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Rangers name Alain Vigneault head coach - Part II

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06-15-2013, 05:37 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
Unfair comparison. Penguins have had better teams (though of course the Canucks have had lots of great teams) and honestly a lot of results in the playoffs come down to luck. Even the biggest favorites this postseason where CHI/MIN and PIT/NYI and they were only given like 80% to each win those series. When it gets last you really don't have that large of an edge. Bylsma's results haven't looked so good the last couple of years when his goalies didn't make saves...how did AV's teams look when his goalies didn't make saves? Can't blame the coach for that.
Ask any Canuck fan (knowledgeable) and they'll tell you that AV gets outcoached, moreso in the playoffs. I've seen it 2 years in a row with Chicago and nearly a 3rd time in 2011. I saw it against LA, and against SJS.

In 2011 Sedin's were Art/Hart/Ted Lindsay award winners, Kesler scored 41 goals, Ehrhoff had 50 points, Luo+Schneider won the Jennings, and the team won the presidents trophy... while you may be right PITS has the better team, we were playing absolutely incredible that year so hard to mess that up coaching wise, you just roll the lines that have been working, he needed to adapt the last 2 years. He didnt.


Last edited by Skead: 06-15-2013 at 05:43 PM.
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06-15-2013, 05:38 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
After reading this Im thinking this is a mistake. Has safe pick written all over it. Would rather they chose Johnston or Stevens.

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06-15-2013, 05:43 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
How does that explain Bylsma taking a roster without Crosby/Malkin/Staal for half the year in 10-11 to 100+ pts?
They had ~64% winning percentage with at least one of Crosby/Malkin in the lineup that year (up til feb 4th their first 53 games).

They had a 51% winning percentage with neither of them in the lineup (rest of the season - 29 games).

Obv again breaking sample sizes down to even smaller ones.

So seems to me in general he didn't take those teams to 100+ points. Crosby/malkin got them a huge points edge early and then when they were out the rest of the guys played basically .500 hockey to earn the remaining points.

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06-15-2013, 05:43 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Ask any Canuck fan (knowledgeable) and they'll tell you that AV gets outcoached, moreso in the playoffs. I've seen it 2 years in a row with Chicago and nearly a 3rd time in 2011. I saw it against LA, and against SJS.

In 2011 Sedin's were Art/Hart/Ted Lindsay award winners, Kesler scored 40 goals, Edler had 49 points, Luo+Schneider won the Jennings, and the team won the presidents trophy... while you may be right PITS has the better team, we were playing absolutely incredible that year so hard to mess that up coaching wise, you just roll the lines that have been working, he needed to adapt the last 2 years. He didnt.

What did he do (or not do) differently in the playoffs than in the regular season?

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06-15-2013, 05:47 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
AV is infinitely better than Bylsma.
I don't disagree or agree, my point was if he was fired he surely would have been at the top of the list to come here. Remember he went he finished 1st place without Crosby or Malkin and won a cup recently not a decade ago.

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06-15-2013, 05:49 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
How does that explain Bylsma taking a roster without Crosby/Malkin/Staal for half the year in 10-11 to 100+ pts?
THIS. That was remarkable.

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06-15-2013, 05:50 PM
  #82
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He didn't do that. I just showed he basically had a .500 team with neither of them in the lineup and had a great team with at least one of them in the lineup.


Last edited by SA16: 06-15-2013 at 05:55 PM.
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06-15-2013, 05:51 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
What did he do (or not do) differently in the playoffs than in the regular season?
Honestly great question. I wish I knew the reasons behind the choices he made including leaving the Sedins out for a "penalty kill like" last shift in game 4 versus the Sharks when they haven't ever killed a full penalty in who knows how many years only to allow the SJS to tie it up.

Or putting Dale Weise on the second line despite having scored 3 goals this season and leaving Kassian / Higgins / Other better options on the 4th line.

Or putting in Schneider when obviously he absolutely crapped the bed in the 3rd game and knowing he wasn't 100%. We ended up holding onto Luongo who played strong in playoff appearances to sit him for a 80% ready goaltender?

Or maybe putting Aaron Rome on the powerplay before even allowing Ballard to have a full minute on the PP.

He definitely has his scapegoats and favorites, just hope that he doesn't make a guy like Richards his poster child and a guy like Nash his red-headed stepchild.

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06-15-2013, 05:52 PM
  #84
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Richards probably won't even be here next year.

