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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 11.0

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Old
06-15-2013, 09:08 AM
  #526
onice
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Don't forget Desjardins was traded in the off - season after that great playoffs he had. That must have hurt and he was just coming into his prime at the time.
He was my favorite d-man on that team. I was more pissed at trading him than Leclair.

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06-15-2013, 09:23 AM
  #527
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Don't forget Desjardins was traded in the off - season after that great playoffs he had. That must have hurt and he was just coming into his prime at the time.
Desjardins had to go for his own good, he was the fans whipping boy, constantly being booed whenever turning over the puck.

Those fans must regret booing him out-of-town after the good career he had after he left.

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Old
06-15-2013, 09:29 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
Desjardins had to go for his own good, he was the fans whipping boy, constantly being booed whenever turning over the puck.

Those fans must regret booing him out-of-town after the good career he had after he left.
People booing are not fans, they're idiots, simply. And seeing as they booed other players who had great time elsewhere, I don't think they know they're idiots.

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Old
06-15-2013, 09:49 AM
  #529
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Leafs' fans are talking about trading up for the 3rd overall pick. I feel like this happens every year!
Some dumbass on hockey buzz said they'll trade for Lecavalier and the 3rd overall. I don't think many believe that. Just a few. Pretty much the same amount that would believe it if the Habs were rumored to be doing so.

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Old
06-15-2013, 10:10 AM
  #530
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Mueller may go top 15.. dreaming red white and blue technicolor if you think he's available at 55..same with Diaby in the 70's..I don't expect him to be there at 55...if he is you snap him up. In fact..if he's still on the board in the late 40's I could see the Habs surrendering a third rounder to move up to get him.

Mantha played on the pk quite a bit, and there's no doubt that he could be dangerous...he likes to basket hang at times..he has a knack for getting sprung behind the opponent's defence for breakaways both at even strength and on the PK. He is not averse to throwing hits, and I even saw him drop the gloves a couple of times (against much smaller opponents) and fare well in a scrap. He has good speed and a great shot..there are no doubts that he's an intriguing prospect, and will likely be picked somewhere in the 15-25 range because of his positive traits - size, speed, shot, skill, offensive hockey sense.

There are some question marks however - he took too many nights off, especially when the going got rough and the checking was tight. He does not like to get hit, and no one is going to describe him as gritty. He didn't step up and play consistently when his team needed it. For the most part he avoids the dirty areas.

I talked to one of Val Dor's chief scouts about him - he conceded that he's not the bravest player on the ice..noted that when he was drafted he was small (may have weighed 140 pounds)..had a major growth spurt..but may not be used to his size. Perhaps his mentality will change..but you would have to be hoping for something that is not likely to happen. Soft junior players for the most part remain soft players when they turn pro.

So - there are questions about character, competitiveness, and defensive play. Because of those concerns, I'm not sure he's a player the Habs would consider drafting in the first round if he's there. Lots of other options available with less question marks...this is a deep draft.

I really think grit, size and character are going to be key components in Habs' top picks this year, along with skill of course. You look at the Habs' division, and consider that in the future they will likely have to play the Bruins to advance in the playoffs. You look at Montreal's top prospects up front - Collberg, Kristo, Hudon, Bozon, Vail - while they aren't lacking in competitiveness, none would be described as big bruisers. You look at division opponents like Toronto and Ottawa, who will be adding the likes of Ross, Biggs, Noesen and Zibanejad (two years from now he'll be a beast physically), to their already gritty lineups.

Will the Habs win in the playoffs with Patch, Mantha, Gally, Eller/Plekanec/DD and Chucky in the top 6 a year or two from now? I don't see a lot of grit there - the hardest player is 5-8.

McCoshen/Mueller, McCarron, Bailey and Diaby..if the Habs can leave the draft with that group.....and a good goalie prospect...I will have considered it a major success. I really can't see McCarron dropping to 34 though - too many teams looking for that type of player.

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Old
06-15-2013, 10:20 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
I really can't see McCarron dropping to 34 though - too many teams looking for that type of player.
Really? I can't see him going that early -- to many question marks surrounding his offensive game, IMHO.

