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What did Chicago do to get back to the SCF that the Penguins didn't?

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Old
06-14-2013, 07:34 PM
  #76
EbonyRaptor
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I think a lot of you guys are overreacting a little bit after the sting of getting swept. The big question facing the Hawks the last couple years of losing in the 1st round was whether they were built to win in the regular season but not the playoffs when the games got more physical and there were less penalties called so opposing teams could slow the Hawks down more than in the regular season. The prevailing opinion by most Hawks fans bought into that thinking and were upset that Bowman didn't add more beef and grit - the supposed missing ingredients. The reality of the past two platoffs were injuries in 2011 against the Canucks and it still went to OT in Game 7 before the Canucks won, and then in 2012, 5 of the 6 games went to OT and the Hawks almost doubled the number of shots that Phoenix had for the series. But Hossa was knocked out early in the series (literally) and Shaw was suspended and Mike Smith's save percentage was around .950 for the series.

So all that means is the majority of Hawk fans thought major changes were needed when in reality the Hawks weren't that far away from having the same success they are having this playoffs.

If I had to name one thing that the Pens could have done differently - it would be to have composure when things started going against them. The Pens played pretty well in the beginning of Game 1 and Games 3 and 4 in Boston. It was the implosion during the last 5 periods in Pittsburgh that was their downfall. I think that belongs not only on Bylsma, but also Sid and the othe rveteran leadership. Hawks fans saw something similar when Toews lost his composure against Detroit and the Wings won games 2 - 4. For whatever reason, Toews and the Hawks regrouped and turned the series around. Sid and his teammates didn't do that until they were 0-2 going to Boston.

Long post - but the message is you guys have two of the best players in the world and some other very good players and you need to take Bowman's approach and stay the coarse more than think wholesale changes are needed.

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06-14-2013, 07:38 PM
  #77
NeedleInTheHay
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
And yet Sharp still scores 30 a year, while adding about 10 other dimensions.

You're not winning this one.
First off I never said one was better than the other. And second of all James Neal has scored 61 goals in the past 2 seasons, Patrick Sharp has scored 39. That's a pretty big gap, and it's not like Sharp is winning Selke awards either.

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06-15-2013, 12:02 AM
  #78
Tender Rip
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Just to add to what has been said...

- JQ was able to calm his team down and get them to focus when they were imploding agt Detroit and he helped his captain out by putting him on a stacked line with Sharp and Kane. Toews was losing his mind and JQ helped get it right again.

Keep in mind JQ has had his fair share of criticism over the last couple of years, so it isn't as if he is a perfect coach without flaws.

However, JQ did all the right moves to get his team rolling again, while DB made quite odd decisions and for the second year in a row was unable to stop his team from snowballing into another meltdown.

- One thing I noticed in game one, is that Boston was having trouble accounting for Hossa. He is that third wheel to Kane and Toews, that the Pens lack. He is dangerous with the puck and a beast on the forecheck. They were trying to actually get Chara on him and JQ was doing a nice job of keeping Hossa away from Chara and letting him kill Boston.

This is the kind of guy many of us have been begging for Shero to get as a LTS, but instead it's like Groundhogs day with the same straight line players. I'm sure Dupuis will be back and the same posters will buy into his regular season success with Crosby.

If people didn't finally learn what many of us have been saying about both Dupuis and Kunitz hurting Crosby in tight checking playoff series after this year, they will never get it (and I doubt DB will either).

I know part of the problem is Crosby has "Kip Miller syndrome" with Dupuis, so I expect to keep seeing the same thing every playoff season until Shero, Crosby and DB all learn what the meaning of insanity actually is...
I want to say that I agree with all of this. And I do. Very good post.

BUT, I will also have to say that as great a player as Hossa is, and as much as everyone could use someone like him, I cannot accept us talking about roster limitations to account for what happened this post-season. That goes for any Sharp or Bickell talk also. Very good players, but that isn't it.
We had the pieces, but we didn't solve the puzzle.

