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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part V: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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06-14-2013, 10:10 PM
  #451
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
It would be nice to add an extra first round pick. The possibility of drafting two defenseman in the first round would do wonders for our defense going forward. Could you imagine drafting say Morin and Pulock. The only player I would consider trading from the NHL roster to get another first would be Coburn, but then that puts us right back where we were when we didnt have Streit
Trading Coburn at this point is one of the more ridiculous ideas imaginable. We don't have anyone with his skill-set to log those minutes. Promoting Grossmann, fresh off concussion and still not nearly as mobile, is not a legitimate solution to replacing Coburn. Neither is promoting Lauridsen for all those foolish enough to propose that option.

That said, Hartnell may be a more feasible option. Can he be replaced by moving someone like Simmonds up or moving Schenn to the wing meanwhile promoting McGinn to 3rd line duty as a big man at the net? Can we find a Hartnell in Clowe or Horton on the market for a reasonable price?

And if we don't trade Read for Bernier, could he become 1st round bait?

Is there any kind of market at all for Briere?

These are all questions we can't answer right now.

I suspect the answer is no. I think we only have one 1st rounder to play with, as much as we would like more.

Since we got Streit, I'd say trading the 1st+ for guys like Gardiner or Kulikov is out. That means we need to use it to its fullest; aka drafting a bluechip PMD defenseman. That cuts Zadorov and Morin out leaving guys like Nurse, Ristolainen, Pulock, and Morrissey.

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06-14-2013, 10:14 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Trading Coburn at this point is one of the more ridiculous ideas imaginable. We don't have anyone with his skill-set to log those minutes. Promoting Grossmann, fresh off concussion and still not nearly as mobile, is not a legitimate solution to replacing Coburn. Neither is promoting Lauridsen for all those foolish enough to propose that option.

That said, Hartnell may be a more feasible option. Can he be replaced by moving someone like Simmonds up or moving Schenn to the wing meanwhile promoting McGinn to 3rd line duty as a big man at the net? Can we find a Hartnell in Clowe or Horton on the market for a reasonable price?

And if we don't trade Read for Bernier, could he become 1st round bait?

Is there any kind of market at all for Briere?

These are all questions we can't answer right now.

I suspect the answer is no. I think we only have one 1st rounder to play with, as much as we would like more.

Since we got Streit, I'd say trading the 1st+ for guys like Gardiner or Kulikov is out. That means we need to use it to its fullest; aka drafting a bluechip PMD defenseman. That cuts Zadorov and Morin out leaving guys like Nurse, Ristolainen, Pulock, and Morrissey.

I agree with you that we can't afford to lose any roster players at this point if we want to seriously compete this year. I was just saying that he is probably the most valuable player that another team would want for that first rounder that I would be willing to lose

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06-14-2013, 10:27 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Some would say yes, but he's another who's climbing real fast because of his performance at the U18 tournament and his work ethic (apparently he's got a work ethic that's off the chart and he's very receptive to coaching).
Maybe because he was paired with Morrissey

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06-14-2013, 10:56 PM
  #454
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Connor Clifton D USA

Michael McCarron F USA

Steve Santini D USA

Morgan Klimchuk F CAN

Madison Bowey D CAN

Joshua Morrissey D CAN

Laurent Dauphin F CAN

Dillon Heatherington D CAN

Frederik Gauthier F CAN

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06-14-2013, 11:21 PM
  #455
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Geez, that video makes Santini look like a mid-first rounder. Such a smooth player.

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06-14-2013, 11:21 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That means we need to use it to its fullest; aka drafting a bluechip PMD defenseman. That cuts Zadorov and Morin out leaving guys like Nurse, Ristolainen, Pulock, and Morrissey.
Why would the need for a PMD 4 years from now rule out Morin or Zadorov? What about Gus and Ghost?

Further to the size issue, one question: Was Pronger a PMD? Chara? Cripes, if you've got a huge, talented guy who plays 25+ minutes, dominates his half of the ice and has the puck on his stick the whole game, isn't that what you want?

Not to denigrate the other prospects, but those two big guys are awesome. I would not rule them out for any reason. It's not going to be easy to decide, but if our scouts are watching Keith and Chara dominate the ice, it's going to be an interesting Morrissey vs Zadorov/Morin conversation.

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06-15-2013, 12:22 AM
  #457
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Best player available imo, reaching or drafting for an immediate starter will hurt you. With that being said, it would be nice to draft a D-man with the #11. I'd be lying if I claimed to know anything about the prospects, but Pulock intrigues me. If anyone has any good reads on him, id appreciate it.

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06-15-2013, 12:45 AM
  #458
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Where does Sergei Tolchinsky rank? He's a guy I'd love to see the Flyers get.