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Old
06-15-2013, 10:45 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Mueller may go top 15.. dreaming red white and blue technicolor if you think he's available at 55..same with Diaby in the 70's..I don't expect him to be there at 55...if he is you snap him up. In fact..if he's still on the board in the late 40's I could see the Habs surrendering a third rounder to move up to get him.
Me either, and yet if you mention here taking Diaby before or even at 55, people act like it would be the end of the world. Personally, I think getting Diaby is critical to the Habs overall success in this draft, but that's just me.

I find it strange after reading on here for YEARS how badly the Habs need a big, tough, mean, crease-clearing defenceman, everyone seems to go all weak in the knees at the thought of taking Diaby (who fits the bill perfectly) with a 2nd round pick. Instead they dredge up high picks taken 20 years ago who had size but didn't make it.

Same old story - "Everyone wants to go to heaven - nobody wants to die".


Last edited by FisherKing: 06-15-2013 at 10:56 AM.
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06-15-2013, 10:51 AM
  #533
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I personally like Diaby over McCarron.

Diaby has a chance to be a super heavyweight who can also play D like a Carkner/Fraser but better.

McCarron is big, but he's slow, doesn't scrap, and put up limited production. I think his upside is Latendresse. I wouldn't be upset if we took him though.

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Old
06-15-2013, 10:55 AM
  #534
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Really? I can't see him going that early -- to many question marks surrounding his offensive game, IMHO.
Someone will roll the dice...some teams won't be too worried about his offensive upside. Many will have done their homework on the guy...they are not armchair scouts.

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Old
06-15-2013, 11:33 AM
  #535
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Originally Posted by FisherKing View Post
Me either, and yet if you mention here taking Diaby before or even at 55, people act like it would be the end of the world. Personally, I think getting Diaby is critical to the Habs overall success in this draft, but that's just me.

I find it strange after reading on here for YEARS how badly the Habs need a big, tough, mean, crease-clearing defenceman, everyone seems to go all weak in the knees at the thought of taking Diaby (who fits the bill perfectly) with a 2nd round pick. Instead they dredge up high picks taken 20 years ago who had size but didn't make it.

Same old story - "Everyone wants to go to heaven - nobody wants to die".
The problem is that a lot of fans weren't born when the Habs had their Dynasties, most people aren't aware that the Habs won enough SC's in the sixties as well for another Dynasty. They are aware these teams were called the Flying Frenchmen and their players were all talent, which is a fallacy. The Hab teams were always built with talented players with Character, Desire to win, Losing wasn't an option. These teams had grit all through the lineups, " The Rocket " was one of the toughest competitors in the NHL.

In the 60's the Jean Beliveau led Habs had John Ferguson as their policeman so called in those days, now they are Enforcers. The teams from each decade 50's, 60's and 70's all had talented players, but they were groomed to be "Complete Players" before they became a full time player. This meant that Top Draft picks like Guy Lafleur, learned the game at the Pro level for 3 years before they were cut loose and allowed to be creative.

The 2012/2013 team had the first high draft choice forward since 1980 join the team and Galchenyuk is learning the way Hab players have always learned. Defensive hockey first and when he succeeds there, (LW) being a center he learns defence from the wingers position. So when he reverts back to center, his grasp of the wing position helps make his job easier and his wingers job easier, so on and so forth.

Anyways all those teams had balance, which is a point that Marc Bergevin stresses when talking with the media. Teams win SC's not individuals, there are four lines and three defence pairings, and systems each player and their lines need to learn. Sorry starting to babble, you get the idea.

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Old
06-15-2013, 11:50 AM
  #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Mueller may go top 15.. dreaming red white and blue technicolor if you think he's available at 55..same with Diaby in the 70's..I don't expect him to be there at 55...if he is you snap him up. In fact..if he's still on the board in the late 40's I could see the Habs surrendering a third rounder to move up to get him.

