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2013 Draft Part II: All Aboard the Nichushkin Train

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Old
06-13-2013, 07:27 AM
  #376
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Most likely no one is moved accept McBain.

But if we draft Nichushkin:

Tlusty / Eric / Semin
Nichuskin / Jordan / Ruutu
Rask / Skinner / Dwyer
Blanchard / Welsh / Westgarth
Nash

Thoughts?

Top line is given, 2nd line is huge, it will wear teams out.
3rd line for energy, Dwyer has a ton of speed, Skinner for scoring threat, Rask for 2way and center option.
4th line is big, Blanchard and Nash can swap.

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06-13-2013, 10:07 AM
  #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit Semin View Post
Most likely no one is moved accept McBain.

But if we draft Nichushkin:

Tlusty / Eric / Semin
Nichuskin / Jordan / Ruutu
Rask / Skinner / Dwyer
Blanchard / Welsh / Westgarth
Nash

Thoughts?

Top line is given, 2nd line is huge, it will wear teams out.
3rd line for energy, Dwyer has a ton of speed, Skinner for scoring threat, Rask for 2way and center option.
4th line is big, Blanchard and Nash can swap.
Penalty killing?
Jordan-Dwyer
Eric-Semin
Tlusty-Ruutu?

Size on the 4th is fun, but that line can't play more than 6 minutes a night, and has no value outside of playing 6 lousy minutes a night.

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Old
06-13-2013, 10:16 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by wallym View Post
Penalty killing?
Jordan-Dwyer
Eric-Semin
Tlusty-Ruutu?

Size on the 4th is fun, but that line can't play more than 6 minutes a night, and has no value outside of playing 6 lousy minutes a night.
20min
20min
14min
6min

1 shift per period more or less for the 4th line.

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06-13-2013, 10:20 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Yes, for some posters I agree that's what it has to do with, and while I don't agree with trading him, that's a reasonable discussion to have in terms of addressing the defense. I don't agree with trading him because he's only 21 and outside of Semin, the most skilled player the Canes have. I agree he needs to mature and improve in other aspects of the game, but if the Canes were to trade him, I suspect it would be a trade that down the road we regret tremendously.

But other's have indicated that he's "expendable" or the "odd man out" simply because we will pick a forward at #5. Assuming an 18 YO picked at #5 - #7 (if the Canes trade down) will automatically come in and take over a 2nd line spot and contribute immediately and thus make Skinner the odd man out is what I was referring to.

And if Skinner was traded, I suspect some of those same posters would then complain years down the road about JR giving up on a player too soon and/or trading him when his value is at it's lowest.
To add to this, what's important is the return. If the return is an indication we're 'giving up on him', then that deal shouldn't be made. I think what some of us entertaining the idea are thinking of, is a reallocation of skill.

Who the deal would be for, I don't even know. Certainly not a 30 year old middle pairing Giordano. But I'm sure there are a couple Justin Faulk type kids out west.

While impossible, that's an interesting trade.

Jeff Skinner for Justin Faulk + Zac Dalpe.

I think that's around where I'd put the value of Skinner at.

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Old
06-13-2013, 11:18 AM
  #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
Jeffrey should have been moved last offseason...waiting this long has only added another concussion and diving/whining-filled season to his resume. His mom still does his laundry, there's something wrong with this kid. You can see it in his smile...over the years it has turned from cute to almost maniacal, like he has several hundred dead hookers buried in his yard a la Zach Boychuk. I think we should move him ASAP, as long as he's on this team I fear for the safety of the citizens of Raleigh.
Instead of more trolling, why don't you give us an actual analysis of what you think of Jeff Skinner, a la this thread?

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...321&highlight=


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Old
06-14-2013, 03:06 PM
  #381
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What if we took Lindholm or Monahan over Nichushkin if Barkov and Drouin was off the table already?

I really wouldn't mind any of the 3. But just kinda thinking "out loud".

Monahan would give us that 3rd line center we have missed since Sutter left. If he turns out like Jordan, perfect, if he turns out like Eric, even better right?

Lindholm I don't know enough about, but he would improve our depth also.

Nichushkin is that big power forward, 6'4 220 lb truck on the wing. But centers are usually more valuable (down the line, for now, Nichushkin is more valuable then Monahan I would think)

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06-14-2013, 06:50 PM
  #382
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I can't help but think how Lindholm is pretty much the perfect player to pair with Skinner. A playmaking centre who's creative and defensively responsible? Sign me up!

