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Trade value of Andrei Markov

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Old
06-13-2013, 04:25 PM
  #226
btallett
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Originally Posted by AmeriHab View Post
Just curious, what would the trade value of Markov give us in moving up in the draft. Not our first but maybe Markov plus the 34+36 pick?
see i've been asking that question alot too recently and i'm thinking move markov and the 34th/36th or both picks and were in the top 10 in the draft for sure... question is who are we looking for and do we want to do it?

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06-13-2013, 11:49 PM
  #227
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I think I'd want to depending on who was on the board. If one of the big defenders were available like nurse or ristolainen and hope for Mantha being available or another power forward come 25th pick. Maybe I'm crazy for thinking of letting the general go

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06-14-2013, 05:29 AM
  #228
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Markov's value to this team is so under appreciated. The habs record with/without him is a large enough sample now to make certain conclusions. He is easily one of the main driving forces behind the habs success. Without him, we struggle, last year vs this year even though not as dominant as his prior self Markov was key to the turn around.

If Ristolainen or Manta are available though, I'd certainly listen.

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06-14-2013, 06:05 AM
  #229
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In such a deep draft i cant imagine that there is a team willing to part a 1st rounder for Markov's services. I do believe that there might be offers for a 2nd rounder, but i would be hesitate to pull the trigger on a trade like this.

On the other hand i would be willing to listen to any offer, especially if it is an overpayment from a team desperate to increase PP stats...

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06-14-2013, 06:34 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by GRECOHAB View Post
In such a deep draft i cant imagine that there is a team willing to part a 1st rounder for Markov's services. I do believe that there might be offers for a 2nd rounder, but i would be hesitate to pull the trigger on a trade like this.

On the other hand i would be willing to listen to any offer, especially if it is an overpayment from a team desperate to increase PP stats...
Only on HF is a PMD who was top 5 in dman scoring this year not worth a 1st.

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06-14-2013, 06:45 AM
  #231
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I think the most important part of this has been overlooked.

I see the decision on Markov's future with the Habs being directly related to how he is physically. If I was GM the most important people I would talk to is 1-the team doctors and 2-Markov himself.

I would ask the doctor if his skating/mobility will stay the same, get better or get worse his 2nd year back. Also is there a lot of wear and tear on the knee or is it "like new" as some athletes have no further issues. Having barely played the last 2 years keeps the rest of his body "younger".

Second part is I would ask Markov how long he wants to play NHL and does he want to stay here long term.

If all is good medically and with Markov, he tells me he wants to play 4-5 years, I offer him 5 years at 25 mil, front loaded...2 mil signing bonus then 7 mil 6 mil 4.5 mil 3 mil 2.5 mil. This protects the cap and the team going forward. As it's not a 35+ deal if he retires there is no cap implications, if he gets hurt you have LITR(see Savard, Pronger) and if he becomes ineffective in 2 years, he is easy to trade with declining salary making him attractive to small markets.

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06-14-2013, 06:46 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by GRECOHAB View Post
In such a deep draft i cant imagine that there is a team willing to part a 1st rounder for Markov's services. I do believe that there might be offers for a 2nd rounder, but i would be hesitate to pull the trigger on a trade like this.

On the other hand i would be willing to listen to any offer, especially if it is an overpayment from a team desperate to increase PP stats...
Deep draft or not, guys like Markov are worth more than a 1st rounder. I'm sure Phillie would have gladly traded their 1st for him and probably more.

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06-14-2013, 12:14 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I think the most important part of this has been overlooked.

I see the decision on Markov's future with the Habs being directly related to how he is physically. If I was GM the most important people I would talk to is 1-the team doctors and 2-Markov himself.

I would ask the doctor if his skating/mobility will stay the same, get better or get worse his 2nd year back. Also is there a lot of wear and tear on the knee or is it "like new" as some athletes have no further issues. Having barely played the last 2 years keeps the rest of his body "younger".

Second part is I would ask Markov how long he wants to play NHL and does he want to stay here long term.