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06-15-2013, 01:04 AM
  #79
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I want to say that I agree with all of this. And I do. Very good post.

BUT, I will also have to say that as great a player as Hossa is, and as much as everyone could use someone like him, I cannot accept us talking about roster limitations to account for what happened this post-season. That goes for any Sharp or Bickell talk also. Very good players, but that isn't it.
We had the pieces, but we didn't solve the puzzle.
Despite all that could go wrong, I like the Pens chances of getting that one extra goal they usually need with Hossa flanking Crosby instead of Dupuis.

We know how that Crosby/Kip Miller story always ends.

[

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06-15-2013, 01:16 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Despite all that could go wrong, I like the Pens chances of getting that one extra goal they usually need with Hossa flanking Crosby instead of Dupuis.

We know how that Crosby/Kip Miller story always ends.

[
Yes, and we have Malkin as our second line C and they have Handzsuz.
The point is that it was on our coaching staff to assemble the right fits and not give us the Kip Miller situation - again. We had all the guns we could need and we are not going to be this stacked again for years.

I dont want to hear any excuses as regards the roster. It simply blinds us from what matters.

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06-15-2013, 01:44 AM
  #81
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Yes, and we have Malkin as our second line C and they have Handzsuz.
The point is that it was on our coaching staff to assemble the right fits and not give us the Kip Miller situation - again. We had all the guns we could need and we are not going to be this stacked again for years.

I dont want to hear any excuses as regards the roster. It simply blinds us from what matters.
Sharp was being bounced around and playing second line pivot. JQ was line dancing to get things going. When he was there, Sharp and Towes each had someone who could create and carry the puck on their line.

It was rare Hossa, Sharp, Towes or Kane were on the ice without at least one other talented and creative guy supporting them.

So no, it's not an excuse, it's the Pennsylvania Polka:

Strike up the music the band has begun
The Pennsylvania Polka
Pick out your (same) partner and join in the fun (or insanity)
The Pennsylvania Polka

Despite DB mistakes/Crosby and Malkin choking, I'm still quite sure having Hossa in place of Dupuis would of made a difference.

It's more difficult to defend Crosby and Malkin when they aren't forced to be carrying the puck. Much easier to find gaps when you have someone who can draw defenders, buy you time and get you the puck in said gaps.

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06-15-2013, 02:04 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Sharp was being bounced around and playing second line pivot. JQ was line dancing to get things going. When he was there, Sharp and Towes each had someone who could create and carry the puck on their line.

It was rare Hossa, Sharp, Towes or Kane were on the ice without at least one other talented and creative guy supporting them.

So no, it's not an excuse, it's the Pennsylvania Polka:

Strike up the music the band has begun
The Pennsylvania Polka
Pick out your (same) partner and join in the fun (or insanity)
The Pennsylvania Polka

Despite DB mistakes/Crosby and Malkin choking, I'm still quite sure having Hossa in place of Dupuis would of made a difference.

It's more difficult to defend Crosby and Malkin when they aren't forced to be carrying the puck. Much easier to find gaps when you have someone who can draw defenders, buy you time and get you the puck in said gaps.
Argh! ****ing stop!
Of course it should make a difference, but go back to the time before we got Iggy and you said EXACTLY the same about him. That SHOULD have made a difference also.

I can say that maybe things would have been different if we had Chara. Yes, and so what?
We lost with who we had. Who we had should have been well good enough.
Talking about Hossa or any other player being missed by our team is totally besides the point. That we used the ressources at hand terribly is not.

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06-15-2013, 03:55 AM
  #83
Jules Winnfield
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Honestly, I think part of the Pens problem is that the team's offense goes as far as Crosby/Malkin takes them. It's as if every player on the Pens feeds off of Crosby/Malkin instead of just doing the fundamentals it takes to get scoring chances. Passing up shots to make the perfect play with Crosby/Malkin, etc.

