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Habs' off-season moves (all trades, proposals & free agent talk here) V

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Old
06-15-2013, 04:56 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by Chfan View Post
We don't play the same style as the Bruins does, and probably never will.

Give Bergevin a few years to set up what he wants...or cheer for the Bruins.
I am cheering for my beloved Habs and I was in Montreal 20 years ago in a cup run

we havent been there since

just tyring to be realistic where this team is and where it needs to be

if you want to continue to watch a middle of the pack team then do nothing MB

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06-15-2013, 04:58 PM
  #602
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I am cheering for my beloved Habs and I was in Montreal 20 years ago in a cup run

we havent been there since

just tyring to be realistic where this team is and where it needs to be

if you want to continue to watch a middle of the pack team then do nothing MB
all will come in time, young padawan
have some patience~

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06-15-2013, 05:00 PM
  #603
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If you knew anything at all about hockey you'd understand that our entire defensive scheme was whack from game 1 and we were grossly exposed and exploited for the 12 or so games leading into the playoffs. Pinning it all on Gorges is classic blame-game behaviour when in reality the blame falls majorly on that illiterate hick behind the bench who refused to adjust a thing, the arrogant GM who thought Drewiskie and Bouillon would make a good third pairing for a cup run and yes, the individual players themselves.

Gorges is better than Ference, he's better than Odyua (who was brutal in ATL/WPG). The Rags had the most balanced d-corps in the league under Torts so who knows where he'd fit in -- point is Gorges is good.
who is blaming Gorges for our problems ? our problem is our lack of team identity and makeup and stated in a previous post

we disgaree on the value of Josh thats fair

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06-15-2013, 05:04 PM
  #604
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all will come in time, young padawan
have some patience~
I have a ton of patience my friend its been 20 years

all I ask is stop the patchwork and bandaids and start fixing to get this great team back in contention

I have faith in MB , he let go of Ryder , smart move now continue

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06-15-2013, 05:05 PM
  #605
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Are people feeling more open to continue the rebuild? We've got five options IMO...

1) Sign overpriced, old, over-hyped Free Agents and try and compete in the middle group
2) Do nothing impactful, no big trades or signings, and battle for 8th seed
3) Continue the rebuild, move aging assets and still potentially battle for 8th
4) Blow up the rest of the team, pull an Edmonton and hope for McDavid in 2015
5) Trade DD, Moen + 3rd to Pittsburgh for Malkin, win a Stanley Cup

I choose option #3. But also maybe #5.

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06-15-2013, 05:07 PM
  #606
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if you keep Dias he and Markov both cant play on your top 4 as they are defensive liabilities .
Weird... is this the general perception of Markov?

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06-15-2013, 05:10 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Chfan View Post
We don't play the same style as the Bruins does, and probably never will.

Give Bergevin a few years to set up what he wants...or cheer for the Bruins.
agreed , but our style and makeup cant win and never will

so start putting one on the ice that can and it starts with our porous D

I dont think too many of us can debate this , we arent close to competing right now and significant changes are needed not minor tweaks my friend like the Bruins Hawks or Kings

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06-15-2013, 05:15 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
agreed , but our style and makeup cant win and never will

so start putting one on the ice that can and it starts with our porous D

I dont think too many of us can debate this , we arent close to competing right now and significant changes are needed not minor tweaks my friend like the Bruins Hawks or Kings
I can agree with this. I'm about done with how this team has been managed over the past decade. If you don't take risks you aren't likely to get big rewards. I think we should move away from the Markov-Plekanec safety net some time soon and start building a team that's capable of being a powerhouse. We have the assets to get there and we've got an excellent base to work from. Just got to look ahead. I'd like to see changes.

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06-15-2013, 05:24 PM
  #609
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I can agree with this. I'm about done with how this team has been managed over the past decade. If you don't take risks you aren't likely to get big rewards. I think we should move away from the Markov-Plekanec safety net some time soon and start building a team that's capable of being a powerhouse. We have the assets to get there and we've got an excellent base to work from. Just got to look ahead. I'd like to see changes.
Well it depends, we've taken some risks but none of them paid off for us. We drafted Kostitsyn instead of name it because he slipped, we drafted Price 5th overall when we had a lot of depth in net (that one paid off), we decided to keep Souray and make a run for the playoffs instead of trading him away for assets, we traded McDonagh for Gomez, we gave huge contracts to Gionta and Cammalleri who were the top UFAs of that off-season, we kept Price and traded Halak (who was the hottest thing that summer) for a prospect, we re-signed Markov instead of Wizniewski, etc. It's really all about perspective, some of these moves obviously don't carry the same magnitude but it all adds up in the end and explains our current status: a good but not great team.