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06-15-2013, 01:00 AM
  #459
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So honestly what is Morrissey weak point. I know he isnt a towering defenseman but reading about him the only problem i see people talk about is his size.... and he isnt even that small at 6'0. You would think a defender with above excellent skating (ive seen a few say he is the best skater in the draft), great puckmoving, terrific shot and on the defensive side hits like a truck, positions himself well and reads the play well. Only thing i havent read about is his footspeed. Cant see a player with his skating caliber have poor speed though.

No idea. Anything else wrong. Im prob missing something but he reminds me of that under the radar player who goes on to be one of the better players in the draft.

For me, he is getting extremely close to Risto for my hopeful pick.

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06-15-2013, 01:22 AM
  #460
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
No idea. Anything else wrong. Im prob missing something but he reminds me of that under the radar player who goes on to be one of the better players in the draft.

For me, he is getting extremely close to Risto for my hopeful pick.
The negatives on Morrissey are limited. First, he can make mistakes of aggression where he gets caught out of position, improperly pinches, etc. Entirely coachable.

Second, production. The tools are there, the production has been limited. Yes, he's young, but as I've stated before..... the person he's most debated against, Ryan Pulock, was vastly more productive on a far, far worse team. Pulock is older, so that's not too huge an issue.

Third, physical size. He is ok height as you noted. That's not a knock, but he's light. When he adds weight... how does that impact his ability to skate get impacted, etc. It's some uncertainty, but again, not a big deal.

At the end of the day, Morissey just doesn't have the development time of other prospects. That's the reason he's really not mentioned in the top 10. Otherwise, he's right there. Easily top 12-15. Great player. Has no significant weaknesses, but a slight bit more uncertainty than the players I (and most of the scouts) have ahead of him.

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06-15-2013, 01:38 AM
  #461
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Where does Sergei Tolchinsky rank? He's a guy I'd love to see the Flyers get.
He's probably a 3rd round or later guy. He's pretty skilled but also pretty small in stature.

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06-15-2013, 07:35 AM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
See: Laughton, Scott


Unfortunately, I see Morin as a high-end shut-down guy at the NHL level. Maybe as much offense as Coburn.

His positioning is fantastic and his agility keeps him right along with shifty forwards.

As a toss-up between Zadorov and Morin? I don't know. Morin is coachable to the very letter, but Zadorov has a higher upside.

Either way, these are guys we consider after we find someone with offensive umph (if they fall to us or if we find another high pick).
There are still going to be very good defensive prospects in the 2nd rd. Tom Vannelli has as much offensive potential as any defensemen in the draft, is right handed, and should be available at 41. He's a minnesota high school kid which explains his lower position in the draft but he too had a good U18. If they choose a big shutdown guy like Morin in the 1st and a puck mover like Vannelli 2nd, I don't see a downside.

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06-15-2013, 08:21 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Some would say yes, but he's another who's climbing real fast because of his performance at the U18 tournament and his work ethic (apparently he's got a work ethic that's off the chart and he's very receptive to coaching).


That's one reason I really like this young man.

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06-15-2013, 08:28 AM
  #464
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I am all for Morin but I am starting to think it won't happen. The Flyers never let it be known who they truely like before the draft. Scott Laughton was not rumored once even though guys like Maatta and Skjei were. I am thinking its going to be someone out of the blue and a little off the board.

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06-15-2013, 11:23 AM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I am all for Morin but I am starting to think it won't happen. The Flyers never let it be known who they truely like before the draft. Scott Laughton was not rumored once even though guys like Maatta and Skjei were. I am thinking its going to be someone out of the blue and a little off the board.
If they're as unpredictable as you claim, then how can you be so sure they'll be unpredictable?


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06-15-2013, 11:26 AM
  #466
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Has anyone ever been taken from the Hit The Ice (HTI) series?
There is one player I would take in the 7th round (flier). He has recently won the TOP/BEST D man in Canada.

Silas Makokis.


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06-15-2013, 03:26 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Geez, that video makes Santini look like a mid-first rounder. Such a smooth player.
Yep he was a 2nd rounder who is moving up the board. If he is there when we pick in round two I would think the brass would have interest.

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06-15-2013, 03:43 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I am all for Morin but I am starting to think it won't happen. The Flyers never let it be known who they truely like before the draft. Scott Laughton was not rumored once even though guys like Maatta and Skjei were. I am thinking its going to be someone out of the blue and a little off the board.
P Have you heard that the Flyers are interested in Morin? The only kid they were rumored to like was Monahan who I like also. But I really think he is gone by 11. It would be sweet if they could swing a deal to get another pick in the top 20 because there are some really interesting kids out there who could be part of this very young core of talent the Flyers have. As far as picking Morin and waiting for him to grow and mature,I am all for that. The kid has really tweaked my interest. I even saw a report that had him going at ten. Then I saw another report that did not even have him in the top 30. Go figure. I have enjoyed hockey for over 45+ years and this draft is loaded. I do not know if it is going to be as good as 79 and 03 but only time will tell. But I have to admit, Sam has me pumped Hurry up draft!