Even though the Hawks have Toews/Kane, their team is much different in terms of their secondary scoring. They have guys that can carry the play regardless of Toews/Kane scoring. For the most part, Toews has been playing a shutdown role in all the playoff games. Hossa, Sharp, Saad, Frolik, and Bolland are all effective players with carrying the puck into the other team's zone with speed. Outside of Crosby/Malkin, who do we really have that does that on a consistent basis?

The Hawks also have a phenomenally balanced defensive 6 man unit. They pretty much have 6 guys that are all solid two way defensemen. Their 5-6 guys would be in most teams top 4. Keith/Seabrook is one of the best overall pairings in the NHL. Those guys are a treat to watch. They put on a clinic in the offensive and defensive zone.

When you watch the Hawks play Boston, watch how much their forwards bring the puck into Boston's zone with speed. Boston looked overwhelmed at times.

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06-15-2013, 04:30 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield

When you watch the Hawks play Boston, watch how much their forwards bring the puck into Boston's zone with speed. Boston looked overwhelmed at times.
1: all their secondary players are that much better at carrying the puck compared to Neal, Kunitz, Iginla, Bennett, Jokinen, Sutter etc. ... or...

2: our system is ass/the way we execute our system is ass?

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06-15-2013, 05:51 AM
  #85
TravisUlrich
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
Honestly, I think part of the Pens problem is that the team's offense goes as far as Crosby/Malkin takes them. It's as if every player on the Pens feeds off of Crosby/Malkin instead of just doing the fundamentals it takes to get scoring chances. Passing up shots to make the perfect play with Crosby/Malkin, etc.

Even though the Hawks have Toews/Kane, their team is much different in terms of their secondary scoring. They have guys that can carry the play regardless of Toews/Kane scoring. For the most part, Toews has been playing a shutdown role in all the playoff games. Hossa, Sharp, Saad, Frolik, and Bolland are all effective players with carrying the puck into the other team's zone with speed. Outside of Crosby/Malkin, who do we really have that does that on a consistent basis?

The Hawks also have a phenomenally balanced defensive 6 man unit. They pretty much have 6 guys that are all solid two way defensemen. Their 5-6 guys would be in most teams top 4. Keith/Seabrook is one of the best overall pairings in the NHL. Those guys are a treat to watch. They put on a clinic in the offensive and defensive zone.

When you watch the Hawks play Boston, watch how much their forwards bring the puck into Boston's zone with speed. Boston looked overwhelmed at times.
I kind of agree with this. In the regular season we score with Sid & Geno in the lineup, we score without them in the lineup. Superstars play differently, as evidence, look at who the Giveaway leaders are in the NHL - usually superstars. Sid & Geno got shutout, yes, part of that was bad puck luck, part of that was the good defensive play by Boston but then where was the secondary scoring?

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06-15-2013, 05:55 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
I think a lot of you guys are overreacting a little bit after the sting of getting swept. The big question facing the Hawks the last couple years of losing in the 1st round was whether they were built to win in the regular season but not the playoffs when the games got more physical and there were less penalties called so opposing teams could slow the Hawks down more than in the regular season. The prevailing opinion by most Hawks fans bought into that thinking and were upset that Bowman didn't add more beef and grit - the supposed missing ingredients. The reality of the past two platoffs were injuries in 2011 against the Canucks and it still went to OT in Game 7 before the Canucks won, and then in 2012, 5 of the 6 games went to OT and the Hawks almost doubled the number of shots that Phoenix had for the series. But Hossa was knocked out early in the series (literally) and Shaw was suspended and Mike Smith's save percentage was around .950 for the series.

So all that means is the majority of Hawk fans thought major changes were needed when in reality the Hawks weren't that far away from having the same success they are having this playoffs.

If I had to name one thing that the Pens could have done differently - it would be to have composure when things started going against them. The Pens played pretty well in the beginning of Game 1 and Games 3 and 4 in Boston. It was the implosion during the last 5 periods in Pittsburgh that was their downfall. I think that belongs not only on Bylsma, but also Sid and the othe rveteran leadership. Hawks fans saw something similar when Toews lost his composure against Detroit and the Wings won games 2 - 4. For whatever reason, Toews and the Hawks regrouped and turned the series around. Sid and his teammates didn't do that until they were 0-2 going to Boston.

