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06-15-2013, 09:54 AM
  #176
RJ8812
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I'd love to bring in Clutterbuck for our 3rd line

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06-15-2013, 10:07 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I've been a fan and have watched Flyers teams for 35 years now. I can tell you with 100% certainty that Coburn is one of the most talented defensemen there is. However, he's about as bright as a burnt out light bulb when he's on the ice. So infuriating to watch a defenseman who just oozes talent (he can skate, he can hit, he can play positionally, he's physical, he's also got puck carrying skills, he can shoot), but he has absolutely 0 hockey IQ.

Everyone talks about how he needs to be paired with a puck handling defenseman in order for him to be effective. That's so wrong. Look at how well he played when he and Grossmann were paired together. Look at how well he played when he was partnered with guys like Jason Smith and Derian Hatcher. He's so dumb that it kills me to watch all this talent go to waste. And every year, you can guarantee this is like clock work, he starts off the season horribly, he starts to get better and just when you think he's about to turn the corner and put it all together, he falls back into typical Coburn mode.

I've tried to defend the guy. I've really, really, really tried to defend him. But I can't anymore. People talk about how difficult it would be replace him and how 6'5 defenders who can skate don't grow on trees. You can have all the physical talent in the world, but if you're dumb, it just negates everything. And that's what you get with Coburn. At this point, I'd rather just cut bait and let him be someone else's problem. No matter how hard one tries, you just can't fix stupid.
Spot on.

At this point I'd trade Coburn for a mid first round pick this year or a decent top 6 forward and give his money to Rob Scuderi in free agency. For all of the impressive physical tools Coburn brings to the table I'd rather have a super smart and savvy vet like Scuderi who simply does everything right but isn't flashy.

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06-15-2013, 10:19 AM
  #178
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no Eriksson for us

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06-15-2013, 11:02 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
I'd love to bring in Clutterbuck for our 3rd line
Eh, I wouldn't mind it, but I find Clutterbuck to be pretty overrated. He gets the Scottie Upshall treatment where fans love him because he's a high motor guy, despite being a pretty average overall player. I'd rather just go with a McGinn/Couturier/Gagne third line and see what they can do before bringing in a guy that's likely to get overpaid as an RFA.

My ideal lineup:

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Schenn-Simmonds
Gagne-Couturier-McGinn
Rinaldo-Laughton-Talbot

Timonen-Schenn
Streit-Coburn
Gus-Grossmann

I'd like to see Laughton start on the fourth line and given a smaller role. He's not going to be a guy like Couturier who can step in right away and play the toughest checking minutes, but let him go be energetic and make some plays while playing with two other energy guys.

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06-15-2013, 11:51 AM
  #180
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I would love to get Tyler Myers. I'd move Coburn plus the 11th fo him without hesitation.

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06-15-2013, 11:54 AM
  #181
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I would love to get Tyler Myers. I'd move Coburn plus the 11th fo him without hesitation.
That's a bit risky, given Myers' struggles this season.

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06-15-2013, 12:00 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by King Forsberg View Post
I would love to get Tyler Myers. I'd move Coburn plus the 11th fo him without hesitation.
I wouldn't. He seems like a right handed coburn, I'd rather go a different direction

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06-15-2013, 12:03 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Eh, I wouldn't mind it, but I find Clutterbuck to be pretty overrated. He gets the Scottie Upshall treatment where fans love him because he's a high motor guy, despite being a pretty average overall player. I'd rather just go with a McGinn/Couturier/Gagne third line and see what they can do before bringing in a guy that's likely to get overpaid as an RFA.

My ideal lineup:

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Schenn-Simmonds
Gagne-Couturier-McGinn
Rinaldo-Laughton-Talbot

Timonen-Schenn
Streit-Coburn
Gus-Grossmann

I'd like to see Laughton start on the fourth line and given a smaller role. He's not going to be a guy like Couturier who can step in right away and play the toughest checking minutes, but let him go be energetic and make some plays while playing with two other energy guys.
I disagree about Clutterbuck. He's always at the top of the league in hits and is a real good PKer. Perfect for the 3rd line. McGinn...meh. I think he needs another year in ADK before we give him a regular spot.

