and if he can return to his prior calder form. On that note, I also don't think he should be pushed into the number one spot and thrown to the wolves. Who ever they bring in it can't get much worse then Bryz, and I imagine the team won't have any ill-willed feelings towards the goaltender either, the situation will be much better for the team being bryzless.

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06-14-2013, 02:09 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Nothing in the past 25 years has suggested that the Flyers are willing to be patient with a young goalie. I would be shocked (and disappointed) if the Flyers chose Mason as the young goalie they finally showed confidence in to lead the team to glory.
I agree. Which again is why I haven't said this is what they ARE doing or what they SHOULD do. All I am saying, and have been saying, is that if they want to do this, they have to do it right and be 100% comitted to him, at least for this year. If they are not doing this, fine. But again, IMO you have to either say we are going to give Mason the shot at being the guy for the future or you have to say Mason is not our guy. You can't say, "Let's see what we have in Mason, oh by the way we are going to bring in a better goalie on a bigger contract." That is a bad idea.

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I also wouldn't see Luongo as a 'stop-gap'. He's two years removed from a very solid run to game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final; he's still a good starter.
I would absolutely call him a stop gap. Stop-gap doesn't mean he is not a good goalie. I have said from the beginning that Luongo is better than Mason. The problem is that he will turn 35 next season. Realistically, he has what, 3-4 years tops? Best case scenario Luongo is your starter for 3-4 years. That is best case. Injuries, age, etc. might have a say in that. Again, as I have said, I wouldn't be opposed to that. But it would still be a stop-gap, as in, not a long term solution (see: Roman Cechmanek, Robert Esche, Brian Boucher, etc).

My basic point has been from the beginning is that the Flyers have to go all-in basically. Go with Mason or move on. Bring in a guy to challenge him, fine. No qualms with that. But bringing in Luongo would not be challenge, it would be making Mason the backup (which is fine, if that is what you want to do, but if you think Mason has a shot to be the starter, bringing in another starting goalie will not help in that regard).

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06-14-2013, 02:30 PM
  #124
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I can't wait until this bum is off the team. While I had nothing to do with his signing I've been embarrassed by his play on the ice and his comments off the ice, he's tarnished that logo we've all loved for years and I'll dance in the streets the day he is gone. Let Mason have a shot to regain his confidence this year as the starter and bring in a nice veteran to back him up. Maybe Theodore?

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06-14-2013, 03:34 PM
  #125
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i dont think theres a chance in hell Lou. signs in Philly..

hes sick n tired of the media circus in Vancouver.. Philly is at least 100% worse..

not to mention thers no chance Lou plays backup to Mason when coming here..

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