Long post - but the message is you guys have two of the best players in the world and some other very good players and you need to take Bowman's approach and stay the coarse more than think wholesale changes are needed.
Good post. I do think, however, that *some* turnover is necessary year-to-year but overall we're in a good spot. Fleury is a big question mark in my mind though and if he indeed can't do the job again, that's $5M you've got wrapped up in a backup.

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06-15-2013, 07:09 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Argh! ****ing stop!
Of course it should make a difference, but go back to the time before we got Iggy and you said EXACTLY the same about him. That SHOULD have made a difference also.
This is definitely true. Shero thought he had that 3rd guy when he brought in Iginla. He doesn't seem like he was blind to the value of that third guy that can create. He was just wrong about what Iginla was at this stage of his career.

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06-15-2013, 07:15 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Yes, and we have Malkin as our second line C and they have Handzsuz.
The point is that it was on our coaching staff to assemble the right fits and not give us the Kip Miller situation - again. We had all the guns we could need and we are not going to be this stacked again for years.

I dont want to hear any excuses as regards the roster. It simply blinds us from what matters.
Fully agree about the Pens and I hate that they even bring up bad bounces and puck luck in their year end interviews. IMO the Pens had what it takes to beat the B's as far as players. Without question they lack speed but that can be taken care of with puck management.

The Pens just blew it and it was almost an organizational collapse. The players played like ass for most of the series, the coaches refused to stray from their game plan, Shero brought in slow players for a speed system and upset chemistry at the end of the year and the Pens reek of Mario's "sittin at the dock of the bay" attitude and need for loosy goosy hockey.

Another thing is that the Hawks can throw out two great duo's in Toews, Kane, Hossa and Sharp. So it might go even past having three quality stars. Add in players like Handzsuz, Saad and Shaw and that's a really good top 6 no matter who plays with who.

Another player that gets lost in the mix is Frolik. I've always liked him and he could have been had for a song this year. You put him with Malkin/ Neal and give him some 2nd unit PP time and I think he turns into a Voracek type player. He doesn't go out and bang but he uses his speed and skill to hunt pucks, support plays and play a pretty good two way game.

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06-15-2013, 09:48 AM
  #89
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Argh! ****ing stop!
Of course it should make a difference, but go back to the time before we got Iggy and you said EXACTLY the same about him. That SHOULD have made a difference also.

I can say that maybe things would have been different if we had Chara. Yes, and so what?
We lost with who we had. Who we had should have been well good enough.
Talking about Hossa or any other player being missed by our team is totally besides the point. That we used the ressources at hand terribly is not.
And I know you want to blame DB for everything from Taman Shud to the '93 upset, but once again there is plenty of blame to go around.

Crosby, from all accounts, wants Dupuis and Kunitz on his line. Hence the Kip Miller syndrome. From what I've read and heard directly out of his mouth, he preferred to play with those guys.

Should DB finally of changed it up and tried Iggy there? Duh. He didn't and I'm sure Crosby's preference had something to do with it.

Crosby needs to get over the Kip Miller syndrome, because as I just said, having another linemate who can draw attention to him is a must in today's system driven, defensive oriented NHL, if you want to get to the Finals.

Shero, DB AND Crosby need to all realize that or we will keep doing the PA Polka...

It's catchy at least...

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06-15-2013, 12:24 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
And I know you want to blame DB for everything from Taman Shud to the '93 upset, but once again there is plenty of blame to go around.

Crosby, from all accounts, wants Dupuis and Kunitz on his line. Hence the Kip Miller syndrome. From what I've read and heard directly out of his mouth, he preferred to play with those guys.

Should DB finally of changed it up and tried Iggy there? Duh. He didn't and I'm sure Crosby's preference had something to do with it.