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06-14-2013, 07:11 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Aquin001 on Ice View Post
I can't help but think how Lindholm is pretty much the perfect player to pair with Skinner. A playmaking centre who's creative and defensively responsible? Sign me up!
It's a tough question.

Nichushkin is a power forward we could really use.

But Lindholm or Monahan down the road may be more valuable as centers.

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06-14-2013, 08:27 PM
  #384
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It would seem we are getting a solid player with any of these choices. Ill add ristolainen because I think he's a jr pick, but I don't think he's our pick unless we drop a couple of spots. Lindholm, monahan, barkov, drouin, coosh....all legit.

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06-14-2013, 08:46 PM
  #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
It would seem we are getting a solid player with any of these choices. Ill add ristolainen because I think he's a jr pick, but I don't think he's our pick unless we drop a couple of spots. Lindholm, monahan, barkov, drouin, coosh....all legit.
I will be happy with any of the top forwards.

A defenseman at that pick would be a reach though.

I think our 2nd pick can land us a great D prospect that can develop in short time.

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06-14-2013, 09:30 PM
  #386
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All of this talk of Lindholm and Monahan is making me think twice about the importance of our pick. IMO, there's a clear top tier with superstar potential and then Monahan and Lindholm are just 2 centers with 2nd line potential. Instant gratification could be a problem but Letang would really help our squad more than the 5th overall in the near future. I'm about to post this trade in the Kris Letang discussion thread:

Letang

for

Pitkanen, Murphy, 5th overall.

Here's a deal that's almost identical to the Jordan trade, however a bigger star requires better assets. This could just as easily backfire on the canes.

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06-14-2013, 09:34 PM
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooked on Ponics View Post
All of this talk of Lindholm and Monahan is making me think twice about the importance of our pick. IMO, there's a clear top tier with superstar potential and then Monahan and Lindholm are just 2 centers with 2nd line potential. Instant gratification could be a problem but Letang would really help our squad more than the 5th overall in the near future. I'm about to post this trade in the Kris Letang discussion thread:

Letang

for

Pitkanen, Murphy, 5th overall.

Here's a deal that's almost identical to the Jordan trade, however a bigger star requires better assets. This could just as easily backfire on the canes.
No way. Murphy is our best D Prospect. We already gave them our other top D Prospect.

Niskanen would be easy low hanging fruit to grab from them for cheap.

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06-14-2013, 10:04 PM
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooked on Ponics View Post
All of this talk of Lindholm and Monahan is making me think twice about the importance of our pick. IMO, there's a clear top tier with superstar potential and then Monahan and Lindholm are just 2 centers with 2nd line potential. Instant gratification could be a problem but Letang would really help our squad more than the 5th overall in the near future. I'm about to post this trade in the Kris Letang discussion thread:

Letang

for

Pitkanen, Murphy, 5th overall.

Here's a deal that's almost identical to the Jordan trade, however a bigger star requires better assets. This could just as easily backfire on the canes.
I wouldn't trade the 5th Overall straight up for Letang, much less give up our best prospect and 2nd best D in the deal.

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06-14-2013, 10:05 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Misfit Semin View Post
No way. Murphy is our best D Prospect. We already gave them our other top D Prospect.

Niskanen would be easy low hanging fruit to grab from them for cheap.
The Malkin extension has made it so that Letang will probably get traded before Niskanen. Letang will probably be looking for no less than what Suter got at around 7.6 million and I think that Carolina could fit that in their expenses. Losing Murphy does hurt this team as well, but maybe we can offer him up conditionally just in case Letang doesn't sign an extension with us. When push comes to shove, Letang is a better option than Marc as our top pairing defender.

EDIT: fixed.


Last edited by Yes We Cam: 06-14-2013 at 10:11 PM.
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06-14-2013, 10:08 PM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooked on Ponics View Post
The Malkin extension has made it so that Letang will probably get traded before Niskanen. Letang will probably be looking for no less than what Suter got at around 7.6 million and I think that Carolina could fit that in their expenses. Losing Murphy does hurt this team as well, but maybe we can offer him up conditionally just in case Letang doesn't sign an extension with us. When push comes to shove, Letang is a better option than Marc as our number one center.
I thought that was what Eric was for.

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06-14-2013, 10:13 PM
  #391
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We're gonna go from a team of spare parts to a team of stars bumped up against the cap every year? These are strange times. Don't see letang happening. I know he's still improving but he was all over the place in the playoffs this year. Lets see what Murphy can become before locking ourselves into something like this.