If all is good medically and with Markov, he tells me he wants to play 4-5 years, I offer him 5 years at 25 mil, front loaded...2 mil signing bonus then 7 mil 6 mil 4.5 mil 3 mil 2.5 mil. This protects the cap and the team going forward. As it's not a 35+ deal if he retires there is no cap implications, if he gets hurt you have LITR(see Savard, Pronger) and if he becomes ineffective in 2 years, he is easy to trade with declining salary making him attractive to small markets.
On this type of contract, I think you could extend him for less than a
5 million cap hit. I could see 5 for maybe a 2 year extension, taking him to
37.
And you have a point about him being younger in some ways. He played
348 less NHL games (combined reg.season and play-offs) than Kaberle, who
is similar in age.
Anyhow, to me he is the natural leader of the habs, and everyone plays
better when he's on the ice. This is so hard to replace that I think it would
take a huge payment to consider moving him.

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06-14-2013, 12:19 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Deep draft or not, guys like Markov are worth more than a 1st rounder. I'm sure Phillie would have gladly traded their 1st for him and probably more.
If so...DO IT NOW. And hope that Diaz will become your Markov. I mean we did it with a downhill Cole...why not do it with a downhill Markov? 'Cause our depth is better up front....well thank god for rookies it was. But maybe Bergevin isn't done trading on the back end. Trading Markov might create a gap IF Diaz can't fulfill his potential or if no rookies like, let say a Tinordi or a Beaulieu can fill the spot. Or if Bergevin is unable to trade.

But if you REALLY can have a 1st AND more for Markov from Philly? You are freakin talking about the 11th overall pick here? Where do I sign? THIS is the year where we change the face of this franchise. If you are able to keep our picks and add an 11th of probably the best draft year since 2003....I mean, again...where do I freakin sign.

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06-14-2013, 12:24 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaddict View Post
On this type of contract, I think you could extend him for less than a
5 million cap hit. I could see 5 for maybe a 2 year extension, taking him to
37.
And you have a point about him being younger in some ways. He played
348 less NHL games (combined reg.season and play-offs) than Kaberle, who
is similar in age.
Anyhow, to me he is the natural leader of the habs, and everyone plays
better when he's on the ice. This is so hard to replace that I think it would
take a huge payment to consider moving him.
Obviously if you can get him 5 years at 24 mil you do it, but given the deal Gonchar got and Streit wants, I would expect around 5.5-6 mil for 2 years, around 5 mil over 4-5 years(declining salary).

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06-14-2013, 12:28 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
If so...DO IT NOW. And hope that Diaz will become your Markov. I mean we did it with a downhill Cole...why not do it with a downhill Markov? 'Cause our depth is better up front....well thank god for rookies it was. But maybe Bergevin isn't done trading on the back end. Trading Markov might create a gap IF Diaz can't fulfill his potential or if no rookies like, let say a Tinordi or a Beaulieu can fill the spot. Or if Bergevin is unable to trade.

But if you REALLY can have a 1st AND more for Markov from Philly? You are freakin talking about the 11th overall pick here? Where do I sign? THIS is the year where we change the face of this franchise. If you are able to keep our picks and add an 11th of probably the best draft year since 2003....I mean, again...where do I freakin sign.
Cole it was a case of a guy with a sour attitude and not wanting him around the kids, was also nice they could replace him with Ryder and still get a pick. I don't think his abilities necessarily declined as much as his drive.

I don't see them trading Markov now unless it's for huge return. Signing him to a good extension may be the best of both worlds, you keep him as long as you need him and if he becomes ependable a declining slary makes him easy to move to small/medium markets.

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06-14-2013, 12:32 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I don't see them trading Markov now unless it's for huge return. Signing him to a good extension may be the best of both worlds, you keep him as long as you need him and if he becomes ependable a declining slary makes him easy to move to small/medium markets.
But you don't agree that #11 in 2013 is already a huge return? Some mock drafts have Ristolainen at #11. Others have Horvat and a few others....Honestly, I don't see how huge the return can be as you will always have the medical issue with him and EVERYBODY saw the step back he took. Philly is indeed desperate but they got Streit...probably their own Markov now.

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06-14-2013, 01:24 PM
  #238
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why do I have the feeling that Markov would take a Sundinesque approach to his NMC. He signed a contract and a contract is a contract. Don't see him ever moving.

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06-14-2013, 01:50 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But you don't agree that #11 in 2013 is already a huge return? Some mock drafts have Ristolainen at #11. Others have Horvat and a few others....Honestly, I don't see how huge the return can be as you will always have the medical issue with him and EVERYBODY saw the step back he took. Philly is indeed desperate but they got Streit...probably their own Markov now.
I agree that it's no longer an option with Streit, but Markov would have been a lot better and possibly their 1st choice.

