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One thing about Hitchcock bugs me

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Old
10-12-2006, 09:04 AM
  #1
SheroWorship
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One thing about Hitchcock bugs me

I have followed this team since 1974 and I have seen a lot of good and bad.

But I cannot recall a string of Flyers teams that have consistently sucked on the PP for this long. The only aspect of this team that has been consistent during this reign of ineptitude has been Hitchcock and Clarke. I do not in put this on Clarke's shoulders because he is not responsible for drawing up game strategy. That is the Coach's job. HItchcock. And he sucks at it. They may bring in whatever 'specialist' they chose to rework it but ultimately it still sucks. The specialists leave but Hitchcock remains.

Now... do I think Hitchcock is a good coach? Yes. Do I think he's great? No. Not anymore. And to make a point. This has little to do with our start this year. This has much to do with the way we play PP and PK under him every year. We used to first to the puck It used to be if the opposition got to the puck first there was hell to pay. Not anymore And it's been this way under both the old rules and the new rules with Hitchcock here.

It's almost time to start looking. I want Richards and Carter and Umberger to not be overly influenced by his methods. He's already held back Gagne from being all he can be (Gagne only succeeds now in spite of Hitchcock and mostly due to Forsberg) and I'm afraid it's happening threefold.

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10-12-2006, 09:19 AM
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Steve L*
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Dont forget, the PP is the easiest thing to fix.

The thing that bugs me in the passiveness and the *****ness of this team, its been like it ever since Hitch took over.

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10-12-2006, 11:15 AM
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well... the PK has looked great thus far... and two seasons ago they were 2nd in the league in PP.

and Gagne is far from a simple product of Forsberg...

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10-12-2006, 11:23 AM
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Hitchcock was never a great coach, as you say, and he never really was a "good" coach. You give a guy a group of players who are good, a good GM and anyone could look good. His only cup championship came in an era of clutch and grab hockey where a pylon like Derian Hatcher was considered a top notch d-man and a (and I'm fighting hard not to laugh) "leader."

Don't get me wrong, I liked it when he came here, but the game has changed and (aside from his Captain Kangaroo mustache) he hasn't changed.

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Old
10-12-2006, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve L View Post
Dont forget, the PP is the easiest thing to fix.

The thing that bugs me in the passiveness and the *****ness of this team, its been like it ever since Hitch took over.



I agree completely, but I would also add lack of emotion. Hitch wants a team of drones.

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10-12-2006, 03:31 PM
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I'd rather have a good PK and be able to score 5 on 5 then to have a PK that allows 3 goals a night and can sometimes be outscored by the PP.

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Old
10-12-2006, 05:05 PM
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Its easy for me to say this now, but I really think were gonna regret giving Hitch 3 more years. I don't think he's fit to coach a team in the new NHL. Sure I might be less likely to say this if we were 4-0, but in the long run it will show more.

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Old
10-12-2006, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyersProspect2 View Post
Its easy for me to say this now, but I really think were gonna regret giving Hitch 3 more years. I don't think he's fit to coach a team in the new NHL. Sure I might be less likely to say this if we were 4-0, but in the long run it will show more.
He can always be fired

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Old
10-12-2006, 06:50 PM
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tytech
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I agree completely, but I would also add lack of emotion. Hitch wants a team of drones.

This is what you want in the playoffs. Not a bunch of guys who panic when they are not in their own barn or panic when scored on first. I like the cool, calm demeanour but it takes one person like Eager to come in and motivate the team. I like silent motivation or good plays that the crowd gets into but nervousness and emotion can spell disaster if things aren't going the way you want.

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10-12-2006, 11:22 PM
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just one?

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10-13-2006, 05:32 AM
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This is what you want in the playoffs. Not a bunch of guys who panic when they are not in their own barn or panic when scored on first. I like the cool, calm demeanour but it takes one person like Eager to come in and motivate the team. I like silent motivation or good plays that the crowd gets into but nervousness and emotion can spell disaster if things aren't going the way you want.
On the other hand we end up with over 50% of the roster injured every year because teams no they can take liberties and no one is allowed to do anything about it.

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10-13-2006, 05:41 AM
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On the other hand we end up with over 50% of the roster injured every year because teams no they can take liberties and no one is allowed to do anything about it.
it's an overrated thing... injuries will happen, and we had some real bad luck with the concussions last year. however, i don't think an enforcer can stop concussions... guys still hit, even if the other team hits back. if anything, hitting begets hitting, which is fine. i'd lilke to have Eager up here less as a deterent and more as a guy who will simply go out there and look to bang on every shift. i think it's a good thing to have on a team.

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10-13-2006, 07:51 AM
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On the other hand we end up with over 50% of the roster injured every year because teams no they can take liberties and no one is allowed to do anything about it.
this is such a ridiculous statement....

Pitkanen, Nitty, Esche, Hatcher, Rathje, Stevenson, Kappy, Zus, Forsberg, Gagne's injuries had absolutely nothing to do with getting hit/cheap shoted by another player. KJ was hit and got a concussion just like Kessler, a ton of other hockey players each year. The only "cheap shot" you could argue would be Primeau and that stuff has happened since hockey has been played.


