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Old
06-14-2013, 01:14 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Nope.

If the Devs had traded Brodeur at 31 they would have lost out on 300 + wins. Which scoring Wing would have been worth it back then? No one.
Depends, Steven Stamkos is the 3rd best forward in the NHL behind Evgeni Malkin and Sidney Crosby. The 3rd best forward in the league at the time was probably Ilya Kovalchuk, behind MSL and Sakic. A pretty good comparable to current Stamkos. Take your pick on if you'd rather have Kovalchuk from 2005 onwards or Brodeur from 2005 onwards, both are excellent choices.

I expect Stamkos to easily break the 700 goal mark in his career.

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06-14-2013, 01:34 PM
  #102
stan the caddy
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Anyone one that wouldn't trade a 31 year old star for a 23 year old star is nuts.

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Old
06-14-2013, 02:32 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
Generally using one of the greatest outliers in pro sports history isn't a good way to support your arguement but I can't argue if you think Hank will continue to shine well into his late 30's. i believe and hope he will too.
Hank compares to only two recent goalies - Marty and Hasek. Hasek also had 300 wins after 31 yrs old.

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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I thought about making a 30 year old Hasek-trade-for-young-Jagr comparison, but to me the major difference is that while Hank
s numbers are similar to Hasek's, Hasek did it in a time when he was so far different from the rest of the league that the aforementioned stat of goal difference would have been much bigger.

There are a lot of very competent goaltenders with big contracts who are seen as having no value. Luongo. Fleury. Look at how quickly JS Giguere became considered an albatross.

I love Hank. He is the franchise. But, in terms of real value, if we are being cold and heartless, this isn't even close. Stamkos will be a hall of famer, and very possibly could hit 700 goals in his career. He'd bump the NYR power play to 20%.
Brett Hull is comparable to Stamkos at this point, all offense and a mediocre two way game. Brett Hull won once he was surrounded by other HOF players who pushed his arse hard to work on his game outside the offensive zone.

Yeah we can pick up the next JS Giguere or better yet the overrated Fleury. Then we'd be back to square one.

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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I think Hank for Kovalchuk would be not only equal , but also doable.
Brutal, no thanks.

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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Depends, Steven Stamkos is the 3rd best forward in the NHL behind Evgeni Malkin and Sidney Crosby. The 3rd best forward in the league at the time was probably Ilya Kovalchuk, behind MSL and Sakic. A pretty good comparable to current Stamkos. Take your pick on if you'd rather have Kovalchuk from 2005 onwards or Brodeur from 2005 onwards, both are excellent choices.

I expect Stamkos to easily break the 700 goal mark in his career.
Stamkos is the 3rd best forward in the league on offense.

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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Anyone one that wouldn't trade a 31 year old star for a 23 year old star is nuts.
I take the difference maker. Hank is on the ice 60 minutes a game and beats teams with the likes of Ovechkin and Stamkos every year.

But really, goals are more important than a world class goalie, just ask Mike Gartner and his 700 goals !

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Old
06-14-2013, 03:03 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
Jesus christ ask me to slice off my left nut to save my left leg why dont you!? Leg is harder to replace then testicle so yes I'll slice the nut...sry hank. It is really REALLY going to hurt though
He-he... Not forever, though. Nice analogy... BTW sex w/o leg is a possibility, while with other thing missing... In hockey terms it depends what you value more: offence or defense. ;-)

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06-14-2013, 03:13 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I think Hank for Kovalchuk would be not only equal , but also doable.

Definitely don't do that.

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Old
06-14-2013, 03:13 PM
  #106
Kris Chreider
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I don't think so. Malkin + Fleury or Hiller, Getzlaf, Fowler for Hank + are packages I would like. Stamkos's game relies on shooting. Nobody here can feed him the puck like St. Louis or Vinny.

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Old
06-14-2013, 03:14 PM
  #107
stan the caddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I take the difference maker. Hank is on the ice 60 minutes a game and beats teams with the likes of Ovechkin and Stamkos every year.

But really, goals are more important than a world class goalie, just ask Mike Gartner and his 700 goals !
Why are you comparing Stamkos to Gartner? Stamkos is 23 and already has two Rocket Trophies. Tampa would never make this trade.

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Old
06-14-2013, 03:20 PM
  #108
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Peace & out Hank.

Welcome to NY Stamer!



Sather than trades for Luongo. Win+win= WIN

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06-14-2013, 03:20 PM
  #109
Barbara Underhill
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
I don't think so. Malkin + Fleury or Hiller, Getzlaf, Fowler for Hank + are packages I would like. Stamkos's game relies on shooting. Nobody here can feed him the puck like St. Louis or Vinny.
I think one of Stepan, or Brassard would do fine feeding Stamkos. Also why add Fleury when you could easily find someone at half his cap hit to not suck as bad. Fasth is probably a better choice out of ANA too.

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06-14-2013, 03:43 PM
  #110
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****. Maybe. Need a goalie though.

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06-14-2013, 03:53 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Why are you comparing Stamkos to Gartner? Stamkos is 23 and already has two Rocket Trophies. Tampa would never make this trade.
He's a great scorer, no doubt, but I could give a **** about Richard trophies.

Cups, all that matters, let me know how many times Stamkos has led his team to the playoffs much less a Cup.

Again, Brett Hull we're talking here, not Steve Yzerman(who himself took a long time to become that kind of player).

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Old
06-14-2013, 04:09 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
He's a great scorer, no doubt, but I could give a **** about Richard trophies.

Cups, all that matters, let me know how many times Stamkos has led his team to the playoffs much less a Cup.

Again, Brett Hull we're talking here, not Steve Yzerman(who himself took a long time to become that kind of player).
Hasek is arguably the greatest goalie that ever played and he didn't win squat until he was paired up with an all star team. Hockey is a team game. Individual players don't win cups. I'm not buying the "Lundqvist drags his team to the playoffs and Stamkos doesn't" argument. There's other variables.