Mantha played on the pk quite a bit, and there's no doubt that he could be dangerous...he likes to basket hang at times..he has a knack for getting sprung behind the opponent's defence for breakaways both at even strength and on the PK. He is not averse to throwing hits, and I even saw him drop the gloves a couple of times (against much smaller opponents) and fare well in a scrap. He has good speed and a great shot..there are no doubts that he's an intriguing prospect, and will likely be picked somewhere in the 15-25 range because of his positive traits - size, speed, shot, skill, offensive hockey sense.

There are some question marks however - he took too many nights off, especially when the going got rough and the checking was tight. He does not like to get hit, and no one is going to describe him as gritty. He didn't step up and play consistently when his team needed it. For the most part he avoids the dirty areas.

I talked to one of Val Dor's chief scouts about him - he conceded that he's not the bravest player on the ice..noted that when he was drafted he was small (may have weighed 140 pounds)..had a major growth spurt..but may not be used to his size. Perhaps his mentality will change..but you would have to be hoping for something that is not likely to happen. Soft junior players for the most part remain soft players when they turn pro.

So - there are questions about character, competitiveness, and defensive play. Because of those concerns, I'm not sure he's a player the Habs would consider drafting in the first round if he's there. Lots of other options available with less question marks...this is a deep draft.

I really think grit, size and character are going to be key components in Habs' top picks this year, along with skill of course. You look at the Habs' division, and consider that in the future they will likely have to play the Bruins to advance in the playoffs. You look at Montreal's top prospects up front - Collberg, Kristo, Hudon, Bozon, Vail - while they aren't lacking in competitiveness, none would be described as big bruisers. You look at division opponents like Toronto and Ottawa, who will be adding the likes of Ross, Biggs, Noesen and Zibanejad (two years from now he'll be a beast physically), to their already gritty lineups.

Will the Habs win in the playoffs with Patch, Mantha, Gally, Eller/Plekanec/DD and Chucky in the top 6 a year or two from now? I don't see a lot of grit there - the hardest player is 5-8.

McCoshen/Mueller, McCarron, Bailey and Diaby..if the Habs can leave the draft with that group.....and a good goalie prospect...I will have considered it a major success. I really can't see McCarron dropping to 34 though - too many teams looking for that type of player.
At 25, if both are available, do they take Mueller or McCarron?

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Old
06-15-2013, 11:53 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Teamwork View Post
Leafs' fans are talking about trading up for the 3rd overall pick. I feel like this happens every year!
Well they have that SuperStar Gardiner that is worth more than the 3rd overall in their eyes

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Old
06-15-2013, 12:02 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I personally like Diaby over McCarron.

Diaby has a chance to be a super heavyweight who can also play D like a Carkner/Fraser but better.

McCarron is big, but he's slow, doesn't scrap, and put up limited production. I think his upside is Latendresse. I wouldn't be upset if we took him though.
I would think for his size right now and growing into his body , he has good speed.....he played at the USNDP program which he says didn't allow him to play his physical style(thus he may go to London Knights under Dale Hunter to work on that part). His production also improved last half of the year and looked pretty good at the U18

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06-15-2013, 12:13 PM
  #539
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While I'd love Zykov or Mantha, I'm perfectly content with Kerby Rychel. I think he's going to be an excellent top 6 forward with grit.

I'f we can combine Rychel with a 2 way D and a boom/bust offensive talent like Buchenevich, along with Diaby at 55, that's a very nice first four picks to add our prospect crop. Something like

25 Rychel
34 Hagg/McCoshen
36 Buchnevic
55 Diaby


That's a B+ draft for me, and doesn't require anyone falling.

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Old
06-15-2013, 12:22 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
While I'd love Zykov or Mantha, I'm perfectly content with Kerby Rychel. I think he's going to be an excellent top 6 forward with grit.

I'f we can combine Rychel with a 2 way D and a boom/bust offensive talent like Buchenevich, along with Diaby at 55, that's a very nice first four picks to add our prospect crop. Something like

25 Rychel
34 Hagg/McCoshen
36 Buchnevic
55 Diaby


That's a B+ draft for me, and doesn't require anyone falling.
Weird that you thrash McCarron for being slow, yet you want to pick Rychel who is also slow.

