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Old
06-14-2013, 07:11 AM
  #151
BobbyClarkeFan16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Too many people are short-sighted with Braydon Coburn.

If Braydon goes, our defense looks significantly worse. I know, I know...what a crazy thought. But it is true. Coburn had a bad year. I'm confident he will bounce back wonderfully. When he plays physically, he's excellent. He may be the fastest 6'5 guy in the league, so that is always a thrill. Also, he was important on the PK.

Say what you will, but I'm certainly not interested in trading him. I have a feeling he'll make everyone aware as to why he's making the cash that he is and why he's the longest tenured Flyer currently.
I've been a fan and have watched Flyers teams for 35 years now. I can tell you with 100% certainty that Coburn is one of the most talented defensemen there is. However, he's about as bright as a burnt out light bulb when he's on the ice. So infuriating to watch a defenseman who just oozes talent (he can skate, he can hit, he can play positionally, he's physical, he's also got puck carrying skills, he can shoot), but he has absolutely 0 hockey IQ.

Everyone talks about how he needs to be paired with a puck handling defenseman in order for him to be effective. That's so wrong. Look at how well he played when he and Grossmann were paired together. Look at how well he played when he was partnered with guys like Jason Smith and Derian Hatcher. He's so dumb that it kills me to watch all this talent go to waste. And every year, you can guarantee this is like clock work, he starts off the season horribly, he starts to get better and just when you think he's about to turn the corner and put it all together, he falls back into typical Coburn mode.

I've tried to defend the guy. I've really, really, really tried to defend him. But I can't anymore. People talk about how difficult it would be replace him and how 6'5 defenders who can skate don't grow on trees. You can have all the physical talent in the world, but if you're dumb, it just negates everything. And that's what you get with Coburn. At this point, I'd rather just cut bait and let him be someone else's problem. No matter how hard one tries, you just can't fix stupid.

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06-14-2013, 09:38 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I've been a fan and have watched Flyers teams for 35 years now. I can tell you with 100% certainty that Coburn is one of the most talented defensemen there is. However, he's about as bright as a burnt out light bulb when he's on the ice. So infuriating to watch a defenseman who just oozes talent (he can skate, he can hit, he can play positionally, he's physical, he's also got puck carrying skills, he can shoot), but he has absolutely 0 hockey IQ.

Everyone talks about how he needs to be paired with a puck handling defenseman in order for him to be effective. That's so wrong. Look at how well he played when he and Grossmann were paired together. Look at how well he played when he was partnered with guys like Jason Smith and Derian Hatcher. He's so dumb that it kills me to watch all this talent go to waste. And every year, you can guarantee this is like clock work, he starts off the season horribly, he starts to get better and just when you think he's about to turn the corner and put it all together, he falls back into typical Coburn mode.

I've tried to defend the guy. I've really, really, really tried to defend him. But I can't anymore. People talk about how difficult it would be replace him and how 6'5 defenders who can skate don't grow on trees. You can have all the physical talent in the world, but if you're dumb, it just negates everything. And that's what you get with Coburn. At this point, I'd rather just cut bait and let him be someone else's problem. No matter how hard one tries, you just can't fix stupid.
The issue with Coburn, IMO, is not whether the Flyers should trade him, but who will replace him if they do. The Flyers do not have anyone on their roster right now to replace him nor any NHL ready prospects. If they can trade him and or someone else not in the core for an upgrade or a young up and comer who can take his minutes, I say dump him. But just to cut him lose for draft picks or long term prospects without getting a replacement first, is foolish.

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Old
06-14-2013, 10:43 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
The issue with Coburn, IMO, is not whether the Flyers should trade him, but who will replace him if they do. The Flyers do not have anyone on their roster right now to replace him nor any NHL ready prospects. If they can trade him and or someone else not in the core for an upgrade or a young up and comer who can take his minutes, I say dump him. But just to cut him lose for draft picks or long term prospects without getting a replacement first, is foolish.
Agreed....maybe Coburn is dense and doesn't have off the charts hockey IQ like Coots..but again it's like Carle...who do you replace his minutes with...another trifecta of losers like Gervais, Foster and Huskins? You just tripled your stupidity...

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06-14-2013, 11:10 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Agreed....maybe Coburn is dense and doesn't have off the charts hockey IQ like Coots..but again it's like Carle...who do you replace his minutes with...another trifecta of losers like Gervais, Foster and Huskins? You just tripled your stupidity...
Yup, you would think Coburn was making $10M a year while playing AHL caliber defense the way some describe him around here.

I'm not totally against trading Coburn but trading him for futures with no clear replacement is foolish.

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Old
06-14-2013, 12:40 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Im not on the trade coburn boat but i will say grossmann is EASILY the better defender. Grossmann wa played against Malkin and Crosby and did a phenoninal job during the playoffs one year ago.

