HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Habs' off-season moves (all trades, proposals & free agent talk here) V

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-15-2013, 11:24 AM
  #551
onemorecup*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,062
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
I heard they need a shutdown D... Why not our very own Gorges for their 2nd and the negociation rights on Ryan Jones?
as much as I am not a fan of Gorges , I need a replacement to take his spot

Jones is fine , the second is fine but I need a capable 4/5 Dman in return and cheaper

Jones is a UFA dont see him breaking the bank in the offseason

onemorecup* is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:26 AM
  #552
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I think Doug Murray has been exposed as too slow, McGrattan has barely an NHL player and has averaged less than 30 games per year for the past 8 years with less than 1 goal and 2 assists per year. I would want someone who has the skill to play more regularly than that. Clowe wants big money and a long term. I wouldn't want to give him either.

I like your idea adding grit, size and skill but not with these three
Well, if it's not these three, or something pretty damn close to it, it's going to either cost more, or it's not going to happen at all. People have to make up their minds.

McGrattan is a guy who would end up playing around 30 games for us, against teams like Boston and such.

Murray has been one of the less brutal Ds for Pittsburgh in these playoffs. He also is a great player on the PK and a pretty physical guy at that.

Clowe's demands are going to be significantly lower than what was expected. I don't trust the media to leak the numbers a player wants. Remember when Subban was supposedly asking for Doughty money? Yeah... it wasn't so true...



I swear the Habs board is as obsessed with speed as the Bruins board is obsessed with toughness.

You don't like Clowe? It's him, Clarkson or Bickell. Clarkson is likely going to TO. And forget about Horton, he's not coming here to play with Subban.

You don't like McGrattan? Forget about getting a HW, there are no other options on the UFA market.

You don't like Murray? Forget about adding a tough D without giving any asset...

HiggsBozon is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:28 AM
  #553
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
I heard they need a shutdown D... Why not our very own Gorges for their 2nd and the negociation rights on Ryan Jones?
I like Gorges but he is also exactly what Edmonton needs. As much as he has been criticized on this board I think he is a leader and has the respect of his teammates. Edmonton remains a possibility but I would want a lot more than a 2nd round pick and the negotiation rights to a UFA like Jones.

I would want something more like a 2nd round pick, David Musil and the NHL rights to Hartikainen who has apparently signed in Europe.

HCH is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:30 AM
  #554
Draft
Registered User
 
Draft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,969
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
"character" is probably the most overrated quality on hfboards.

It's a quality you assign to a player when you like him but you don't actually know what you're talking about.
"Guys who play with passion, clutch players, tenacious players, leaders, and those who are committed to winning."

Those are all either well-documented or easier attributes to gauge than "character". You can glean all this information from watching the players, reading how their teammates feel about them, who's worn a letter, etc.

That term is undoubtedly overrated and overused but I don't think it means the same thing to you as it does to me.

Draft is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:31 AM
  #555
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
as much as I am not a fan of Gorges , I need a replacement to take his spot

Jones is fine , the second is fine but I need a capable 4/5 Dman in return and cheaper

Jones is a UFA dont see him breaking the bank in the offseason
The UFA market is FULL of potential replacements for Gorges. Hainsey, Scuderi, Leopold, Murray, Ference, Roszival, Lydman... name it. Monst of them wouldn't cost more than 3M for no more than 3 years and would be just as effective.

HiggsBozon is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:32 AM
  #556
Chris Cutter
BELIEVE IN DOUGLAS
 
Chris Cutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Beauce
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,067
vCash: 500
And if you trade Gorges to Edmonton for prospects/picks, who do you replace him with on defense? Douglas Murray?

Chris Cutter is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:34 AM
  #557
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
oard is as obsessed with speed as the Bruins board is obsessed with toughness.

You don't like Clowe? It's him, Clarkson or Bickell. Clarkson is likely going to TO. And forget about Horton, he's not coming here to play with Subban.

You don't like McGrattan? Forget about getting a HW, there are no other options on the UFA market.