Any sane coach would not make Brad Richards his poster child. Even his buddy Torts had enough of his pathetic play.

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06-15-2013, 05:54 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Newell Brown seems to disagree.
Kesler is a righty. Put him on the point

problem solved. Or use Bieksa

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06-15-2013, 05:57 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Ask any Canuck fan (knowledgeable) and they'll tell you that AV gets outcoached, moreso in the playoffs. I've seen it 2 years in a row with Chicago and nearly a 3rd time in 2011. I saw it against LA, and against SJS.

In 2011 Sedin's were Art/Hart/Ted Lindsay award winners, Kesler scored 41 goals, Ehrhoff had 50 points, Luo+Schneider won the Jennings, and the team won the presidents trophy... while you may be right PITS has the better team, we were playing absolutely incredible that year so hard to mess that up coaching wise, you just roll the lines that have been working, he needed to adapt the last 2 years. He didnt.
Teams that won the cup and Lu stunk it up. The SJ series was a disaster, and he was also 1 win away from winning a cup. Most knowledgeable fans ive come across have pretty much only good things to say about him.

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06-15-2013, 05:57 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Richards probably won't even be here next year.

Any sane coach would not make Brad Richards his poster child. Even his buddy Torts had enough of his pathetic play.
This coach is the guy who didn't play the best goaltender when the game mattered.
This coach is the guy who gave too much ice time to a player who specifically was advised to not overplay him because the diminishing returns aren't worth the risk.
This coach opted to put a struggling Edler/Alberts ahead of a blossoming Garrison who when Garrison actually made it onto the ice scored more times than not.

And that's coming from an Edler fan

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06-15-2013, 05:58 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
He didn't do that. I just showed he basically had a .500 team with neither of them in the lineup and had a great team with at least one of them in the lineup.
Additional information on the 10-11 Penguins without Crosby/Malkin after feb 4th.

29 games.
15-10-4.
FIVE of those 15 wins were in shootouts.
They scored 68 non-shootout goals in 29 games (2.34 goals/game). 73 goals in 29 games if you include the 5 shootout "goals" (2.51 goals/game) which would have ranked 26th in the league for the whole year.

So saying he led them to a 100 point season without those guys is a fallacy.

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06-15-2013, 05:58 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
They had ~64% winning percentage with at least one of Crosby/Malkin in the lineup that year (up til feb 4th their first 53 games).

They had a 51% winning percentage with neither of them in the lineup (rest of the season - 29 games).

Obv again breaking sample sizes down to even smaller ones.

So seems to me in general he didn't take those teams to 100+ points. Crosby/malkin got them a huge points edge early and then when they were out the rest of the guys played basically .500 hockey to earn the remaining points.
Wow, interesting. Did not know this.

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06-15-2013, 05:59 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ncmike View Post
After reading this Im thinking this is a mistake. Has safe pick written all over it. Would rather they chose Johnston or Stevens.
Those Pros far outweight the Cons. Treatment of the Media means nothing as far as coaching goes. Every coach has favorites and questionable decisions when it comes to young players, you can find every team with similar complaints. Every team plays conservative with a lead. Honestly most of those complaints could be pegged on any team in the league.

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06-15-2013, 05:59 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
I like a 4th line of Clowe-Boyle-Dorsett. Already have all 3 (if choose to keep Clowe).
I think they should let Clowe walk. While I like his game, the team has already spent too much on him.

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06-15-2013, 06:00 PM
  #92
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Personally I think AV under-achieved with the Nucks, but, he's the coach now, so let's hope he can help lift the Rangers in 13-14

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06-15-2013, 06:00 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
Kesler is a righty. Put him on the point

problem solved. Or use Bieksa
Kesler who is arguably one of our best screeners, is playing the point? Bad decision. Kesler needs to be on the perimeter or infront of the goalie.
Bieksa isn't powerplay material, they tried it, didn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Blob View Post
Teams that won the cup and Lu stunk it up. The SJ series was a disaster, and he was also 1 win away from winning a cup. Most knowledgeable fans ive come across have pretty much only good things to say about him.
Lu stunk it up? He worked off 8 goals... for the series. The Canucks in all their prowess mustered up 1.12 goals a game including being shutout for the final game. He needed 2 shutouts to make that possible which happened. He was a star in 3 of the games...