Crosby needs to get over the Kip Miller syndrome, because as I just said, having another linemate who can draw attention to him is a must in today's system driven, defensive oriented NHL, if you want to get to the Finals.

Shero, DB AND Crosby need to all realize that or we will keep doing the PA Polka...

It's catchy at least...

Yep. I'll agree here, there's not much team aspect going on with that lockerroom/coach.

There's so much they could do to give them the edge and egos are getting in the way.

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06-16-2013, 01:21 AM
  #91
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And I know you want to blame DB for everything from Taman Shud to the '93 upset, but once again there is plenty of blame to go around.
Sure there is. I have said so myself on several occasions.

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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Crosby, from all accounts, wants Dupuis and Kunitz on his line. Hence the Kip Miller syndrome. From what I've read and heard directly out of his mouth, he preferred to play with those guys.

Should DB finally of changed it up and tried Iggy there? Duh. He didn't and I'm sure Crosby's preference had something to do with it.

Crosby needs to get over the Kip Miller syndrome, because as I just said, having another linemate who can draw attention to him is a must in today's system driven, defensive oriented NHL, if you want to get to the Finals.

Shero, DB AND Crosby need to all realize that or we will keep doing the PA Polka...

It's catchy at least...
All I was saying, while initially agreeing with your overall point, is that you/we shouldn't talk about roster deficiencies after this loss.

The 'Kip Miller' thing, no matter if Sid is being a baby (which is possible, although Dupuis' anecdote about Bylsma immediately telling him that he is still with Sid after they learned of the Iginla trade seems to me to be an even more clear indication of Bylsma's intent than anything Sid ever said) it is very much Bylsma's responsibility to change up and try other solutions if option A doesn't work.

We could have put Iginla there, we could have put Bennett there, we could have put Jokinen there, we could have gone with Sid and Malkin on the same line (curiously only happened with Neal more or less), we could have done lots of different things with line 1, and there were obviously alternatives to go to on line 2 outside of putting Cooke there also. I love Cooke, but we pretty much had a HANDFUL of more logical top6 choices. Bennett goes there for a shift or two and looks a much better solution.... back to the 4th line and 10 minutes per.

Hell, for the short time that Iginla was on the first line, we were actually successful. 10 bad minutes to open a second period against Ottawa, in a game we were winning easily, was what it took to have it scrapped for good.

I repeat, I agree with your overall points here, just don't make the detour of taking roster deficiencies (Hossa) when we used the wealth of riches we had as poorly as we did. There is nothing to say that Bylsma would have put Hossa with Sid anyway, and IF we need still more star forwards for Sid and Malkin to perform, then something is really, really wrong.

Yes, our stars should have done more regardless. Yes, in hindsight some of Shero's deadline deals were likely not what we needed. But certainly, it is hard to evaluate Shero's deals fairly with how those forwards were used. That is not on Shero.
If Crosby is a baby about his toys, then it is a challenge for a coach for sure, but you do NOT go 4 games of a conference final doing nothing to change anything when you simply cannot score and gets ZERO production from your top guys. I don't care if Sid had been kicking and screaming (I don't believe he would have), you attempt to break the losing pattern and ask new questions of your opponent.

I simply have a much harder time blaming guys who put in the effort without getting success (and outside of game two there was no lack of effort) than blaming a coach who watch them do the same over and over and over again while doing nothing other than saying "follow my way, it will come". If it had, he'd have looked a genius and be hailed as such. It didn't, you know which door step the turd is at.

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06-16-2013, 01:28 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
And I know you want to blame DB for everything from Taman Shud to the '93 upset, but once again there is plenty of blame to go around.

Crosby, from all accounts, wants Dupuis and Kunitz on his line. Hence the Kip Miller syndrome. From what I've read and heard directly out of his mouth, he preferred to play with those guys.

Should DB finally of changed it up and tried Iggy there? Duh. He didn't and I'm sure Crosby's preference had something to do with it.

Crosby needs to get over the Kip Miller syndrome, because as I just said, having another linemate who can draw attention to him is a must in today's system driven, defensive oriented NHL, if you want to get to the Finals.