You don't like Murray? Forget about adding a tough D without giving any asset...
It's not that I don't like Clowe but if his previous demands are any indication, it is more than what I would want to offer. If price and term were reasonable, yes he would be a nice addition but I am not holding my breath.

No, I don't like McGrattan. We fared well against Boston, for example, without him and he wouldn't see the ice in the playoffs.

I think Murray has slowed down to the point of being ineffective. I would sooner take a chance on signing a younger physical defenseman who has some wheels.

All in all, I still like your philosophy but not the specific players you have suggested.

HCH is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:34 AM
  #558
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
And if you trade Gorges to Edmonton for prospects/picks, who do you replace him with on defense? Douglas Murray?
Sure couldn't be any worst than watching Gorges on his ass nearby the crease while a forward makes Price look like a fool... How can a player be overrated around here...

Picking up a 2nd, Ryan Jones, and a replacement from the UFA market without making our team any worst would be a great step in the right direction.

HiggsBozon is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:34 AM
  #559
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
The UFA market is FULL of potential replacements for Gorges. Hainsey, Scuderi, Leopold, Murray, Ference, Roszival, Lydman... name it.
A lot of those guys are either a downgrade or would cost more=waste of time.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:37 AM
  #560
BigHabs
Registered User
 
BigHabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
The UFA market is FULL of potential replacements for Gorges. Hainsey, Scuderi, Leopold, Murray, Ference, Roszival, Lydman... name it.
Leopold - was not that great this year and isn't really what the Habs need.

Ference - Giving the finger to the Montreal crowd wont likely come here.

The other two are not really what the Habs are looking for either.

Defense I think the Habs will go after:

Mark Fistric
Rob Scuderi
Douglas Murray
Ron Hainsey

BigHabs is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:37 AM
  #561
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
And if you trade Gorges to Edmonton for prospects/picks, who do you replace him with on defense? Douglas Murray?
As I said, I do like Gorges and you have pointed out the dilemma. Before MB even thought about trading Gorges he would have to a replacement in mind... and not Doug Murray. Those potential replacements are few and far between so I don't anticipate a trade... I was just pointing out that I would want a lot more than a 2nd round pick.

HCH is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:38 AM
  #562
Chris Cutter
BELIEVE IN DOUGLAS
 
Chris Cutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Beauce
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,067
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
The UFA market is FULL of potential replacements for Gorges. Hainsey, Scuderi, Leopold, Murray, Ference, Roszival, Lydman... name it.
You're either overrating those guys or you underrate Gorges way too much... Gorges is better than all those guys except for Scuderi and maybe Roszival. It's not because some of the guys that you named like Lydman, Hainsey and Leopold are bigger than Gorges means that they're more physical than him. Ference is actually smaller than Gorges and 3/4 of the names you named are considerably older than him (looking at Lydman who's turning 36 in september, Rozsival who's also turning 35 in september, Murray who's 33). Only Leopold, Hainsey and Roszival are better offensively the rest are all players in the same mold as Gorges but either worse or much older.

Chris Cutter is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:38 AM
  #563
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
A lot of those guys are either a downgrade or would cost more=waste of time.
You replace Gorges with any one of them, and the consequences will be none on this team. Plus, they actually would ALL cost less, on a shorter contract.

You realize Gorges is not a superior player to those guys, and that he still gets paid 3.9M for 5 more years, right? Do people here realize how much this contract sucks? It's horrible. Whenever we buy out Kaberle, Gorges will be the worst contract on the Canadiens.

HiggsBozon is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:38 AM
  #564
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peso View Post
Leopold - was not that great this year and isn't really what the Habs need.

Ference - Giving the finger to the Montreal crowd wont likely come here.

The other too are not really what the Habs are looking for either.

