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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part V: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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Old
06-14-2013, 04:21 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
If I were Holmgren, Morrissey is the guy I'd draft. The more I watch him and the more and more you can see he does all the little things that great defenders do. You can also see that he really thinks the game when he's playing out there and now that he's starting to hit another growth spurt (he's already up to 6'1 and weighing in at 191 pounds), he's going to be a good sized defender. He's just as good on the defensive side as he is the offensive side and he can really skate like the wind.

On top of it, he's got a great shot from the point. It's not quite the shot that Pulock has, but Morrissey is close. He really does look like a cross between Duncan Keith/Drew Doughty/Kimmo Timonen and he's not afraid of the physical play either. Honestly, I just can't say enough good things about Morrissey.
It's based on your posts that I put Morrissey at 6 on my list. But I doubt you'd be sitting at your table with Morrissey scribbled on a single cue card. Who would be your picks if Morrissey weren't available at 11?

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06-14-2013, 04:23 PM
  #402
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Fair point, but the first two trades, because he wouldn't sign and for Rick Nash, aren't really an indictment against his talents. He's an all around defenseman who is good at everything but doesn't really excell at any one thing. He is also caught in a logjam in Columbus with two promising defense prospects in Prout and Murray competing for time there. IMO the Flyers would be lucky to get someone as good at 27 plus Erixon is NHL ready as opposed to having to wait 3 years for that prospect to contribute.
We don't really have a slot for Erixon though assuming Streit signs. He'd either push Gustafsson out of the top-6 or would be our #7. Gustafsson should be in the NHL at this point.

Anyway, I'd rather stay at 11th. We're guaranteed to get one of Ristolainen, Nurse, Zadorov and Pulock, assuming from 1-7 is Jones+all the forwards... even choosing between Zadorov and Pulock is a very good player. Lots of forwards and other defenders who could also be on our radar (Morin, Morrissey, Domi, Horvat, Lazar, Zykov, Manta, Wennberg, etc.) ... and of course any of the high-end forwards if they fall (Nichushkin, Lindholm, Monahan, Shinkaruk).

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06-14-2013, 04:26 PM
  #403
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We should trade up. Trade Couturier and the pick to the Lightning for the 3rd overall pick. Draft Drouin. Him and G on a line would be a hell of a combination.
then when we meet chara in the playoffs drouin gets murdered. Pick players for playoff hockey not for regular season scoring titles aka penguin mode.

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06-14-2013, 04:32 PM
  #404
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then when we meet chara in the playoffs drouin gets murdered. Pick players for playoff hockey not for regular season scoring titles aka penguin mode.
Setting the bar a bit high, aren't you? The line of players who wouldn't be murdered by Chara is rather short. I guess Patrick Kane should be a healthy scratch for the finals.

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06-14-2013, 04:36 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'd put Mueller at 6 and move everyone down one spot after him.
Mueller is my 7 (ahead of Haag), so we're roughly on the same page. Big fan.

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06-14-2013, 04:36 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by coolhockeyjack View Post
We should trade up. Trade Couturier and the pick to the Lightning for the 3rd overall pick. Draft Drouin. Him and G on a line would be a hell of a combination.
Honestly, I have no interest in trade up unless the player were after is Seth Jones. Not that I don't think Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov etc. will be great players, we just desperately need a building block blue liner with potential... Sacrificing other assets to trade up for a young forward who doesn't help our grim future on the back end is counter productive IMO.

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06-14-2013, 05:09 PM
  #407
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It's based on your posts that I put Morrissey at 6 on my list. But I doubt you'd be sitting at your table with Morrissey scribbled on a single cue card. Who would be your picks if Morrissey weren't available at 11?
If Morrissey isn't available at 11, my picks would be:

1) Ristolainen - great defender, developing offensive game, mean streak to match
2) Zadorov - a solid guy who is being developed in a great London program. He's going to get a ton of playing time in an offensive role this year and there's no reason to believe that with his shot and ability, he can't put up at least 45, maybe even 50 points. He'll be the point man on the power play.
3) Zykov - fantastic first year in the QMJHL and is a pure goal scorer. Eerily similar to Mark Recchi and also plays with a chip on his shoulder.
4) Pulock - even though I'm not the biggest of fan, I also realize that he's a very talented guy. My reasons for not wanting him have to do with the fact he's only been playing defense for a few years, so he's significantly behind the learning curve and he's going to have a lot of catching up to do. I also wonder whether or not he's maxed out physically and if others will catch and surpass him.
5) Domi - a fantastic player that is written off by plenty because of his size. You can't discount his drive, determination and skill. He's a gamer that brings it every night.
6) McCoshen - people might flame me, but the guy is such a good defenseman. If he were playing in major junior, there's no doubt he'd be a top 15 guy because he really is the complete package. Such a good hockey player.
7) Morin - the big is growing on a lot of people because he's mobile, mean and he's got the tools to have a very good offensive game. My concerns with Morin have to do with the time frame that it will take before he makes a significant impact. Big defensemen like him usually take 5 to 6 seasons before they make an impact at the pro level. He'll probably use up his two remaining years of junior eligibility, spend a couple of seasons in the AHL and then be used in a bottom six pairing at the NHL level for a few years. I will say that he's got the smarts though and in most case, having a great hockey IQ is more than enough to cover up any short comings there might be.

EDIT: If we're going with 10 picks, these would be my final 3:

8) Horvat - had a MONSTER OHL playoff. He's a guy who you can put on any line and he wouldn't look out of place. You need a goal scoring winger on your top line? Horvat can be that guy. You need a centerman on your second line? Horvat's that guy. You need a third line winger or center who can check and go up against the opposition's top line? Horvat's that guy. His versatility is just off the chart. I don't think I've ever seen such a complete player come out of junior like Horvat. If the Flyers were to draft him (and honestly, he's got that 'criteria' that the Flyers look for in a player), he probably could crack their lineup as an 18 year old and play a lot of minutes on the third line.
9) Wennberg - another forward who can play all three positions and all three zones. He plays in high traffic areas, has great eye/hand co-ordination and is one of those players that the puck just seems to follow him around. My only concern is that he needs a finisher on his line or else all that talent just goes to waste.
10) Klimchuk - a fantastic forward who's numbers more than doubled in his second season, especially on a bad Regina team. Elite hockey sense, fantastic shot selection, always in the right place at the right time, and is a terrific skater. He's playing more and more on the wing and also had a very good U18 tournament. Also a versatile forward who can play all three positions.


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06-14-2013, 05:35 PM
  #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
If Morrissey isn't available at 11, my picks would be:

1) Ristolainen - great defender, developing offensive game, mean streak to match
2) Zadorov - a solid guy who is being developed in a great London program. He's going to get a ton of playing time in an offensive role this year and there's no reason to believe that with his shot and ability, he can't put up at least 45, maybe even 50 points. He'll be the point man on the power play.
3) Zykov - fantastic first year in the QMJHL and is a pure goal scorer. Eerily similar to Mark Recchi and also plays with a chip on his shoulder.
4) Pulock - even though I'm not the biggest of fan, I also realize that he's a very talented guy. My reasons for not wanting him have to do with the fact he's only been playing defense for a few years, so he's significantly behind the learning curve and he's going to have a lot of catching up to do. I also wonder whether or not he's maxed out physically and if others will catch and surpass him.
5) Domi - a fantastic player that is written off by plenty because of his size. You can't discount his drive, determination and skill. He's a gamer that brings it every night.
6) McCoshen - people might flame me, but the guy is such a good defenseman. If he were playing in major junior, there's no doubt he'd be a top 15 guy because he really is the complete package. Such a good hockey player.
7) Morin - the big is growing on a lot of people because he's mobile, mean and he's got the tools to have a very good offensive game. My concerns with Morin have to do with the time frame that it will take before he makes a significant impact. Big defensemen like him usually take 5 to 6 seasons before they make an impact at the pro level. He'll probably use up his two remaining years of junior eligibility, spend a couple of seasons in the AHL and then be used in a bottom six pairing at the NHL level for a few years. I will say that he's got the smarts though and in most case, having a great hockey IQ is more than enough to cover up any short comings there might be.

EDIT: If we're going with 10 picks, these would be my final 3:

8) Horvat - had a MONSTER OHL playoff. He's a guy who you can put on any line and he wouldn't look out of place. You need a goal scoring winger on your top line? Horvat can be that guy. You need a centerman on your second line? Horvat's that guy. You need a third line winger or center who can check and go up against the opposition's top line? Horvat's that guy. His versatility is just off the chart. I don't think I've ever seen such a complete player come out of junior like Horvat. If the Flyers were to draft him (and honestly, he's got that 'criteria' that the Flyers look for in a player), he probably could crack their lineup as an 18 year old and play a lot of minutes on the third line.
9) Wennberg - another forward who can play all three positions and all three zones. He plays in high traffic areas, has great eye/hand co-ordination and is one of those players that the puck just seems to follow him around. My only concern is that he needs a finisher on his line or else all that talent just goes to waste.
10) Klimchuk - a fantastic forward who's numbers more than doubled in his second season, especially on a bad Regina team. Elite hockey sense, fantastic shot selection, always in the right place at the right time, and is a terrific skater. He's playing more and more on the wing and also had a very good U18 tournament. Also a versatile forward who can play all three positions.
Thanks very much.