If not Cluttebuck, then Larose would be another guy I'd like to see brought in. He would be easier to get since he's a UFA as opposed to an RFA

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06-15-2013, 12:12 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
If we get Streit signed then I would do it. We could roll with Mason and Hiller this year and then make our decision next offseason. Not a bad deal at all
Two left handed goalies? Has that ever been done before?

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06-15-2013, 12:30 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
I disagree about Clutterbuck. He's always at the top of the league in hits and is a real good PKer. Perfect for the 3rd line. McGinn...meh. I think he needs another year in ADK before we give him a regular spot.

If not Cluttebuck, then Larose would be another guy I'd like to see brought in. He would be easier to get since he's a UFA as opposed to an RFA
I was a proponent of bring in LaRose a couple of years ago. I like what he brings.

Others who I would like to see on the 4th
Nystrom
Hendricks
Gomez


Last edited by dingbathero: 06-15-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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06-15-2013, 12:55 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
I disagree about Clutterbuck. He's always at the top of the league in hits and is a real good PKer. Perfect for the 3rd line. McGinn...meh. I think he needs another year in ADK before we give him a regular spot.

If not Cluttebuck, then Larose would be another guy I'd like to see brought in. He would be easier to get since he's a UFA as opposed to an RFA
Like I said, I wouldn't mind Clutterbuck for that role, but I wouldn't want the team to move an asset to get him. I would much rather them sign a guy like Larose like you said. He's familiar with Lavy already, and if I recall, Lavy utilized him really well during Carolina's run in 2006.

I still think McGinn is ready though. It's not just from his hot streak last year, it's because of his size. He already has an NHL frame. His skill level is what it is, he's a third liner at best, but I think he's also ready to contribute at that level.

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06-15-2013, 02:54 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I've been a fan and have watched Flyers teams for 35 years now. I can tell you with 100% certainty that Coburn is one of the most talented defensemen there is. However, he's about as bright as a burnt out light bulb when he's on the ice. So infuriating to watch a defenseman who just oozes talent (he can skate, he can hit, he can play positionally, he's physical, he's also got puck carrying skills, he can shoot), but he has absolutely 0 hockey IQ.

Everyone talks about how he needs to be paired with a puck handling defenseman in order for him to be effective. That's so wrong. Look at how well he played when he and Grossmann were paired together. Look at how well he played when he was partnered with guys like Jason Smith and Derian Hatcher. He's so dumb that it kills me to watch all this talent go to waste. And every year, you can guarantee this is like clock work, he starts off the season horribly, he starts to get better and just when you think he's about to turn the corner and put it all together, he falls back into typical Coburn mode.

I've tried to defend the guy. I've really, really, really tried to defend him. But I can't anymore. People talk about how difficult it would be replace him and how 6'5 defenders who can skate don't grow on trees. You can have all the physical talent in the world, but if you're dumb, it just negates everything. And that's what you get with Coburn. At this point, I'd rather just cut bait and let him be someone else's problem. No matter how hard one tries, you just can't fix stupid.
I agree with you. Teams would be interested in him just because of all the tools he has. It looks like they are going to throw some serious cash at Streit, so someone on the backend could be moved and Coburn could get a decent return(picks I hope).

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06-15-2013, 04:37 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
I agree with you. Teams would be interested in him just because of all the tools he has. It looks like they are going to throw some serious cash at Streit, so someone on the backend could be moved and Coburn could get a decent return(picks I hope).
Going into the season with a glass Meszaros and a concussed Grossmann in our top 6would be a disastrous lapse in judgment. Coburn should not be moved.