Defense I think the Habs will go after:

Mark Fistric
Rob Scuderi
Douglas Murray
Ron Hainsey
Fistric - maybe
Scuderi - also a maybe
Murray - I doubt it
Hainsey - a definite no

HCH is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:42 AM
  #565
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
You're either overrating those guys or you underrate Gorges way too much... Gorges is better than all those guys except for Scuderi and maybe Roszival. It's not because some are guys that you named like Lydman, Hainsey and Leopold are bigger than Gorges means that they're more physical than him. Ference is actually smaller than Gorges and 3/4 of the names you named are considerably older than him (looking at Lydman who's turning 36 in september, Rozsival who's also turning 35 in september, Murray who's 33). Only Leopold, Hainsey and Roszival are better offensively the rest are all players in the same mold as Gorges but either worse or much older.
Lydman is every bit as good as Gorges, plus he has a better first pass.
Leopold is much better at offense than Gorges.
Hainsey is better at getting the puck out of his zone than Markov AND is bigger.
Ference might be smaller, he's 5 times the physical force Gorges is.

No matter how old they are, they would sign for much less, and on a much shorter contract than Gorges.

People here should spend less time talking about how we will pay 1-2M$ per year more than we POTENTIALLY COULD have to a Norris trophy winner, and more time about how we pay a fringe defenseman with no real visible contributions on the ice twice as much as he should make, for twice as long.

HiggsBozon is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:43 AM
  #566
S Bah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: victoria bc
Country: Wales
Posts: 4,468
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft View Post
So, took the time to write up a short list of "character" players that I think we should be interested in. The types like Gallagher and Prust who will do what it takes to win and to lead a team, from the 4th line to the 1st. Guys who play with passion, clutch players, tenacious players, leaders, and those who are committed to winning. Some are just in here because they're UFAs and kind of fit the bill.

Boyd Gordon
Steve Ott
Brendan Morrow
Cal Clutterbuck
Matt Halischuk
Ryan Callahan
Brandon Dubinsky
Paul Bissonette
Antoine Vermette
Scott Glennie
Krys Barch
Patrice Cormier
Andrew Ladd
Teemu Hartikainen
Jared Boll
Boone Jenner
Gabriel Landeskog/Jordan Eberle
Nino Niederreiter
TJ Oshie

Tried to keep most of it in the Western Conference and away from any unrealistic trades or signings (Apart from Landeskog/Eberle). Unfortunately not many that could play in a top-6 role. Any more to add/take away?
The name that jumps out (Cal Clutterbuck) then (Jared Boll) & (Boone Jenner) and my personal favorite (TJ Oshie). I would be really ecstatic with any of these players signing with the Habs. I think that each of the players that I've chosen are fan favorites in their cities and would come with a high price tag. Good list of hard working players, though their teams certainly will be reluctant to part ways with them.

S Bah is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:43 AM
  #567
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
As I said, I do like Gorges and you have pointed out the dilemma. Before MB even thought about trading Gorges he would have to a replacement in mind... and not Doug Murray. Those potential replacements are few and far between so I don't anticipate a trade... I was just pointing out that I would want a lot more than a 2nd round pick.
What does Gorges bring that would need to be replaced exactly? You guys tell me all of those important contributions to the Habs Gorges bring.

FFS, on 2010-2011, we could replace him by a guy like Sopel and be just as effective as a team.

HiggsBozon is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:45 AM
  #568
BigHabs
Registered User
 
BigHabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Fistric - maybe
Scuderi - also a maybe
Murray - I doubt it
Hainsey - a definite no
If at a cheap cost, I think Hainsey could maybe an option to look at. He was a stud down the stretch for Winnipeg when they were making their push.


I don't know why every one is complaining about Murray's speed. We had Hal Gill on the backend and that's probably the slowest you can go. Murray is a bigger shot blocker and can also hit hard, something our backend is lacking without Emelin. Murray also was a big part of Pittsburgh's defense this post season as well.

If we got both Scuderi and Murray I would be excited.

Markov Emelin
Subban Scuderi
Murray Gorges

Diaz / Boullion

BigHabs is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:52 AM
  #569
BigHabs
Registered User
 
BigHabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
What does Gorges bring that would need to be replaced exactly? You guys tell me all of those important contributions to the Habs Gorges bring.

FFS, on 2010-2011, we could replace him by a guy like Sopel and be just as effective as a team.
The guy is a shot blocking machine. He is always up around the top of the league in block shots and reduces the amount of shots that get to the net.