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06-14-2013, 05:47 PM
  #409
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Setting the bar a bit high, aren't you? The line of players who wouldn't be murdered by Chara is rather short. I guess Patrick Kane should be a healthy scratch for the finals.
Im just saying that playoff hockey is much diffrent than regular season hockey as the pens found out. Id prefer to build this team in the mold of successful playoff teams like the kings and Bruins. Big, all forwards are 2 way, punishing forecheck, and 3 pairs of defenders that can play behind a world class goalie.

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06-14-2013, 05:52 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Im just saying that playoff hockey is much diffrent than regular season hockey as the pens found out. Id prefer to build this team in the mold of successful playoff teams like the kings and Bruins. Big, all forwards are 2 way, punishing forecheck, and 3 pairs of defenders that can play behind a world class goalie.
Teams need balance. The Flyers employ(ed) on of the all-time playoff performers in Daniel Briere, who doesn't fit any of your criteria. However, it would be suicide to go into a series with all Briere types. I don't subscribe to evaluating prospects based on how well they project to playing in the post-season, especially with an exceptional talent like Drouin.

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06-14-2013, 05:54 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Im just saying that playoff hockey is much diffrent than regular season hockey as the pens found out. Id prefer to build this team in the mold of successful playoff teams like the kings and Bruins. Big, all forwards are 2 way, punishing forecheck, and 3 pairs of defenders that can play behind a world class goalie.
In fairness though, the Hawks aren't the Pens. The term soft gets thrown around quite regularly, but the Pens team is a group of soft players. I don't see a "soft" player on the Blackhawks. They're all willing to grind it out and take a pounding in order to win. Are there some bigger forwards on the Hawks? Yeah, but the more prominent players are smaller in stature.

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06-14-2013, 06:11 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
If Morrissey isn't available at 11, my picks would be:

1) Ristolainen- yes
2) Zadorov - no
3) Zykov - no
4) Pulock - yes
5) Domi - no
6) McCoshen - no
7) Morin - no
8) Horvat - yes
9) Wennberg - ?
10) Klimchuk - yes
Just my level of confidence in the Flyers developing some of these players properly. The player I'm most excited about in terms of potential is Robert Hagg. I don't care where the scouts have him. He does everything really well already, and comes with no question marks that I'm aware of (i.e. concussion history, character issues, consistency issues, etc.)

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06-14-2013, 06:14 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
In fairness though, the Hawks aren't the Pens. The term soft gets thrown around quite regularly, but the Pens team is a group of soft players. I don't see a "soft" player on the Blackhawks. They're all willing to grind it out and take a pounding in order to win. Are there some bigger forwards on the Hawks? Yeah, but the more prominent players are smaller in stature.
It's odd, too, because they'll start it during plays, between plays, it doesn't matter. The moment a team shows a little resolve, and reciprocates, they turn to the refs in total disbelief. As if no team in the NHL has the right to retaliate.

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06-14-2013, 06:18 PM
  #414
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who is the poster that is on the Samuel Morin bandwagon? Is there room for 1 more?
I've watched some clips of this kid and man he's a great skater! To see someone at 6'6" skate that well is impressive! He is also nasty as anything. Some scouts say he could end up being Zdeno Chara type defenseman. I wont be mad if we take him at 11 honestly. Although Josh Morrissey is still my first choice.