Stamkos is one of the best players in the league and he's only 23. If you polled the gms every one of them is going to take a 23 year old Stamkos over a 31 year old Lundqvist.

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Old
06-14-2013, 04:17 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Hasek is arguably the greatest goalie that ever played and he didn't win squat until he was paired up with an all star team. Hockey is a team game. Individual players don't win cups. I'm not buying the "Lundqvist drags his team to the playoffs and Stamkos doesn't" argument. There's other variables.

Stamkos is one of the best players in the league and he's only 23. If you polled the gms every one of them is going to take a 23 year old Stamkos over a 31 year old Lundqvist.
You just said it, indivisuals don't win Cups. A team with Hank overachieves, yet a team with a player like Stamkos can end up worst in the league.

But yes, Stamkos is younger.

Thankfully NONE of this actually matters.

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06-14-2013, 04:27 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Hasek is arguably the greatest goalie that ever played and he didn't win squat until he was paired up with an all star team. Hockey is a team game. Individual players don't win cups. I'm not buying the "Lundqvist drags his team to the playoffs and Stamkos doesn't" argument. There's other variables.

Stamkos is one of the best players in the league and he's only 23. If you polled the gms every one of them is going to take a 23 year old Stamkos over a 31 year old Lundqvist.
Really?

If Stamkos wasn't the face of TB's franchise and singlehandedly sold the arena seats, they'd probably do Hank for Steven in a heartbeat. Nobody's winning anything with Matt Carle as the #2D and a goalie tandem of Bishop/Lindback.

OT, in 2008, we almost did get Stamkos.

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06-14-2013, 04:31 PM
  #115
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No poll?

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Old
06-14-2013, 04:31 PM
  #116
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I love Hank but yes. Get a decent goalie and we will be in good shape

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Old
06-14-2013, 04:42 PM
  #117
Bluenote13
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Really?

If Stamkos wasn't the face of TB's franchise and singlehandedly sold the arena seats, they'd probably do Hank for Steven in a heartbeat. Nobody's winning anything with Matt Carle as the #2D and a goalie tandem of Bishop/Lindback.

OT, in 2008, we almost did get Stamkos.
'Almost' is a huge exaggeration here.

Quote:
By the time the Blueshirts visited Tampa on Thanksgiving of 2008, the talks had become serious. Barrie was asking to choose two or three from a wish list that featured Michael Del Zotto, Evgeny Grachev, Ryan Callahan, Brandon Dubinsky and Dan Girardi.

The deal, according to Sather, was struck. The Rangers would be getting Stamkos, who has scored 46 goals thus far this season, tied for second in the NHL with Alex Ovechkin and just one behind Sidney Crosby in the race for the Rocket Richard Trophy.

Oh, no, they wouldn't.

"How close did we come?" Sather asked rhetorically, repeating the question we posed to him as the Rangers practiced in Tampa on Thursday. "We shook hands on it, that's how close.

"I'd been on it since Europe. I had an agreement with Len Barrie. I asked him if he had the authority to make the trade, and he assured me that he did, because he was an owner.

"But the next day, I found out that he didn't."
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...Vq92kFkpEFVBMI


To summarize:

-There was a 'handshake' deal in place with one owner of the most shadiest ownership groups in recent times. And he was lying, meaning, this really never had legs, and Slats was going on a part owners word, seems like a mistake a Vet GM wouldn't make.

-It was more than just Del Z, we are talking two of Callahan, Girardi, Dubinsky plus Del Z.

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06-14-2013, 04:44 PM
  #118
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I would have given Callahan, Del Zotto and Dubinsky for Stamkos, even in 2008

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06-14-2013, 05:16 PM
  #119
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i would do it possibly, but through in lindbeck

henk for stamkos and lindbeck

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06-14-2013, 05:31 PM
  #120
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Honestly, this deal really doesn't work as a man for man trade. Need more from each side.

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Old
06-14-2013, 05:43 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
i would do it possibly, but through in lindbeck

henk for stamkos and lindbeck
If anyone has to add to that deal, it would be us

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06-14-2013, 06:49 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
Peace & out Hank.

Welcome to NY Stamer!



Sather than trades for Luongo. Win+win= WIN
Yeah. Let's not only ship out a world talent goalie, but let's also gut the team for a goalie who has a sucky contract and won't be as good as Hank.

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Old
06-14-2013, 06:54 PM
  #123
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Yeah. Let's not only ship out a world talent goalie, but let's also gut the team for a goalie who has a sucky contract and won't be as good as Hank.
Grass is always greener...

I knew he'd say something stupid like this in this thread. Not surprising at all.

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Old
06-15-2013, 12:03 AM
  #124
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Interesting discussion, but interesting assumptions are made.

Plug and play would work for both teams?
Would a replacement goalie perform as well as expected, or wilt under broadway lights?
Stamkos will be as good or better in NY as he was in TB?
Not sure these assumptions can be made. Even though Stamkos is younger and had the higher potential, there is no guarantee he can be as productive here as he was in TB.

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Old
06-15-2013, 03:36 AM
  #125
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Henrik is like Roy, Hasek and Brodeur in that he's extrememyl consistent and healthy at the same time. There's no reason to think he would have the kind of dropoff in production as he got older like most goalies.

Henrik will be henrik for the rest of his career. Still, if he cant win in NY -- for whatever reason -- at some point the Rangers or Lundqvist will have to think about going elsewhere.

Ray Bourque waited until he was 40 years old to ask for a trade, but he played in 2 SCF with Boston. If Henrik doesnt get to the SCF in the next 2-3 years, then somethings going to have to change.

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