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06-15-2013, 05:26 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
I can agree with this. I'm about done with how this team has been managed over the past decade. If you don't take risks you aren't likely to get big rewards. I think we should move away from the Markov-Plekanec safety net some time soon and start building a team that's capable of being a powerhouse. We have the assets to get there and we've got an excellent base to work from. Just got to look ahead. I'd like to see changes.
great post my friend and its not about risk , its about knowing where you are now and far r u away from competing and taking the steps to get there

now I am not trading Markov for a bag of chips or dumping Pleks until Galchy and Eller are a legit 1-2

my point on Dias is this , he is a small soft finesse defensivley challenged player not built for the playoffs

I have a 6`3" 205 pound D who maybe 220 when its done named Nathan who might be our futrure Markov

put him in there and not Dias who will never be the answer , and I would rather learn with him than waste 4 years keepin Dias and watch the same ineffective playoff player

same goes with Ryder ..why pay him at the end of his career when I have Kristo who may replace him and we did theright thing letting him go


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06-15-2013, 05:31 PM
  #611
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Ference is brought up in this thread? What a joke, we already have that type of D-Man his name is Francis Boullion and he got a ton more class to boot. You won't see Frankie flipping the bird off to the crowd and then coming up with the most ******** excuse.

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06-15-2013, 05:31 PM
  #612
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Ference is brought up in this thread? What a joke, we already have that type of D-Man his name is Francis Boullion and he got a ton more class to boot.
Cube would probably kick his ass, too.

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06-15-2013, 05:44 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
Well it depends, we've taken some risks but none of them paid off for us. We drafted Kostitsyn instead of name it because he slipped, we drafted Price 5th overall when we had a lot of depth in net (that one paid off), we decided to keep Souray and make a run for the playoffs instead of trading him away for assets, we traded McDonagh for Gomez, we gave huge contracts to Gionta and Cammalleri who were the top UFAs of that off-season, we kept Price and traded Halak (who was the hottest thing that summer) for a prospect, we re-signed Markov instead of Wizniewski, etc. It's really all about perspective, some of these moves obviously don't carry the same magnitude but it all adds up in the end and explains our current status: a good but not great team.
I wrote it quite poorly but, you bring up some good points. I'm thinking more of our current lineup and the risks we need to take to bring our team to the next level (i.e. Plekanec, Markov, ~Price, Bourque etc.). Looking at potential short term risk/loss and making it into a long-term gain.

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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
great post my friend and its not about risk , its about knowing where you are now and far r u away from competing and taking the steps to get there

now I am not trading Markov for a bag of chips or dumping Pleks until Galchy and Eller are a legit 1-2

my point on Dias is this , he is a small soft finesse defensivley challenged player not built for the playoffs

I have a 6`3" 205 pound D who maybe 220 when its done named Nathan who might be our futrure Markov

put him in there and not Dias who will never be the answer , and I would rather learn with him than waste 4 years keepin Dias and watch the same ineffective playoff player

same goes with Ryder ..why pay him at the end of his career when I have Krist who may replace him and we did theright thing letting him go
That's what a lot of people miss out on. I'm happy with how well our team did this year and I'd hate to take away from their success but, I can't see us repeating or sustaining that type of production over an 82 game season, we hardly did over the 48.

Chicago, LA, Boston and Pittsburgh are all built around a group of elite core players that will give them a cup window for x amount of years. We have the chance to replicate that to a certain extent and we NEED to define our core and build around it. Add the players that give this group of core players the best chance at succeeding.

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-XXXXX
XXXXXXX-Eller?-Gallagher

XXXX-Subban
Tinordi-Beaulieu

Price

This is our core IMO. Build around this and give these players a chance to compete, our old core of Plekanec, Markov, ~Bourque, Gionta, Gomez, Cammy, etc. are passed their chance at competing. If we don't take this chance to build around this group of players, our moveable assets will have lost their value and we'll have missed our chance at building a powerhouse team.