Shero, DB AND Crosby need to all realize that or we will keep doing the PA Polka...

It's catchy at least...
In a way, this is exactly why I'm actually hoping Dupuis prices himself out of town. I like the player Dupuis is, and think he'd be a perfect player ... on the third line. But as long as Dupuis is a Penguin, he'll be flanking Crosby each and every season, even with better options available.

So it seems like the only way that situation will change is if the Pens are forced to play someone else on Crosby's wing because Dupuis is no longer an option.

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06-16-2013, 01:41 AM
  #93
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They don't have this guy.

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06-16-2013, 01:41 AM
  #94
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In a way, this is exactly why I'm actually hoping Dupuis prices himself out of town. I like the player Dupuis is, and think he'd be a perfect player ... on the third line. But as long as Dupuis is a Penguin, he'll be flanking Crosby each and every season, even with better options available.

So it seems like the only way that situation will change is if the Pens are forced to play someone else on Crosby's wing because Dupuis is no longer an option.
Its a tricky situation because I actually like Sid and Dupes together. I just don't like Kunitz, Sid and Dupuis together. If the Pens could roll out Ryan-Crosby-Dupuis... I'm happy.

IMO Duper fits if Sid has that 35-40 goal player on one side of him.

Its like putting Lemieux with Errey and Bourque. Both were very good defensively and could score at a pretty good clip but in the end Mario needed that player that could create on his own.

I also think that Iggy could fit there. I don't think he's finished just because he didn't overly play well for the Pens but he just doesn't fit this system at all.

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06-16-2013, 01:45 AM
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Its a tricky situation because I actually like Sid and Dupes together. I just don't like Kunitz, Sid and Dupuis together. If the Pens could roll out Ryan-Crosby-Dupuis... I'm happy.

IMO Duper fits if Sid has that 35-40 goal player on one side of him.

Its like putting Lemieux with Errey and Bourque. Both were very good defensively and could score at a pretty good clip but in the end Mario needed that player that could create on his own.

I also think that Iggy could fit there. I don't think he's finished just because he didn't overly play well for the Pens but he just doesn't fit this system at all.
Well, yeah, obviously if they play a star winger on the other wing then Dupuis is okay as a third wheel. But I'm going under the assumption that Kunitz is the other winger, and thus Dupuis being on the team means Sid's got the same "two third wheel" wingers that see him get smothered quite easily in the playoffs.

Of course, even if the Pens added Bobby Ryan, Bylsma would likely not touch the Kunitz/Crosby/Dupuis trio. He'd just force Ryan to play a position he's never played before.

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06-16-2013, 07:45 AM
  #96
Ogrezilla
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I agree that something like Ryan - Sid - Dupuis would be fine. But Ryan - Sid - Bennett/Kunitz would be too. And Bennett is a hell of a lot cheaper than Dupuis will be while Kunitz is simply a better top 6 forward than Dupuis. Dupuis as the passable top 6 third wheel only makes sense when he's cheap.

Kunitz and Dupuis are both similar in that they are third wheel type guys. Kunitz is the better version of the same type of player. Dupuis has been the economic version. Take away the cheap price tag and he simply becomes the worse version.

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06-16-2013, 10:23 AM
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Mr Jiggyfly
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Sure there is. I have said so myself on several occasions.



All I was saying, while initially agreeing with your overall point, is that you/we shouldn't talk about roster deficiencies after this loss.

The 'Kip Miller' thing, no matter if Sid is being a baby (which is possible, although Dupuis' anecdote about Bylsma immediately telling him that he is still with Sid after they learned of the Iginla trade seems to me to be an even more clear indication of Bylsma's intent than anything Sid ever said) it is very much Bylsma's responsibility to change up and try other solutions if option A doesn't work.