Ristolainen and Nurse are very good prospects, but you still have an all-star calibre d-man who is 34 and probably still has 3-4 good years under his belt. Look at what Phillie gave up for Pronger at 35.

I agree he took a step back but other than a few games where he clearly looked fatigued, his game was still very solid at both ends. I think a longer season with more off days will help him, not hurt him. He played a ton oif hockey early on with PK out, and that plus having not played in 2 years caught up with him at times.

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06-14-2013, 02:05 PM
  #240
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You don't trade Markov. Therrien needs to smarten up and cut his icetime. Give him most powerplay minutes and less 5-on5 minutes. The younger players should be able to get some of his time.

Markov is still a superior player on the point and on the transition. His breakout passes are still one of the best in the league. People should stop reading too much in his play at the end of the season. It was his first season in a long time and he performed well given the situation. He lost speed, that's for sure. That doesn't take away he's one of the most clever player in the game.

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06-14-2013, 02:44 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Uber Coca View Post
You don't trade Markov. Therrien needs to smarten up and cut his icetime. Give him most powerplay minutes and less 5-on5 minutes. The younger players should be able to get some of his time.

Markov is still a superior player on the point and on the transition. His breakout passes are still one of the best in the league. People should stop reading too much in his play at the end of the season. It was his first season in a long time and he performed well given the situation. He lost speed, that's for sure. That doesn't take away he's one of the most clever player in the game.
This is correct, move Subban in to the no.1 slot and cut Markov's ice time. He is still one of the smartest players out there. I was taken a little aback by his inability to make the adjustment for his new lack of foot speed, but I think fatigue played a part in that. At his age he should not be carrying the responsibility of being the no.1.
He will be fantastic in a lesser role.

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06-14-2013, 02:48 PM
  #242
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This is correct, move Subban in to the no.1 slot and cut Markov's ice time. He is still one of the smartest players out there. I was taken a little aback by his inability to make the adjustment for his new lack of foot speed, but I think fatigue played a part in that. At his age he should not be carrying the responsibility of being the no.1.
He will be fantastic in a lesser role.
Exactly. Markov used in a proper role is a big advantage for this team going forward.

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06-14-2013, 03:20 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by btallett View Post
see i've been asking that question alot too recently and i'm thinking move markov and the 34th/36th or both picks and were in the top 10 in the draft for sure... question is who are we looking for and do we want to do it?
no, the real question is : why in hell a bottom feeder (likely in rebuilding mode as well) would be interested in a close to 35 years old D man with injury history ?

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06-14-2013, 03:23 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
If so...DO IT NOW. And hope that Diaz will become your Markov. I mean we did it with a downhill Cole...why not do it with a downhill Markov? 'Cause our depth is better up front....well thank god for rookies it was. But maybe Bergevin isn't done trading on the back end. Trading Markov might create a gap IF Diaz can't fulfill his potential or if no rookies like, let say a Tinordi or a Beaulieu can fill the spot. Or if Bergevin is unable to trade.

But if you REALLY can have a 1st AND more for Markov from Philly? You are freakin talking about the 11th overall pick here? Where do I sign? THIS is the year where we change the face of this franchise. If you are able to keep our picks and add an 11th of probably the best draft year since 2003....I mean, again...where do I freakin sign.
no problem, find a GM who'll trade us a more productive D than Markov for Markov. Cause, that's what the Cole trade was, you know.

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06-14-2013, 04:38 PM
  #245
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no problem, find a GM who'll trade us a more productive D than Markov for Markov. Cause, that's what the Cole trade was, you know.
Each trade has a different purpose. A more productive player that ended up being with us for a whopping 32 games. Not like we are retaining him or anything. The real and true purpose of Cole was unloading his salary. And probably more getting a 3rd round pick out of the deal than half of a year of a productive player.

In the end, it's not how 1 deal looks. It's how at the start of the year, the team is composed of. Bergevin talks about building a team through draft...you get an additional 11th pick in that draft, you are surely responding to his wish. And if it was just a question of productivity, you would have probably seen people asking for us to get Gonchar which I'm pretty sure nobody wanted to have.