I have more faith when Grossmann is out there than Coburn. I know Coburn has great skating, he really does, but his other skills really have not improved over the years. Its why he gets exposed each and every time he has his own pairing.
Check out who Grossman's partner was in that PITT series.

i agree that Grossman is probably the better dman from the blue line back with his positioning, size and shot blocking but I believe Coburn gives them an element that none of their other dmen offer. Kimmo can't cover the ground from end to end like he used to and Mez is the next closest thing.

i agree on a Hockey IQ scale Coburn is closer to Dykhuis then Howe but he isn't as bad as people make out. If he was the moron people claim him to be his play wouldn't get better under more pressure like it does during the playoffs. If anything i believe he over thinks instead of using his natural ability. He is at his best when he is using his speed to join the rush or skate the puck up ice but I think he gets pigeon-holed into the idea that he is a defensive dman.

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06-14-2013, 12:51 PM
  #156
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The problem with Coburn is what the fans expect of him. Stop expecting him to be something he's not, and you'll end up quite satisfied with him.

He's paid $4.5m, yes. That's not unreasonable for a solid top four defender with a very unique skill set.

If we keep trying to make him the anchor on a defensive pairing, we will be disappointed every time. He is an effective player, and he makes the team better, brain farts and all.

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Old
06-14-2013, 01:14 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Darren Dreger‏@DarrenDreger20m
While the Flyers work on a contract for Mark Streit, preliminary discussions on extending Claude Giroux's contract have also begun
Give Giroux whatever he wants

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Old
06-14-2013, 01:21 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Ryan Miller (we can retain salary on him) and Andrej Sekera for Sean Couturier. Thoughts?
doesnt even get evaluated in my opinion, NO!

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Old
06-14-2013, 01:26 PM
  #159
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Give Giroux whatever he wants
So long as he wants 8 years, $60 million.

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06-14-2013, 01:35 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
So long as he wants 8 years, $60 million.

will prob get somewhere in the neighborhood of 8yrs 70M. somewhere around what Perry got, but hes better than Perry and younger.... contract will also incorporate his prime years will start at 27 end when hes 34. He still hasn't maxed out his potential, and it really seems unlikely that he gives a hometown discount. G has ALL the leverage here IMO

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Old
06-14-2013, 02:03 PM
  #161
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He's a RFA at the end of this year upcoming. He has a lot of leverage, but not all of it. Still. A lot.

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06-14-2013, 02:34 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Stizz09 View Post
will prob get somewhere in the neighborhood of 8yrs 70M. somewhere around what Perry got, but hes better than Perry and younger.... contract will also incorporate his prime years will start at 27 end when hes 34. He still hasn't maxed out his potential, and it really seems unlikely that he gives a hometown discount. G has ALL the leverage here IMO
Perry was going to be a UFA and already had a Hart Trophy to his name. He had a lot more leverage than Giroux does.

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Old
06-14-2013, 05:37 PM
  #163
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What about Matt Moulson...think he'd be a good fit?

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Old
06-14-2013, 05:43 PM
  #164
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What about Matt Moulson...think he'd be a good fit?
He still has a year left on his contract so it would have to be through trade.

I feel like with Hartnell here he would be kind of pointless to acquire right now. If Hartnell has a bad year next year and Moulson hits free agency then maybe.

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Old
06-14-2013, 09:21 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Yup, you would think Coburn was making $10M a year while playing AHL caliber defense the way some describe him around here.

I'm not totally against trading Coburn but trading him for futures with no clear replacement is foolish.
I know, I'll admit he can be frustrating to watch but things always get blown way out of proportion in Philly. Additionally he only has 3 yrs left on his contract at 4.5 mil far fom terrible IMO.

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Old
06-14-2013, 09:50 PM
  #166
Larry44
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I've been a fan and have watched Flyers teams for 35 years now. I can tell you with 100% certainty that Coburn is one of the most talented defensemen there is. However, he's about as bright as a burnt out light bulb when he's on the ice. So infuriating to watch a defenseman who just oozes talent (he can skate, he can hit, he can play positionally, he's physical, he's also got puck carrying skills, he can shoot), but he has absolutely 0 hockey IQ.

Everyone talks about how he needs to be paired with a puck handling defenseman in order for him to be effective. That's so wrong. Look at how well he played when he and Grossmann were paired together. Look at how well he played when he was partnered with guys like Jason Smith and Derian Hatcher. He's so dumb that it kills me to watch all this talent go to waste. And every year, you can guarantee this is like clock work, he starts off the season horribly, he starts to get better and just when you think he's about to turn the corner and put it all together, he falls back into typical Coburn mode.