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06-14-2013, 10:17 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
We're gonna go from a team of spare parts to a team of stars bumped up against the cap every year? These are strange times. Don't see letang happening. I know he's still improving but he was all over the place in the playoffs this year. Lets see what Murphy can become before locking ourselves into something like this.
The bigger issue is Letang is a UFA in one year and has a high chance of leaving to the highest bidder, which I don't see being the Canes at $7+ million. That would be almost equal JRs budget for the entire D corps (sadly, not even kidding).

If we want a D fix now we should just push for a trade back to the 8-12 range adding another 2nd, pick up Ristolainen/Zadorov/Nurse, Santini, and Heatherington. Add Murphy and Faulk to those 3 and that's almost a full D corps in 2-4 years.


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06-14-2013, 10:21 PM
  #393
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That trade is pure insanity. Give up two high potential young players on cheap ELCs to pick up a defenseman who will make $7M+ while not getting rid of any long term salary in the process? And since Pitkanen and Murphy are both gone, we would still be short a top 4 defenseman or any prospects who could reasonably become one.

Seems like a lot of assets given up to essentially arrive back at square one. Still missing a top 4 D (albeit improving the top 3), but now with less money to spend, no Ryan Murphy and no Nichushkin/Lindholm/Barkov/whoever.

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06-14-2013, 10:31 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
That trade is pure insanity. Give up two high potential young players on cheap ELCs to pick up a defenseman who will make $7M+ while not getting rid of any long term salary in the process? And since Pitkanen and Murphy are both gone, we would still be short a top 4 defenseman or any prospects who could reasonably become one.

Seems like a lot of assets given up to essentially arrive back at square one. Still missing a top 4 D (albeit improving the top 3), but now with less money to spend, no Ryan Murphy and no Nichushkin/Lindholm/Barkov/whoever.
Yup.

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06-14-2013, 10:34 PM
  #395
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Now I can where all of these trade Skinner advocates are coming from because we have so many forwards locked up long term that we're afraid to pull the trigger on a solution to a reliable top pairing defender. If it wasn't for the emergence of Faulk, I don't know where this team would be.

Letang is only 26 and entering his prime during the window that Staal and Semin are at they're best as superstars. We have some 3 million to the cap that JR is stubbornly not willing to spend which could be used to split the difference between Letang's and Pitkanen's salary. With the salary going up, and leverage being given, maybe sign Marc to a cap friendly deal and then some depth players and we're set for a Stanley Cup.

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06-14-2013, 10:53 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Hooked on Ponics View Post
Now I can where all of these trade Skinner advocates are coming from because we have so many forwards locked up long term that we're afraid to pull the trigger on a solution to a reliable top pairing defender. If it wasn't for the emergence of Faulk, I don't know where this team would be.

Letang is only 26 and entering his prime during the window that Staal and Semin are at they're best as superstars. We have some 3 million to the cap that JR is stubbornly not willing to spend which could be used to split the difference between Letang's and Pitkanen's salary. With the salary going up, and leverage being given, maybe sign Marc to a cap friendly deal and then some depth players and we're set for a Stanley Cup.
FORWARDS
Jeff Skinner ($5.725m) / Eric Staal ($8.250m) / Alexander Semin ($7.000m)
Jeremy Welsh ($0.850m) / Jordan Staal ($6.000m) / Jiri Tlusty ($1.600m)
Drayson Bowman ($0.600m) / Tuomo Ruutu ($4.750m) / Patrick Dwyer ($0.900m)
Kevin Westgarth ($0.725m)
DEFENSEMEN
Joni Pitkanen ($4.500m) / Tim Gleason ($4.000m)
Jamie McBain ($1.800m) / Jay Harrison ($1.500m)
Justin Faulk ($0.900m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cam Ward ($6.300m)
Justin Peters ($0.538m)
OTHER
Buyout: Derek Joslin ($0.125m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (1.400% of upper limit)
Jussi Jokinen ($0.900m—0.3%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $56,962,500; BONUSES: $10,000
CAP SPACE (17-man roster): $7,347,500

That is the problem, and with a 61M cap (per GMJR) and 5 players needed. You can see the problem.

McBain swap for a 5/6 guy to pair with Jay, Skinner for a Top 4 to pair with Faulk. We might gain some cap space even to bulk up the bottom 6.