Our problem is that our defense was too soft this year. Gorges needs to be paired with a shutdown dman. Look at the tandem when it was him and Gill, one of the top shutdown pairings in the league. You put him with a Scuderi or Murray he will be a lot more an asset as well.

When you play with offensive guys and less physical guys sometimes it can be harder in your own end to move the puck and get it out.

We need more physicality on the backend and it will be a lot better on the backend. To say Gorges brings nothing is a joke. In the playoffs him and Subban were the two most emotional guys trying to get things going.

Gorges is a leader and you will with them. You don't need to score 40-50pts as a dman to be effective. You block shots, clear the net, get the pucks out and your doing your job.

48 gp / 2 g 7a = 9pts / +4

Those are decent numbers for a top guy this year playing against top talent.

BigHabs is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:53 AM
  #570
Chris Cutter
BELIEVE IN DOUGLAS
 
Chris Cutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Beauce
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,067
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Lydman is every bit as good as Gorges, plus he has a better first pass.
Leopold is much better at offense than Gorges.
Hainsey is better at getting the puck out of his zone than Markov AND is bigger.
Ference might be smaller, he's 5 times the physical force Gorges is.

No matter how old they are, they would sign for much less, and on a much shorter contract than Gorges.

People here should spend less time talking about how we will pay 1-2M$ per year more than we POTENTIALLY COULD have to a Norris trophy winner, and more time about how we pay a fringe defenseman with no real visible contributions on the ice twice as much as he should make, for twice as long.
St. Louis fans can't wait Leopold to get off their team, he's been horrible for past 2 seasons, he just goes by reputation at this point. Like I've pointed out in the past, he's become a Jaro Spacek as in that he's supposed to be really good offensively but in fact he's nothing extraordinary, he'll give you about 25 pts despite a ******** of PP time. That's without adding that Leopold is pretty soft so he's the opposite of what we need right now.

If Lydman is every bit as good as Gorges why was he a healthy scratch on numerous occasions in Anaheim (who doesn't have a Los Angeles Kings-esque defense btw)? Gorges is better and a LOT younger.

Hainsey is better than getting the puck out than Markov? Markov is elite in that department, Hainsey is not physical at all for a guy of his size and makes a lot of questionnable decisions in his own end.

Ference is 5x times stronger than Gorges? I don't even know how you measured that but anyway... Why because he can throw cheapshots on players like Grabovski and Halpern? Ference gets outmuscled just as much as Gorges and is not as good defensively as him. The difference between him and Gorges is that Boston surrounds him with players like McQuaid and Boychuk who can help him in the physical department while we have Bouillon for that...

Chris Cutter is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:54 AM
  #571
Chris Cutter
BELIEVE IN DOUGLAS
 
Chris Cutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Beauce
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,067
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
What does Gorges bring that would need to be replaced exactly? You guys tell me all of those important contributions to the Habs Gorges bring.

FFS, on 2010-2011, we could replace him by a guy like Sopel and be just as effective as a team.
Now that shows that you either irrationnally hate Gorges or that you have no clue what you're talking about. I shat my pants every time Sopel and Spacek were on the ice because I knew one of them would **** up terribly. Sopel was just as slow as Gill ffs.

Chris Cutter is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:55 AM
  #572
Jabba11
Hockey Lobby
 
Jabba11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,381
vCash: 500
What do you guys think of Tim Thomas? Could he be a good backup goalie?

Jabba11 is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:56 AM
  #573
overlords
Global Moderator
Jack Arse
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
What do you guys think of Tim Thomas? Could he be a good backup goalie?
Like....here?

__________________



"overlords is one of my favorite people on this entire site." - Hfboards
overlords is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:56 AM
  #574
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
FFS, on 2010-2011, we could replace him by a guy like Sopel and be just as effective as a team.
Gorges could wear rubber boots instead of skates and still be faster than Sopel

HCH is offline  
Old
06-15-2013, 11:57 AM
  #575
Chris Cutter
BELIEVE IN DOUGLAS
 
Chris Cutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Beauce
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,067
vCash: 500
Well I know him and Carey Price are good buddies but I think I'll pass on him purely for controversy purposes and because Budaj was solid last year as our back-up.

Chris Cutter is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.