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Old
10-13-2006, 08:29 AM
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Mythology
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Originally Posted by tytech View Post
This is what you want in the playoffs. Not a bunch of guys who panic when they are not in their own barn or panic when scored on first. I like the cool, calm demeanour but it takes one person like Eager to come in and motivate the team. I like silent motivation or good plays that the crowd gets into but nervousness and emotion can spell disaster if things aren't going the way you want.
To me winning hockey has a lot to do about passion and the just plain drive to win, the willingness to sacrifice more than your opponent does in order to win. Passion and desire to win are emotions, but you are right about being able to control those emotions for the best results. I don't mind the silent focus as long as you can still feel the passion and energy being held back just under the surface. It's a fine line, but I think Hitch pushes the Flyers over the line by insisting on being always in control, making them tentative and taking away too much of the passion and energy. I especially don't think it is good for the younger players where energy and fire are usually bigger parts of their game. I definitely also think you can see a player like Calder trying to adjust and struggling.

Plus it's just plain better for the fans to see a fast paced high energy, higher emotion game. Hitch is still trying to make hockey games slower and boring, thinking it is the best way to consistently win, but a style which I can not stand. It is sad to say and hard to admit but I find teams like the Sabres significantly more entertaining to watch.

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Old
10-13-2006, 11:26 AM
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Steve L*
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Originally Posted by Banger View Post
this is such a ridiculous statement....

Pitkanen, Nitty, Esche, Hatcher, Rathje, Stevenson, Kappy, Zus, Forsberg, Gagne's injuries had absolutely nothing to do with getting hit/cheap shoted by another player. KJ was hit and got a concussion just like Kessler, a ton of other hockey players each year. The only "cheap shot" you could argue would be Primeau and that stuff has happened since hockey has been played.
RJ and others have suffered from cheap hits. I remember a time when the Cambell hit would have resulted in a mass brawl and not players standing around looking at the scoreboard.

Teams know they can attempt to injure and nothing will be done and that kills team morale as youd know if youd been in a sports team.

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10-13-2006, 11:45 AM
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RJ and others have suffered from cheap hits. I remember a time when the Cambell hit would have resulted in a mass brawl and not players standing around looking at the scoreboard.

Teams know they can attempt to injure and nothing will be done and that kills team morale as youd know if youd been in a sports team.
That hasn't changed in the 20+ years I've been watching hockey. There's actually far fewer cheap shots and chippy plays than there were in the past.

The massive brawl never changed anything. Guys that play like that always play like that. You think Gauthier or Kasparitis or any other player is going to change their game? They were the same players before the lockout as they are after.

It's ridiculous to say that it kills morale, utterly ridiculous. I know when I played and someone hit/cheap shotted me or a teammate you didn't have to fight to get back you would pick your spot and get them back. It's no different now than it ever was, now there just isn't any fighting but it doesn't really matter because in the past Kaspar wouldn't fight, the Rags goon would face off against the Flyers goon and what did that accomplish?

You guys seriously have to stop whining about this stuff because it's not gonna change, fighting is gone, deal with it.

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Old
10-13-2006, 03:14 PM
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The problem I see is this. We have a team and a roster that's currently built to play high tempo offensive hockey. Our defense might be a sore spot, but with the exception of Hatcher and Rathje, our defensemen can skate and carry the puck.

The problem is that the system that is in place stresses a defensive system that slows down the pace of the game and the opponents and leave them vulnerable for an attack. The problem is that while this system has worked in the past, it doesn't work anymore. With the rules now being called, players just go whizzing by and not have to worry about being caught up in the slowmanship of the game because they know that players will get called for interference, hooking, holding, etc......

While I think you can still play some sort of defensive hockey, you also have to be quick to embrace offensive hockey. The problem is that offensive hockey hasn't been embraced by the coaching staff yet. Maybe they're worried that with so many youngsters on the roster, they'll forget what their defensive duties are and just float through on their defensive assignments. That would be the only thing I can think of because in junior hockey, Hitchcock was an offensive mastermind in which his teams set records for offensive production throughout the CHL.

I'm also wondering if his love of the military might have something to do in terms of planning defensive hockey. I mean, some of the greatest military manouvers have been defensive and with Hitch being heavily influenced by the military and his profound love for anything military related, maybe he's trying to do something in hockey that would be considered historic........

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Old
10-13-2006, 03:43 PM
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Steve L*
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It's ridiculous to say that it kills morale, utterly ridiculous. I know when I played and someone hit/cheap shotted me or a teammate you didn't have to fight to get back you would pick your spot and get them back. It's no different now than it ever was, now there just isn't any fighting but it doesn't really matter because in the past Kaspar wouldn't fight, the Rags goon would face off against the Flyers goon and what did that accomplish?
You don't go after the goon, goon versus goon fights are dumb. I remember when Gauthier took out some Duck, Fedoruk went out and injured Nedved. I'm pretty sure he would think twice about doing it to the Ducks again now because he knows Gagne or Forsberg would be put out of the line up as revenge.

Not sticking up for team mates does kill morale. Id be incredibly pissed off if someone didn't stick up for me, then Id think there's no way I'm putting my body on the line for them after that. It goes downhill fast after that and you end up with performances like the Sens debacle when only Williams and Cechmanek showed up because no one cares.

The PK has improved because the passiveness has gone, before they just stayed in a box with no pressure on the puck carrier. Now there's constant pressure on the puck carrier. Passiveness of any kind just doesn't work any more.

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