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06-15-2013, 05:46 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
Well it depends, we've taken some risks but none of them paid off for us. We drafted Kostitsyn instead of name it because he slipped, we drafted Price 5th overall when we had a lot of depth in net (that one paid off), we decided to keep Souray and make a run for the playoffs instead of trading him away for assets, we traded McDonagh for Gomez, we gave huge contracts to Gionta and Cammalleri who were the top UFAs of that off-season, we kept Price and traded Halak (who was the hottest thing that summer) for a prospect, we re-signed Markov instead of Wizniewski, etc. It's really all about perspective, some of these moves obviously don't carry the same magnitude but it all adds up in the end and explains our current status: a good but not great team.
agreed but calculated risk when you are good is differnet than being stupid taking risks

the previous regime let all our ufa`s walk when we should of got some assets back

trading for Gomez, and Kabbie , and spending like a drunk on Gio/Cammy/Spacek

was a stupid risk that was never going to pan out cause those were never the core to start with and compete

the Halak deal and I said from day one was a great risk , Halak was not built for being a number 1 goalie and Eller had the makings of a legit top 6 player and with Price in the system its a good risk

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06-15-2013, 05:50 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
I wrote it quite poorly but, you bring up some good points. I'm thinking more of our current lineup and the risks we need to take to bring our team to the next level (i.e. Plekanec, Markov, ~Price, Bourque etc.). Looking at potential short term risk/loss and making it into a long-term gain.



That's what a lot of people miss out on. I'm happy with how well our team did this year and I'd hate to take away from their success but, I can't see us repeating or sustaining that type of production over an 82 game season, we hardly did over the 48.

Chicago, LA, Boston and Pittsburgh are all built around a group of elite core players that will give them a cup window for x amount of years. We have the chance to replicate that to a certain extent and we NEED to define our core and build around it. Add the players that give this group of core players the best chance at succeeding.

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-XXXXX
XXXXXXX-Eller?-Gallagher

XXXX-Subban
Tinordi-Beaulieu

Price

This is our core IMO. Build around this and give these players a chance to compete, our old core of Plekanec, Markov, ~Bourque, Gionta, Gomez, Cammy, etc. are passed their chance at competing. If we don't take this chance to build around this group of players, our moveable assets will have lost their value and we'll have missed our chance at building a powerhouse team.


beautiful great great thread , I would add Emelin and maybe a few others but you are correct much work is needed

bang on my friend

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06-15-2013, 05:55 PM
  #616
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I wrote it quite poorly but, you bring up some good points. I'm thinking more of our current lineup and the risks we need to take to bring our team to the next level (i.e. Plekanec, Markov, ~Price, Bourque etc.). Looking at potential short term risk/loss and making it into a long-term gain.



That's what a lot of people miss out on. I'm happy with how well our team did this year and I'd hate to take away from their success but, I can't see us repeating or sustaining that type of production over an 82 game season, we hardly did over the 48.

Chicago, LA, Boston and Pittsburgh are all built around a group of elite core players that will give them a cup window for x amount of years. We have the chance to replicate that to a certain extent and we NEED to define our core and build around it. Add the players that give this group of core players the best chance at succeeding.

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-XXXXX
XXXXXXX-Eller?-Gallagher

XXXX-Subban
Tinordi-Beaulieu

Price

This is our core IMO. Build around this and give these players a chance to compete, our old core of Plekanec, Markov, ~Bourque, Gionta, Gomez, Cammy, etc. are passed their chance at competing. If we don't take this chance to build around this group of players, our moveable assets will have lost their value and we'll have missed our chance at building a powerhouse team.
I agree with your vision of our core, I think Eller is a certainty imo and can be our current version of Plekanec, a solid two way center who can take the tough match-ups defensively.

Now I don't think anyone is untouchable in our line-up. But I'd be hesitant to trade away Plekanec because I don't think Galchenyuk is ready yet to take duties at center, as for Bourque, I'd have to think twice before trading him since he's exactly what we are looking to add and not trade away. I thought him and Plek were our best players in the playoffs and he brought his A game this season. But given his consistency issues in the past with Chicago and Calgary I wouldn't be afraid to trade him for the right offer.

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06-15-2013, 05:56 PM
  #617
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St. Louis fans can't wait Leopold to get off their team, he's been horrible for past 2 seasons, he just goes by reputation at this point. Like I've pointed out in the past, he's become a Jaro Spacek as in that he's supposed to be really good offensively but in fact he's nothing extraordinary, he'll give you about 25 pts despite a ******** of PP time. That's without adding that Leopold is pretty soft so he's the opposite of what we need right now.