The Skinner + McBain for M. Staal + Boyle would be great:

FORWARDS
Jiri Tlusty ($1.600m) / Eric Staal ($8.250m) / Alexander Semin ($7.000m)
Valeri Nichushkin ($2.000m) / Jordan Staal ($6.000m) / Tuomo Ruutu ($4.750m)
Victor Rask ($0.863m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Patrick Dwyer ($0.900m)
Drayson Bowman ($0.600m) / Jeremy Welsh ($0.850m) / Kevin Westgarth ($0.725m)
Nicolas Blanchard ($0.538m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Justin Faulk ($0.900m) / Tim Gleason ($4.000m)
Joni Pitkanen ($4.500m) / Marc Staal ($3.975m)
Jay Harrison ($1.500m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Brett Bellemore ($0.525m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cam Ward ($6.300m)
Dan Ellis ($0.800m)
OTHER
Buyout: Derek Joslin ($0.125m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (1.400% of upper limit)
Jussi Jokinen ($0.900m—0.3%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,175,833; BONUSES: $292,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,416,667

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06-14-2013, 11:42 PM
  #397
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CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Jiri Tlusty ($4.000m) / Eric Staal ($8.250m) / Alexander Semin ($7.000m)
Jeff Skinner ($5.725m) / Jordan Staal ($6.000m) / Tuomo Ruutu ($4.750m)
Drayson Bowman ($0.600m) / Riley Nash ($0.735m) / Patrick Dwyer ($0.900m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.887m) / Jeremy Welsh ($0.850m) / Tim Wallace ($0.700m)
Kevin Westgarth ($0.725m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.500m) / Jamie McBain ($1.800m)
Tim Gleason ($4.000m) / Justin Faulk ($4.000m)
Brett Bellemore ($0.525m) / Bobby Sanguinetti ($0.700m)
GOALTENDERS
Cam Ward ($6.300m)
Justin Peters ($0.538m)
Dan Ellis ($0.800m)
OTHER
Buyout: Derek Joslin ($0.125m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (1.400% of upper limit)
Jussi Jokinen ($0.900m—0.3%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,309,750; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster):- $4,009,750

Considering that Letang's salary is only 3.5 million this year, I went ahead and didn't worry about publishing a fantasy calculator for this year. The above roster represents the 14-15 season when Letang's, Faulk's and Tlusty's extensions start kicking in. Faulk's contract is similar to that of Josi's, Letang of Suter's, and Tlusty will probably be close to Ruutu's.

As you can see, the roster is loaded with superstars and filled in with depth players that you can always get for under a million. It looks like we'd still have about $2 million to spend with like a 70 million cap floor. I'm not even worried about signing Marc given the leverage of being a Staal brother. Get rid of one or both of Gleason and Ruutu and we'll have enough to eventually sign Marc. In fact, the cap is projected to rise some $2 million every year after next year so we could get back Sutter if all went well.

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06-14-2013, 11:54 PM
  #398
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The defense is still awful even with letang. Mcbain on the top pairing? I've been his biggest advocate, but he regressed this year. Nodl? Our bottom six is a joke.

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06-15-2013, 12:05 AM
  #399
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I blame NHL13

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06-15-2013, 12:25 AM
  #400
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CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Jiri Tlusty ($1.600m) / Eric Staal ($8.250m) / Alexander Semin ($7.000m)
Tuomo Ruutu ($4.750m) / Jordan Staal ($6.000m) / Patrick Dwyer ($0.900m)
Jeremy Welsh ($0.850m) / Jeff Skinner ($5.725m) / Cal Clutterbuck ($1.700m)
Nicolas Blanchard ($0.538m) / Brody Sutter ($0.577m) / Kevin Westgarth ($0.725m)
DEFENSEMEN
Joni Pitkanen ($4.500m) / Justin Faulk ($0.900m)
Tim Gleason ($4.000m) / Andrew Ference ($2.250m)
Jay Harrison ($1.500m) / Mike Komisarek ($2.925m—35.0%)
Ryan Murphy ($1.313m) /
GOALTENDERS
Justin Peters ($0.538m)
Cam Ward ($6.300m)
OTHER
Buyout: Derek Joslin ($0.125m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (1.400% of upper limit)
Jussi Jokinen ($0.900m—0.3%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,865,000; BONUSES: $460,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $895,000

Trade mcbain plus whatever for clutterbuck, trade for Komi with a discount, sign ference. Not factoring in top 5 pick. Tougher, spreads out a little better and thats supposed to be Brett sutter not Brody.

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