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06-14-2013, 06:24 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
If Morrissey isn't available at 11, my picks would be:

1) Ristolainen - great defender, developing offensive game, mean streak to match
2) Zadorov - a solid guy who is being developed in a great London program. He's going to get a ton of playing time in an offensive role this year and there's no reason to believe that with his shot and ability, he can't put up at least 45, maybe even 50 points. He'll be the point man on the power play.
3) Zykov - fantastic first year in the QMJHL and is a pure goal scorer. Eerily similar to Mark Recchi and also plays with a chip on his shoulder.
4) Pulock - even though I'm not the biggest of fan, I also realize that he's a very talented guy. My reasons for not wanting him have to do with the fact he's only been playing defense for a few years, so he's significantly behind the learning curve and he's going to have a lot of catching up to do. I also wonder whether or not he's maxed out physically and if others will catch and surpass him.
5) Domi - a fantastic player that is written off by plenty because of his size. You can't discount his drive, determination and skill. He's a gamer that brings it every night.
6) McCoshen - people might flame me, but the guy is such a good defenseman. If he were playing in major junior, there's no doubt he'd be a top 15 guy because he really is the complete package. Such a good hockey player.
7) Morin - the big is growing on a lot of people because he's mobile, mean and he's got the tools to have a very good offensive game. My concerns with Morin have to do with the time frame that it will take before he makes a significant impact. Big defensemen like him usually take 5 to 6 seasons before they make an impact at the pro level. He'll probably use up his two remaining years of junior eligibility, spend a couple of seasons in the AHL and then be used in a bottom six pairing at the NHL level for a few years. I will say that he's got the smarts though and in most case, having a great hockey IQ is more than enough to cover up any short comings there might be.

EDIT: If we're going with 10 picks, these would be my final 3:

8) Horvat - had a MONSTER OHL playoff. He's a guy who you can put on any line and he wouldn't look out of place. You need a goal scoring winger on your top line? Horvat can be that guy. You need a centerman on your second line? Horvat's that guy. You need a third line winger or center who can check and go up against the opposition's top line? Horvat's that guy. His versatility is just off the chart. I don't think I've ever seen such a complete player come out of junior like Horvat. If the Flyers were to draft him (and honestly, he's got that 'criteria' that the Flyers look for in a player), he probably could crack their lineup as an 18 year old and play a lot of minutes on the third line.
9) Wennberg - another forward who can play all three positions and all three zones. He plays in high traffic areas, has great eye/hand co-ordination and is one of those players that the puck just seems to follow him around. My only concern is that he needs a finisher on his line or else all that talent just goes to waste.
10) Klimchuk - a fantastic forward who's numbers more than doubled in his second season, especially on a bad Regina team. Elite hockey sense, fantastic shot selection, always in the right place at the right time, and is a terrific skater. He's playing more and more on the wing and also had a very good U18 tournament. Also a versatile forward who can play all three positions.
I think he'll be one of those guys that goes a lot higher than everybody expects (15-20 range). It would be great if he was there at #41 but I doubt it at this point.

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06-14-2013, 06:33 PM
  #416
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Would love to trade our pick for something in the early 20s + late 30s.

Then go Morrissey/Morin + Hagg. That would be a dream.


EDIT: But damn, I love Risto and Zadorov also.


Last edited by hockeyfreak7: 06-14-2013 at 06:40 PM.
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06-14-2013, 06:33 PM
  #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
If Morrissey isn't available at 11, my picks would be:

1) Ristolainen - great defender, developing offensive game, mean streak to match
2) Zadorov - a solid guy who is being developed in a great London program. He's going to get a ton of playing time in an offensive role this year and there's no reason to believe that with his shot and ability, he can't put up at least 45, maybe even 50 points. He'll be the point man on the power play.
3) Zykov - fantastic first year in the QMJHL and is a pure goal scorer. Eerily similar to Mark Recchi and also plays with a chip on his shoulder.
4) Pulock - even though I'm not the biggest of fan, I also realize that he's a very talented guy. My reasons for not wanting him have to do with the fact he's only been playing defense for a few years, so he's significantly behind the learning curve and he's going to have a lot of catching up to do. I also wonder whether or not he's maxed out physically and if others will catch and surpass him.
5) Domi - a fantastic player that is written off by plenty because of his size. You can't discount his drive, determination and skill. He's a gamer that brings it every night.
6) McCoshen - people might flame me, but the guy is such a good defenseman. If he were playing in major junior, there's no doubt he'd be a top 15 guy because he really is the complete package. Such a good hockey player.
7) Morin - the big is growing on a lot of people because he's mobile, mean and he's got the tools to have a very good offensive game. My concerns with Morin have to do with the time frame that it will take before he makes a significant impact. Big defensemen like him usually take 5 to 6 seasons before they make an impact at the pro level. He'll probably use up his two remaining years of junior eligibility, spend a couple of seasons in the AHL and then be used in a bottom six pairing at the NHL level for a few years. I will say that he's got the smarts though and in most case, having a great hockey IQ is more than enough to cover up any short comings there might be.