If Lydman is every bit as good as Gorges why was he a healthy scratch on numerous occasions in Anaheim (who doesn't have a Los Angeles Kings-esque defense btw)? Gorges is better and a LOT younger.

Hainsey is better than getting the puck out than Markov? Markov is elite in that department, Hainsey is not physical at all for a guy of his size and makes a lot of questionnable decisions in his own end.

Ference is 5x times stronger than Gorges? I don't even know how you measured that but anyway... Why because he can throw cheapshots on players like Grabovski and Halpern? Ference gets outmuscled just as much as Gorges and is not as good defensively as him. The difference between him and Gorges is that Boston surrounds him with players like McQuaid and Boychuk who can help him in the physical department while we have Bouillon for that...
I said Markov... I meant Gorges. Will fix that in a little while.

Ference getting outmuscled as much as Gorges? Not as good defensively as him? Have you seen Gorges play in the last two years? The guy shouldn't make a penny more than what Gill makes. They're of the same breed, except Gill is bigger and even more of a PK machine.

Instead, he makes 4M per year on a 6 years contract.

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06-15-2013, 06:02 PM
  #618
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agreed but calculated risk when you are good is differnet than being stupid taking risks

the previous regime let all our ufa`s walk when we should of got some assets back

trading for Gomez, and Kabbie , and spending like a drunk on Gio/Cammy/Spacek

was a stupid risk that was never going to pan out cause those were never the core to start with and compete

the Halak deal and I said from day one was a great risk , Halak was not built for being a number 1 goalie and Eller had the makings of a legit top 6 player and with Price in the system its a good risk
Oh I agree 100% there's always a difference between those two. Kaberle was obviously the better player between him and Spacek but it was an idiotic move considering the cap hit of Kaberle and the lenght of the contract. Especially if you take in consideration that weeks prior to the trade Jim Rutherford was already throwing Kaberle under the bus and maybe with hindsight Carolina could have sweetened the deal with a pick to thank us for taking Kaberle's contract.

The Gomez trade was unjustifiable from the start, it was a lateral move AT BEST. At first it was rumored to be Higgins for Gomez as the main pieces of the deal so my initial reaction was a big meh since Gomez was better than Higgins but then the reports came out that McDonagh was included in the deal and I became furious. Replacing Koivu with Gomez wouldn't dramatically change the team but I never expected Gomez's game to drop this badly over the course of the last two years. It's funny to see a 38 year old Saku anchor Anaheim's 2nd line while some people thought he was past his prime.

I trust our current staff more than our old one, they gave an image that they were the cerebral type who play chess and evaluate every move to the very tiny detail but that was just an illusion.

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06-15-2013, 06:02 PM
  #619
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everyone knows that georges is overpaid by at least 1.4M, his value is around 2.5M-3M

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06-15-2013, 06:05 PM
  #620
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Now that shows that you either irrationnally hate Gorges or that you have no clue what you're talking about. I shat my pants every time Sopel and Spacek were on the ice because I knew one of them would **** up terribly. Sopel was just as slow as Gill ffs.
"You have no clue what you're talking about rahrahrahrahrah derp..."

Stop drinking the kool-aid. Gorges is the most overrated player on these boards. You and the others still fail to bring anything else than "shot-blocking" and those supposed leadership qualities to talk about what he brings as contributions to this team. Still, for the "great" leader he is supposed to be, he keeps saying the most stupid things, he keeps getting on Subban's back, and he keeps acting like a tool. His shot blocking is often a weakness, as he is very often the one deflecting shots in his own net. He's slow. He's not physical. He's got 0 offensive abilities. That, PLUS we saw last year he is bound to have one or two seasons here and there where he's not even good defensively... and all that, while playing on a team which was on a HUGE hot streak.

Bring me something this guy brings... Tell me about ONE thing. One SINGLE thing he brings other than shot blocking.

First pass?
Shooting?
Offensive zone passing?
Toughness?
Crease-clearing abilities?
Skating?

Tell me of ONE single aspect Gorges brings that makes you say: "Wow! He's really making a living out of doing that!"

Then, tell me if it's worth a 6 years contract for 4M a season.