We could have put Iginla there, we could have put Bennett there, we could have put Jokinen there, we could have gone with Sid and Malkin on the same line (curiously only happened with Neal more or less), we could have done lots of different things with line 1, and there were obviously alternatives to go to on line 2 outside of putting Cooke there also. I love Cooke, but we pretty much had a HANDFUL of more logical top6 choices. Bennett goes there for a shift or two and looks a much better solution.... back to the 4th line and 10 minutes per.

Hell, for the short time that Iginla was on the first line, we were actually successful. 10 bad minutes to open a second period against Ottawa, in a game we were winning easily, was what it took to have it scrapped for good.

I repeat, I agree with your overall points here, just don't make the detour of taking roster deficiencies (Hossa) when we used the wealth of riches we had as poorly as we did. There is nothing to say that Bylsma would have put Hossa with Sid anyway, and IF we need still more star forwards for Sid and Malkin to perform, then something is really, really wrong.

Yes, our stars should have done more regardless. Yes, in hindsight some of Shero's deadline deals were likely not what we needed. But certainly, it is hard to evaluate Shero's deals fairly with how those forwards were used. That is not on Shero.
If Crosby is a baby about his toys, then it is a challenge for a coach for sure, but you do NOT go 4 games of a conference final doing nothing to change anything when you simply cannot score and gets ZERO production from your top guys. I don't care if Sid had been kicking and screaming (I don't believe he would have), you attempt to break the losing pattern and ask new questions of your opponent.

I simply have a much harder time blaming guys who put in the effort without getting success (and outside of game two there was no lack of effort) than blaming a coach who watch them do the same over and over and over again while doing nothing other than saying "follow my way, it will come". If it had, he'd have looked a genius and be hailed as such. It didn't, you know which door step the turd is at.
No matter how much we go back and forth on this, we know that either DB was too stubborn to try Iggy with Crosby or Crosby wanted to stay with his guys and felt strongly they would break through. I think in this case both Crosby and DB should take some blame.

On the other side of the coin, I've felt all along BB should of been kept with Malkin, but he wasn't and I blasted DB about that for months, really.

However, the Dupuis-Crosby thing isn't going anywhere, which was basically my point. He will be re-signed and attached to Crosby's hip, and we both know how that story ends every season.

We are going to keep having déjà vu until they finally realize Crosby needs a creative puck handler on his line.

Maybe BB becomes Crosby's winger and they click. I have no idea, I just know we are going to see another 2-3 seasons of Crosby-Dupuis when Dupes re-ups soon.

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06-16-2013, 10:46 AM
  #98
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
No matter how much we go back and forth on this, we know that either DB was too stubborn to try Iggy with Crosby or Crosby wanted to stay with his guys and felt strongly they would break through. I think in this case both Crosby and DB should take some blame.

On the other side of the coin, I've felt all along BB should of been kept with Malkin, but he wasn't and I blasted DB about that for months, really.

However, the Dupuis-Crosby thing isn't going anywhere, which was basically my point. He will be re-signed and attached to Crosby's hip, and we both know how that story ends every season.

We are going to keep having déjà vu until they finally realize Crosby needs a creative puck handler on his line.

Maybe BB becomes Crosby's winger and they click. I have no idea, I just know we are going to see another 2-3 seasons of Crosby-Dupuis when Dupes re-ups soon.
Crosby will never have a winger younger than he is. They won't move Kunitz or Dupuis from his line. It's all quite frustrating.

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06-16-2013, 11:04 AM
  #99
eXile59
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People are going way too in depth about this when the answer is simple.

They play defense.

Why are they a good defensive team and we aren't? That requires a in depth answer. Is it the coach, the players, the club atmosphere ect... For one reason or another they play defense & we don't.

For one reason or another this team sees defense as that ugly thing that get's in the way of scoring goals. We think we can just outscore everyone & the Bruins proved that's just not true.

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06-16-2013, 11:12 AM
  #100
Mr Jiggyfly
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Crosby will never have a winger younger than he is. They won't move Kunitz or Dupuis from his line. It's all quite frustrating.
Maybe Kunitz plays with Malkin and BB clicks with Crosby. That's about the best we can hope for at this point.

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