I've tried to defend the guy. I've really, really, really tried to defend him. But I can't anymore. People talk about how difficult it would be replace him and how 6'5 defenders who can skate don't grow on trees. You can have all the physical talent in the world, but if you're dumb, it just negates everything. And that's what you get with Coburn. At this point, I'd rather just cut bait and let him be someone else's problem. No matter how hard one tries, you just can't fix stupid.
The Flyers went to the finals with Coburn logging huge amount of ice with Kimmo. I like him and there is no way we should trade him. I disagree that he's dumb. On the contrary, I think he overthinks the game when he's not playing well. He is clearly hard on himself, so he cares. That's good. We could see, when he and Grossmann and Mesz went out, how well the team played with kids like Gus, Lauridsen, Konan and Manning just keeping it simple.

When Streit signs he should be paired with Luke Schenn. Streit has been paired with Gervais and Carkner, among others, so he's used to being with a RH partner.

Streit-Schenn
Timonen-Coburn
Grossmann-Meszaros-Gustafsson - not sure if Grossmann's healthy or Mesz will be back, but two of these guys will be a good third pair.
Gervais

A further thought on the D. Much is being made of the sacrilege of moving Kimmo off PP1 unit. This has to happen for a simple reason. IF Gus is in the the lineup, someone has to kill penalties.

PP points

Streit-Voracek
Timonen-Gustafsson

PK
Grossmann-Coburn
Timonen-Schenn#

This will help balance out the ice time too...


Last edited by Larry44: 06-14-2013 at 10:06 PM.
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06-14-2013, 10:44 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
He still has a year left on his contract so it would have to be through trade.

I feel like with Hartnell here he would be kind of pointless to acquire right now. If Hartnell has a bad year next year and Moulson hits free agency then maybe.
How is moulson at all comparable to hartnell?

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06-14-2013, 10:56 PM
  #168
LegionOfDoom91
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How is moulson at all comparable to hartnell?
They're both triggermen at the forward position. I wasn't literally dissecting their complete games and saying they were comparable.

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Old
06-14-2013, 11:09 PM
  #169
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Don't see Kimmo moving from the first unit. Not saying he's irreplaceable (he played second unit when Pronger was healthy), but him and G are too good together. Streit is a first unit guy on most teams, but between G, Kimmo, and Jake there's no spot for him. The second unit was terrible to say the least last year. There was no go to guy on that unit. No one that could control the play. I said it multiple times before the year last year they needed a PP QB after Carle left. They never found that guy and the unit struggled big time. Streit can be that guy.

I still think/hope another piece will be added. If it's Yandle, I would think he'd play on the first unit. Shattenkirk? I'm not sure if he'd be as good paired with G considering he's a right hand shot which always had me curious how Weber would have fit in on the PP considering the setup Lavi uses.

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Old
06-14-2013, 11:26 PM
  #170
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Move Coots to D and then we don't need to trade him

seriously tho. I like that Striet will help with the 2nd PP provided he sticks there. MORE balance and patience on the point. Calming influence.

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Old
06-15-2013, 04:01 AM
  #171
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Ducks fan here in peace...

Assuming you guys buyout Brzygalov, would the Flyers be open for a trade involving Hiller? Return could be Meszaros and maybe a pick. Or staight up. Is the value bad for you, or a decent foundation for a trade scenario? Both players still have 1 year left on their contracts and have pretty similar cap hits (4.5 Hiller and 4 Meszaros).


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Old
06-15-2013, 04:19 AM
  #172
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Any chance of

Coburn+ for BigBuff

OR

Coburn++ for Tyler Myers?

Meszaros flipped for a pick to a cap floor team.

Timonen - BigBuff/Myers
Streit - Schenn
Grossmann - Gustafsson

Lauridsen/Manning/Bourdon


Looks solid to me. What do you think?

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Old
06-15-2013, 05:10 AM
  #173
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I don't want Big Buff anywhere close to the Flyers. He would gain a lot more weight here with all the cheesesteaks he will most likely eat.

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Old
06-15-2013, 07:36 AM
  #174
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Ducks fan here in peace...

Assuming you guys buyout Brzygalov, would the Flyers be open for a trade involving Hiller? Return could be Meszaros and maybe a pick. Or staight up. Is the value bad for you, or a decent foundation for a trade scenario? Both players still have 1 year left on their contracts and have pretty similar cap hits (4.5 Hiller and 4 Meszaros).
I would jump at that offer.

Mezaros may fully recover from his injuries and go back to being a solid player, but I can't see that happening in Philly.

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Old
06-15-2013, 09:44 AM
  #175
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Ducks fan here in peace...

Assuming you guys buyout Brzygalov, would the Flyers be open for a trade involving Hiller? Return could be Meszaros and maybe a pick. Or staight up. Is the value bad for you, or a decent foundation for a trade scenario? Both players still have 1 year left on their contracts and have pretty similar cap hits (4.5 Hiller and 4 Meszaros).
If we get Streit signed then I would do it. We could roll with Mason and Hiller this year and then make our decision next offseason. Not a bad deal at all

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