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06-15-2013, 03:48 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I am all for Morin but I am starting to think it won't happen. The Flyers never let it be known who they truely like before the draft. Scott Laughton was not rumored once even though guys like Maatta and Skjei were. I am thinking its going to be someone out of the blue and a little off the board.
Laughton was not their first choice. The rumors began that they really liked Tom Wilson and during the draft they said holmgren tried to move up to get him, and when the caps picked him you could tell he was visibly upset.

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06-15-2013, 04:47 PM
  #470
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Laughton was not their first choice. The rumors began that they really liked Tom Wilson and during the draft they said holmgren tried to move up to get him, and when the caps picked him you could tell he was visibly upset.
Good point about Wilson. Teravanain was another guy they were rumored to want really bad but went before they picked. I guess my point is that Laughton wasn't mentioned at all by any rumor guy or beat writer beforehand, and probably since he was a little off the board and was a late riser because of his performance at the U18.

HockeyPete,
Craig Button had the Flyers taking Morin at 11 on May 1 when that pick would have been way off the board sparking a conversation as to what exactly did Button know or hear. BobbyClarkFan mentioned he had heard the Flyers were interested in Morin recently and I saw the same rumor on a couple of other boards lately. A lot of it, like most rumors, could be bs but it is interesting none the less, at least to me.


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06-15-2013, 05:42 PM
  #471
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Good point about Wilson. Teravanain was another guy they were rumored to want really bad but went before they picked. I guess my point is that Laughton wasn't mentioned at all by any rumor guy or beat writer beforehand, and probably since he was a little off the board and was a late riser because of his performance at the U18.

HockeyPete,
Craig Button had the Flyers taking Morin at 11 on May 1 when that pick would have been way off the board sparking a conversation as to what exactly did Button know or hear. BobbyClarkFan mentioned he had heard the Flyers were interested in Morin recently and I saw the same rumor on a couple of other boards lately. A lot of it, like most rumors, could be bs but it is interesting none the less, at least to me.
I wanted Teravainen last year, but he fell far enough that if the Flyers wanted him, they would have moved up and got him.

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06-15-2013, 07:14 PM
  #472
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I want Morrissey more and more.
Love me some Zadorov too


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06-15-2013, 10:56 PM
  #473
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Why would the need for a PMD 4 years from now rule out Morin or Zadorov? What about Gus and Ghost?

Further to the size issue, one question: Was Pronger a PMD? Chara? Cripes, if you've got a huge, talented guy who plays 25+ minutes, dominates his half of the ice and has the puck on his stick the whole game, isn't that what you want?

Not to denigrate the other prospects, but those two big guys are awesome. I would not rule them out for any reason. It's not going to be easy to decide, but if our scouts are watching Keith and Chara dominate the ice, it's going to be an interesting Morrissey vs Zadorov/Morin conversation.
I agree completely. People are acting like who they draft will solve the PMD this season. Just draft the BPA. Aside from Jones do any one the dmen projrct to be much better then Dougie Hamilton

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06-16-2013, 12:49 AM
  #474
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I'm not really a big fan of the "PMD" label. If you're a talented defenender, you're going to make a difference regardless. Big well rounded guys with good hockey sense win games.

Give me Chara over Letang any day.

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06-16-2013, 02:09 AM
  #475
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I'm not really a big fan of the "PMD" label. If you're a talented defenender, you're going to make a difference regardless. Big well rounded guys with good hockey sense win games.

Give me Chara over Letang any day.
The issue with the term PMD is that it is misapplied by some to insinuate that it strictly means offensive-minded defenseman with average or below average defense. A PMD means the guy has strong puck-handling, shooting, scoring and puck control skills, but a PMD can be extremely good defensively (Weber, Pronger, Chara, etc), above average defensively (Subban, Kronwall, Keith, Doughty), average defensively (Karlsson, Letang, Phaneuf), below average defensively (Streit, Yandle, M. Green) or poor defensively (Marc-Andre Bergeron, Wideman).

While you could quibble about the categorization I made about certain players mentioned, clearly these guys can all move a puck and hence are PMD.... not all of them are going to improve a PK or goals against average. Further, even within PMD, there are stratifications. Clearly Karlsson is in a league of his own as far as offensive skills at the defensive position goes.

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