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06-15-2013, 06:03 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Honestly great question. I wish I knew the reasons behind the choices he made including leaving the Sedins out for a "penalty kill like" last shift in game 4 versus the Sharks when they haven't ever killed a full penalty in who knows how many years only to allow the SJS to tie it up.

Or putting Dale Weise on the second line despite having scored 3 goals this season and leaving Kassian / Higgins / Other better options on the 4th line.

Or putting in Schneider when obviously he absolutely crapped the bed in the 3rd game and knowing he wasn't 100%. We ended up holding onto Luongo who played strong in playoff appearances to sit him for a 80% ready goaltender?

Or maybe putting Aaron Rome on the powerplay before even allowing Ballard to have a full minute on the PP.

He definitely has his scapegoats and favorites, just hope that he doesn't make a guy like Richards his poster child and a guy like Nash his red-headed stepchild.
A lot of revisionist history here

- The Sedins usually kill the last 15-30 second of the PP
-Weise never got an extended look on the second line.
- He put Schneider because he has been the better for 3 years now. CS also said that he was good to play
- Ballard is really bad, he only looked good for a short amount of time with Tanev. Rome played a mistake free game and was much better than KB4 when he was here

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06-15-2013, 06:04 PM
  #95
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(FROM THE EARLIER THREAD BY GAGLINE) Torts will get the Vancouver job and they will meet the Rangers in the SCF for a 20 year reunion.

That would be hilarious!

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06-15-2013, 06:04 PM
  #96
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I think they should let Clowe walk. While I like his game, the team has already spent too much on him.
Ugh.

I doubt Clowe is going anywhere but NY.

Quote:
And he knows exactly what to expect from Alain Vigneault should the Canucks ever revert to a game that they became noted for.

“Vigneaut was my coach in junior (QMJHL) and I know how he likes a physical and competitive team and it’s similar to us,” said Clowe. “We kind of clash a bit and get after each other. They’re fun games and the kind I like to be involved in — high tempo and with a lot of energy. It’s what I like.”

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Ry...#ixzz2WKD70XIr


"I have announced the signing of Ryane Clowe to a 7 yr deal worth $35 million"

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06-15-2013, 06:04 PM
  #97
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As a Vancouverite, let's stop the Luo cup final talk. I thought it annoyed the beejesus out of me 2 years ago already.

The biggest learning curve in terms of winning a Stanley cup happened in Vancouver so I'm really interested to see how he adjusts and adapts to a whole new situation. Coaches can use a change of scenery as well and with the tools he has to work with here, maybe he can learn a bit just from adapting and thinking.

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06-15-2013, 06:06 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Kesler who is arguably one of our best screeners, is playing the point? Bad decision. Kesler needs to be on the perimeter or infront of the goalie.
Bieksa isn't powerplay material, they tried it, didn't work.
Bieksa has looked good on the PP at times..
Burrows is good in front of the net and Kesler brings a great shot that can be utilized on the point.

Anyways... AV did a very good job in Van and just outstayed his welcome. Every coach has a shelf life, no matter how good they are

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06-15-2013, 06:08 PM
  #99
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A lot of revisionist history here

- The Sedins usually kill the last 15-30 second of the PP
-Weise never got an extended look on the second line.
- He put Schneider because he has been the better for 3 years now. CS also said that he was good to play
- Ballard is really bad, he only looked good for a short amount of time with Tanev. Rome played a mistake free game and was much better than KB4 when he was here
Hence why I said "full penalty". I understand they kill the last portion.
That being said they had 6-5, Sedin made a bad play to pass to burrows and it ended up in our net.

Why is Weise even getting a look on the 2nd line or with the Sedins in the first place? Build the confidence of Kassian or Higgins.

That's apart of being a coach, alright CS said he was good to go and had a terrible 3rd period which everyone (including Mr. AV himself) could see that CS looked awkward especially with lateral pad movement, that should have been the red flag noting that he wasn't 100%. What's the excuse for game 4? Management even wanted Luongo to play.

Again this has to do with confidence of working WITH a player. Ballard is NOT a "dump the puck in" type of player, he likes to free-wheel and make opportunities, which is exactly why we got him. KB4 was shoe-horned into playing a game he wasn't suited to play or face the consequence of being sat.

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06-15-2013, 06:08 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skead;67525261[B
]Kesler who is arguably one of our best screeners, is playing the point?[/B]
I thought he looked good working the point on the PP.


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