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06-15-2013, 05:22 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Going into the season with a glass Meszaros and a concussed Grossmann in our top 6would be a disastrous lapse in judgment. Coburn should not be moved.
This.

if Mez didn't have the physical integrity of a house of cards and Grossmann didn't have jello-o floating around in his head i might be OK with moving coburn for a nice return of picks and prospects, but our defense is worse than it was last year without him, even with streit.

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06-15-2013, 05:45 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Going into the season with a glass Meszaros and a concussed Grossmann in our top 6would be a disastrous lapse in judgment. Coburn should not be moved.
Is Grossmann still bunged up from the concussion?

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06-15-2013, 06:33 PM
  #191
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Is Grossmann still bunged up from the concussion?
i don't think anything has really been released one way or another, merely speculative at this point, but needless to say the fact that he missed the last 18 games of the season isn't a good sign.

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06-15-2013, 06:52 PM
  #192
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i don't think anything has really been released one way or another, merely speculative at this point, but needless to say the fact that he missed the last 18 games of the season isn't a good sign.
I heard he was fine by the end of the season, but once they were eliminated, the Flyers thought it would be best to just keep him out for the rest of the season since nothing mattered

smart move

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06-15-2013, 09:29 PM
  #193
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I'd love to bring in Clutterbuck for our 3rd line
Every team would but I doubt Minnesota lets him go

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06-16-2013, 02:04 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
I heard he was fine by the end of the season, but once they were eliminated, the Flyers thought it would be best to just keep him out for the rest of the season since nothing mattered

smart move
Really? I thought I remembered seeing reports at the end of the season that his vestibular system still wasn't too close to being back to normal. I don't know, seeing that his concussion had a lasting effect on an important sense really worries me, especially when you look at how prone he is to concussions.

I really like the game Grossmann brings, its simple and he always makes the right decision. But with the way things have been going I can't see his career lasting too much longer unfortunately. Bad gut feeling. I hope I'm wrong.

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06-16-2013, 06:43 AM
  #195
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Really? I thought I remembered seeing reports at the end of the season that his vestibular system still wasn't too close to being back to normal. I don't know, seeing that his concussion had a lasting effect on an important sense really worries me, especially when you look at how prone he is to concussions.

I really like the game Grossmann brings, its simple and he always makes the right decision. But with the way things have been going I can't see his career lasting too much longer unfortunately. Bad gut feeling. I hope I'm wrong.
Wasn't it James Neal who elbowed him and gave him a bad concussion? Same series he went after Couturier's head if I recall correctly. I hope that team of superstars stops getting all the undeserved respect from the league.

Hopefully all the rest Grossman has had will get him ahead of his concussion problems. That being said it would be foolish to deal Coburn when puck moving defense is exactly what they need most (beyond goaltending as usual..)

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06-16-2013, 07:25 AM
  #196
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Going into the season with a glass Meszaros and a concussed Grossmann in our top 6would be a disastrous lapse in judgment. Coburn should not be moved.
I wouldn't exactly call Meszaros glass. He's been a rather sturdy defenseman for the Flyers. The problem was that he was rushed back too soon from his back surgery. The Achilles injury was a freak injury and the shoulder could have happened to anyone. The fact that he's 100% leaves me feeling significantly comfortable that he's going to be ok.

Grossmann is my concern. The fact he's still experiencing issues with the vestibular system from his concussion is significant. Worst case scenario is that he ends up with vertigo and he has to call it a career (a la Jeff Hackett). I'm not holding out hope that he's going to be ready.

As for Coburn, I think everyone knows where I stand on the guy. I don't think he's as important as it's being made out to be. Schenn does Coburn's job very well and is paid a million bucks less a year to do so. While I agree that the Flyers would need a defenseman to help replace Coburn's minutes, I think signing a guy like a Rob Scuderi fills Coburn's spot adequately well and at probably $1 million less.

As for Hartnell, they should have traded him after the 2010-2011 season. They waited too long on that. Too bad too because they probably could have received a great package for him, but after trading Richards and Carter, it's understandable why they kept him around. Now that his NMC is going to kick in (I really hate those clauses), he's pretty much going to remain in Philadelphia for the rest of his days.