You guys stop *****ing about how Bergevin will pay 7M dollars to a 23 years old Norris Trophy winner, and start wondering about how much we pay guys like Gorges and Gionta, who add absolutely nothing to the identity of a team, and who eat almost 15% of the salary cap.

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06-15-2013, 06:06 PM
  #621
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I said Markov... I meant Gorges. Will fix that in a little while.

Ference getting outmuscled as much as Gorges? Not as good defensively as him? Have you seen Gorges play in the last two years? The guy shouldn't make a penny more than what Gill makes. They're of the same breed, except Gill is bigger and even more of a PK machine.

Instead, he makes 4M per year on a 6 years contract.
Yeah I saw Gorges anchoring our top pairing last year with Subban. Now I'm not gonna lie Gorges had a very average season. I think it's more due to being a bad fit with Therrien's system who doesn't really prone a collapse style la New York Rangers and puts a lot of emphasis on quick transitions and some support from the defenseman in the offensive zone. Those things are not really Gorges' bread and butter. Despite that I still think he can offer some solid hockey for our team, you just have to match him up with a partner that gels well with him. Having Diaz and Gorges on the same pairing is a recipe for disaster. If Gorges has another disappointing season next year, I'm all for trading him since our prospects will be ready to step in but I'm not ready to throw in the towel because of a season that ended on a bitter note.

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06-15-2013, 06:07 PM
  #622
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everyone knows that georges is overpaid by at least 1.4M, his value is around 2.5M-3M
Gorges is supposed to get no more than guys like Ference and Gill. He should get 2-3 years contracts, around 2.5M.

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06-15-2013, 06:11 PM
  #623
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Yeah I saw Gorges anchoring our top pairing last year with Subban. Now I'm not gonna lie Gorges had a very average season. I think it's more due to being a bad fit with Therrien's system who doesn't really prone a collapse style la New York Rangers and puts a lot of emphasis on quick transitions and some support from the defenseman in the offensive zone. Those things are not really Gorges' bread and butter. Despite that I still think he can offer some solid hockey for our team, you just have to match him up with a partner that gels well with him. Having Diaz and Gorges on the same pairing is a recipe for disaster. If Gorges has another disappointing season next year, I'm all for trading him since our prospects will be ready to step in but I'm not ready to throw in the towel because of a season that ended on a bitter note.
The whole team had a great season if we forget about April. Still, Gorges has consistently been very sub-par. Isn't that a cause for concern? At 4M a year, you expect your player to adapt to the team around him. Especially when you sign him for 6 years...

The most concerning thing about him is that the ONLY aspect of his game that people COULD say made him worthy of his contract, was sub-part last season, on a year where the team had everything going its way.

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06-15-2013, 06:25 PM
  #624
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I agree with your vision of our core, I think Eller is a certainty imo and can be our current version of Plekanec, a solid two way center who can take the tough match-ups defensively.

Now I don't think anyone is untouchable in our line-up. But I'd be hesitant to trade away Plekanec because I don't think Galchenyuk is ready yet to take duties at center, as for Bourque, I'd have to think twice before trading him since he's exactly what we are looking to add and not trade away. I thought him and Plek were our best players in the playoffs and he brought his A game this season. But given his consistency issues in the past with Chicago and Calgary I wouldn't be afraid to trade him for the right offer.
Malhotra, Wellwood, Gordon, Hecht, Lapierre are all UFAs that could play on our 3rd line if need be.

Dumont, Leblanc, Bournival, Prust are all players that could play on the 3rd line within our organization.

Any number of these players would be excellent options to help insulate Galchenyuk's development.

So, to me, when you look at the big picture and building around the core, it's a heck of a lot easier to move Plekanec and sign a third line centre than it is to draft/trade/sign the player that would be coming back in return for Plekanec (top-3 dman, top-6 forward).

We have no one to replace Bourque in our organization positionally or in terms of physicality. If he's upgraded or traded for a younger player, great. Otherwise, it just leaves us with a big hole in the lineup.

I think we need one more high-impact winger or #2D to make us a highly competitive team.

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06-15-2013, 06:25 PM
  #625
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Gorges is built for a collapsing/shot blocking scheme. We now play a pressure system. He got exposed due to his lack of mobility, you need to be able to skate to defend in this system. Love the guy, but I think we should trade him at the draft to a team that plays to his strengths.

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