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06-15-2013, 12:26 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Nitehowl View Post
I would think for his size right now and growing into his body , he has good speed.....he played at the USNDP program which he says didn't allow him to play his physical style(thus he may go to London Knights under Dale Hunter to work on that part). His production also improved last half of the year and looked pretty good at the U18
Agreed. Speed is not a problem with this guy. Unless someone unexpected falls, I hope we pick him at 25. Its a roll of the dice but I think its worth it. Most guys at that spot will also have question marks. With the amount of picks we have, its worth a shot.

My draft

1. McCaron / Hartman
2. McCoshen / Rychel/ Dauphin
2. Dauphin / Poirier/ Klimchuk
2. Bailey / Carrier
3. Desrossier/ Diaby/
3. Fasching/ Subban/ Laplante

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Old
06-15-2013, 12:26 PM
  #542
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Weird that you thrash McCarron for being slow, yet you want to pick Rychel who is also slow.
neither are slow.

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Old
06-15-2013, 12:33 PM
  #543
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Rychel has a very short stride for someone over 6'0.I don't know if that can be redone.

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Old
06-15-2013, 12:49 PM
  #544
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Agreed. Speed is not a problem with this guy. Unless someone unexpected falls, I hope we pick him at 25. Its a roll of the dice but I think its worth it. Most guys at that spot will also have question marks. With the amount of picks we have, its worth a shot.

My draft

1. McCaron / Hartman
2. McCoshen / Rychel/ Dauphin
2. Dauphin / Poirier/ Klimchuk
2. Bailey / Carrier
3. Desrossier/ Diaby/
3. Fasching/ Subban/ Laplante
Bolded would be a near perfect draft IMHO..but Bailey and Diaby won't be there at those slot picks.

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06-15-2013, 12:55 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Nitehowl View Post
Bolded would be a near perfect draft IMHO..but Bailey and Diaby won't be there at those slot picks.
Most mocks I've seen have diaby at mid-late 3rd round. He's not worth a 2nd.

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Old
06-15-2013, 12:58 PM
  #546
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Most mocks I've seen have diaby at mid-late 3rd round. He's not worth a 2nd.
Grant who's more plugged in and did the THN draft rankings has him at #50 and doesn't think there's much chance he'll make it to our #55 pick.

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Old
06-15-2013, 01:00 PM
  #547
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Weird that you thrash McCarron for being slow, yet you want to pick Rychel who is also slow.
Rychel is a solid/average skater. McCarron is a below average skater in the Latendresse mold.

It's a big difference. and Rychel has a TON more offensive game to him and is also a willing scraper.

He's a legit top 6 guy, while McCarron is a project.

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06-15-2013, 01:03 PM
  #548
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Anyways all those teams had balance, which is a point that Marc Bergevin stresses when talking with the media. Teams win SC's not individuals, there are four lines and three defence pairings, and systems each player and their lines need to learn. Sorry starting to babble, you get the idea.
It's not babbling, it is an important concept. If all it took was a acquiring a bunch of individuals who put up good numbers in the past, the Rangers would win all of the time... but they don't. I like MB's approach

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Old
06-15-2013, 01:04 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Rychel is a solid/average skater. McCarron is a below average skater in the Latendresse mold.

It's a big difference. and Rychel has a TON more offensive game to him and is also a willing scraper.

He's a legit top 6 guy, while McCarron is a project.
Latendresse was/is a tortoise. McCarron is not even close to being that slow.

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Old
06-15-2013, 01:05 PM
  #550
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Getting to know some of the American Prospects (4 Full Games of Team USA at the U18)

Forwards
7-Compher
15-Hayden
24-McCarron

Ds
5-Vanelli
6-Thompson
16-Santini

1-USA vs Russia (Round Robin Game) - (April 18)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu3P1cTm6KM

2-USA vs Finland (Round Robin Game) - (April 23)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJJmy1BUx9M

3- USA vs Russia (Semi-Finals) - (April 26)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4xg8Bxhvrk

4- USA vs Canada (Finals) - (April 28)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdnTcPUS7uU

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