EDIT: If we're going with 10 picks, these would be my final 3:

8) Horvat - had a MONSTER OHL playoff. He's a guy who you can put on any line and he wouldn't look out of place. You need a goal scoring winger on your top line? Horvat can be that guy. You need a centerman on your second line? Horvat's that guy. You need a third line winger or center who can check and go up against the opposition's top line? Horvat's that guy. His versatility is just off the chart. I don't think I've ever seen such a complete player come out of junior like Horvat. If the Flyers were to draft him (and honestly, he's got that 'criteria' that the Flyers look for in a player), he probably could crack their lineup as an 18 year old and play a lot of minutes on the third line.
9) Wennberg - another forward who can play all three positions and all three zones. He plays in high traffic areas, has great eye/hand co-ordination and is one of those players that the puck just seems to follow him around. My only concern is that he needs a finisher on his line or else all that talent just goes to waste.
10) Klimchuk - a fantastic forward who's numbers more than doubled in his second season, especially on a bad Regina team. Elite hockey sense, fantastic shot selection, always in the right place at the right time, and is a terrific skater. He's playing more and more on the wing and also had a very good U18 tournament. Also a versatile forward who can play all three positions.
I like your list as well. I haven't seen that much of Ristolainen but have caught Zadorov live in actions on many occasions. I can't see why anybody would want to pass on him if he's available after 10 IMO. Like you said, he has all the tools to become a great defender and while being in a very good London program, he will work on his offensive game. He may be about 2-3 years away from the NHL but if he develops properly, he will be an animal. Already has a 6'6 235 pound frame and has the tools to go.

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06-14-2013, 06:52 PM
  #418
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The player I'm most excited about in terms of potential is Robert Hagg. I don't care where the scouts have him. He does everything really well already, and comes with no question marks that I'm aware of (i.e. concussion history, character issues, consistency issues, etc.)
I'm also a big fan of Hagg's. Will probably have him top 10 on my final list. One of the knocks on him is that he can be passive at times, but he seems to be the complete package otherwise.

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06-14-2013, 06:59 PM
  #419
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I've watched some clips of this kid and man he's a great skater! To see someone at 6'6" skate that well is impressive! He is also nasty as anything. Some scouts say he could end up being Zdeno Chara type defenseman. I wont be mad if we take him at 11 honestly. Although Josh Morrissey is still my first choice.
Watching him at the U18 was quite fun. He is a much better skater than nurse and Zadorov, especially in small space. He clearly has trouble with players that are smaller than him that he cant put a body on, i hope that can be taught.

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06-14-2013, 07:01 PM
  #420
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If the Flyers do the rumored Read for Bernier swap, are there any forwards available around 11th overall who would have the ability to start in the line up opening night in Read's 2nd/3rd line spot? If so, I wouldn't be that against taking a forward at that spot, as the drop off in defensemen later in the draft isn't as bad as the drop off in forwards historically.

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06-14-2013, 07:03 PM
  #421
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My top 11 for the #11 spot:
1. Darnell Nurse
2. Rasmus Ristolanien
3. Nikita Zadorov
4. Bo Horvat
5. Joshua Morrisey
6. Ryan Pulock
7. Valentin Zykov
8. Samuel Morin
9. Max Domi
10. Adam Erne
11. Ryan Hartman

I gave 11 because Nurse is a real toss up at this point to be there.

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06-14-2013, 07:05 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
If the Flyers do the rumored Read for Bernier swap, are there any forwards available around 11th overall who would have the ability to start in the line up opening night in Read's 2nd/3rd line spot? If so, I wouldn't be that against taking a forward at that spot, as the drop off in defensemen later in the draft isn't as bad as the drop off in forwards historically.
Bo Horvat.

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06-14-2013, 07:23 PM
  #423
Hockeypete49
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Originally Posted by poneill27 View Post
I've watched some clips of this kid and man he's a great skater! To see someone at 6'6" skate that well is impressive! He is also nasty as anything. Some scouts say he could end up being Zdeno Chara type defenseman. I wont be mad if we take him at 11 honestly. Although Josh Morrissey is still my first choice.
Sam is my first choice. I like Josh, but at 11 no way.

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06-14-2013, 07:27 PM
  #424
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I'm on the Morin bandwagon. I see a young Pronger/Chara. But wouldn't it be a reach takin him at 11?

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06-14-2013, 07:28 PM
  #425
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Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
I'm on the Morin bandwagon. I see a young Pronger/Chara. But wouldn't it be a reach takin him at 11?
If you go by public scouting services it would.

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