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06-16-2013, 07:46 AM
  #197
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With Streit looking like he's here for good, and the Flyers needing to free up some money, seems the writing is on the wall for Meszaros to get traded and/or waived. Probably waived.

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06-16-2013, 07:59 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I wouldn't exactly call Meszaros glass. He's been a rather sturdy defenseman for the Flyers. The problem was that he was rushed back too soon from his back surgery. The Achilles injury was a freak injury and the shoulder could have happened to anyone. The fact that he's 100% leaves me feeling significantly comfortable that he's going to be ok.

Grossmann is my concern. The fact he's still experiencing issues with the vestibular system from his concussion is significant. Worst case scenario is that he ends up with vertigo and he has to call it a career (a la Jeff Hackett). I'm not holding out hope that he's going to be ready.

As for Coburn, I think everyone knows where I stand on the guy. I don't think he's as important as it's being made out to be. Schenn does Coburn's job very well and is paid a million bucks less a year to do so. While I agree that the Flyers would need a defenseman to help replace Coburn's minutes, I think signing a guy like a Rob Scuderi fills Coburn's spot adequately well and at probably $1 million less.

As for Hartnell, they should have traded him after the 2010-2011 season. They waited too long on that. Too bad too because they probably could have received a great package for him, but after trading Richards and Carter, it's understandable why they kept him around. Now that his NMC is going to kick in (I really hate those clauses), he's pretty much going to remain in Philadelphia for the rest of his days.
I agree with you about Grossman. Even if he is clear to play this season, one more hit and it could be all over for his career. With the way he plays, that might not take long. That being said, I think you could replace him inhouse as soon as next season. Coburn is a different story. I am all for replacing Coburn with a younger NHL defenseman with 2nd pair promise, like Erixon or Petry, but Scuderi isn't the solution. He is 34 and IMO the Flyers earliest time to really compete for a cup is in two years. Having 36 year old Scuderi and 38 year old Streit on the same defense wouldn't be a good idea.

I have faith that Hartnell will return to form this year. He admitted he was out of shape to start the year because of the lockout. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that one as many guys weren't in the greatest shape coming out of the stoppage.

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06-16-2013, 08:20 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I wouldn't exactly call Meszaros glass. He's been a rather sturdy defenseman for the Flyers. The problem was that he was rushed back too soon from his back surgery. The Achilles injury was a freak injury and the shoulder could have happened to anyone. The fact that he's 100% leaves me feeling significantly comfortable that he's going to be ok.

Grossmann is my concern. The fact he's still experiencing issues with the vestibular system from his concussion is significant. Worst case scenario is that he ends up with vertigo and he has to call it a career (a la Jeff Hackett). I'm not holding out hope that he's going to be ready.

As for Coburn, I think everyone knows where I stand on the guy. I don't think he's as important as it's being made out to be. Schenn does Coburn's job very well and is paid a million bucks less a year to do so. While I agree that the Flyers would need a defenseman to help replace Coburn's minutes, I think signing a guy like a Rob Scuderi fills Coburn's spot adequately well and at probably $1 million less.

As for Hartnell, they should have traded him after the 2010-2011 season. They waited too long on that. Too bad too because they probably could have received a great package for him, but after trading Richards and Carter, it's understandable why they kept him around. Now that his NMC is going to kick in (I really hate those clauses), he's pretty much going to remain in Philadelphia for the rest of his days.
I 100% agree with this. I would have loved for Holmgren to trade Hartnell too while he was trading Richie and Carter away. We could have got a great package then.

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06-16-2013, 08:31 AM
  #200
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With Streit looking like he's here for good, and the Flyers needing to free up some money, seems the writing is on the wall for Meszaros to get traded and/or waived. Probably waived.
Waive mez? Hell no. Edm could give us something. I'd hold on to him myself. People forget how awesome he was a few years ago

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