Besides, it's also about what's coming not what was done. It's up to the team to think how many more years of productivity do we have with Markov. If the idea is the end of his deal and another one...fine. I don't believe it. How many years do you re-sign him for once his deal is done? He is UFA next year, and it doesn't matter how many points he'd be getting this year....you'd have to take a decision in just 1 year. I've seen tons of teams trading productive players when their UFA period was close by. Chances are Markov won't have that much power over us as he probably knows because of his injury that his value might not be at an all-time high, but then who knows if he is still productive? Was a short season this year a problem with him 'cause it was too dense? Surely. Will a longer season, while with more games, but less condensed be better with him? Probably. At one point, decisions will need to be made. OF COURSE, we'll need to have a strong D. And if getting a trade pick isn't the solution as Diaz or any other won't be able to replace Markov....well if he has such value for a productive player, maybe we could trade him for another, maybe less productive player but more physical one.

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06-14-2013, 05:02 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Uber Coca View Post
You don't trade Markov. Therrien needs to smarten up and cut his icetime. Give him most powerplay minutes and less 5-on5 minutes. The younger players should be able to get some of his time.

Markov is still a superior player on the point and on the transition. His breakout passes are still one of the best in the league. People should stop reading too much in his play at the end of the season. It was his first season in a long time and he performed well given the situation. He lost speed, that's for sure. That doesn't take away he's one of the most clever player in the game.
In a perfect world this post would have ended the thread . Right on. Markov is not your basic commodity player . He's very unique . Sad that people don't appreciate him now that Pk has emerged. I am quite confident another contract is coming and Markov will retire a Hab.

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06-14-2013, 05:20 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
If so...DO IT NOW. And hope that Diaz will become your Markov. I mean we did it with a downhill Cole...why not do it with a downhill Markov? 'Cause our depth is better up front....well thank god for rookies it was. But maybe Bergevin isn't done trading on the back end. Trading Markov might create a gap IF Diaz can't fulfill his potential or if no rookies like, let say a Tinordi or a Beaulieu can fill the spot. Or if Bergevin is unable to trade.

But if you REALLY can have a 1st AND more for Markov from Philly? You are freakin talking about the 11th overall pick here? Where do I sign? THIS is the year where we change the face of this franchise. If you are able to keep our picks and add an 11th of probably the best draft year since 2003....I mean, again...where do I freakin sign.
I like this post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But you don't agree that #11 in 2013 is already a huge return? Some mock drafts have Ristolainen at #11. Others have Horvat and a few others....Honestly, I don't see how huge the return can be as you will always have the medical issue with him and EVERYBODY saw the step back he took. Philly is indeed desperate but they got Streit...probably their own Markov now.
Streit didn't sign yet
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In a perfect world this post would have ended the thread . Right on. Markov is not your basic commodity player . He's very unique . Sad that people don't appreciate him now that Pk has emerged. I am quite confident another contract is coming and Markov will retire a Hab.
I think so as well.

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06-14-2013, 05:36 PM
  #248
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I believe Markov will be 35 when his next contract will start. His new contract will start on June 2014 and he'll turn 35 on December 2013.

So in this situation, there's no way anyone, including the Habs, offer him a 5 year contract for 5-6 millions/year.

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06-14-2013, 05:41 PM
  #249
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I believe Markov will be 35 when his next contract will start. His new contract will start on June 2014 and he'll turn 35 on December 2013.

So in this situation, there's no way anyone, including the Habs, offer him a 5 year contract for 5-6 millions/year.
If Gonchar gets 10mil/2yrs at 39 from the nearly-tax Dallas Stars, Markov's agent is going to want something similar. And Markov deserves it, he's a great defenseman and should retire a Hab.

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06-14-2013, 05:53 PM
  #250
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If Gonchar gets 10mil/2yrs at 39 from the nearly-tax Dallas Stars, Markov's agent is going to want something similar. And Markov deserves it, he's a great defenseman and should retire a Hab.
With his injury history, I doubt anyone takes a gamble for 5 years. After 35, Gonchar was signed to a 3-year contract, then a 2 year contract. Markov will get a 2 or 3 year contract too.

I want the Habs to sign him too and would love to see him retire as a Hab, but a 4-5 year contract is way too long if something bad happens. 2 year would be the best.

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