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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 11.0

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Old
06-15-2013, 12:12 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Latendresse was/is a tortoise. McCarron is not even close to being that slow.
Perhaps he was hurt in the game I saw, but he looked like a tortoise to me.

His skating looks better in the above games though, but even so, I see him a 2nd round prospect. He's a project.

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06-15-2013, 12:28 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
1987 and 1984 are just crazy. FOUR guys playing 1000 games in 1984, 3 in 1987 and 1 who came damn close. It's mind boggling.

And don't forget Ed Ronan in that 1987 class, huge hustle play to negate an icing in Game 2 in OT vs BUF in 1993 to set-up Carbo's winner!

Looking back at all those 80's drafts, it's stunning how many good players the scouting staff picked after round 1. Ludwig, Chelios, Kurvers, Lemieux, Richer, Roy, Lumme (who barely played here but had a solid NHL career), LeClair, Desjardins, Schneider, Brisebois, etc. Even useful parts like Momesso, Hill, Odelein, Brunet and Gilchrist. You can add in 1990 they got Craig Conroy in the 6th round and he played 1000 games in the league.

Yet they constantly failed in round 1 during that long stretch aside from 1984 with Svoboda and Corson and 1987 with Cassels. It shows you how inexact of a science this can be.
There was a common thread to many of the 1st round busts, Pederson, Bilodeau, Chouinard, Ward, M. Higgins, Ryan, etc.. couldn't skate. Not saying there weren't other issues but all pretty much had foot speed issues which the Habs would tell us would improve but didn't. So it wasn't bad luck, it was a bad philosophy. I will note that these boys were all at least averaged size, most bigger, so I think BPA back then had size as the main factor for the 1st round. Clearly starting with Andre Savard the focus became speed and skill so our success is much better Ù( along with TT ) , but it also means a small and not so physical team, because we usually don't pick where we get speed, skill and size, Patches, Tinordi with good speed anyway being exceptions ( Chips a real exception ) . This year I hope is different and we do land some big physical boys who can skate, especially at D ie Morin, Heatherington, etc. My fear is we pass them all over for averaged sized or under skill and speed guys , at least just one big bruising D potential guy in the 1st of our 3 picks and Im happy.

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06-15-2013, 12:38 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by dcal64 View Post
Desjardins had to go for his own good, he was the fans whipping boy, constantly being booed whenever turning over the puck.

Those fans must regret booing him out-of-town after the good career he had after he left.
Don't remember that. Do remember his rookie season when he was paired with Big Bird. God he impressed, especially with the confidence and ability he showed bringing the puck up ice. You easily saw he would be a solid two way, all around D-man.

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06-15-2013, 12:49 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Mueller may go top 15.. dreaming red white and blue technicolor if you think he's available at 55..same with Diaby in the 70's..I don't expect him to be there at 55...if he is you snap him up. In fact..if he's still on the board in the late 40's I could see the Habs surrendering a third rounder to move up to get him.

Mantha played on the pk quite a bit, and there's no doubt that he could be dangerous...he likes to basket hang at times..he has a knack for getting sprung behind the opponent's defence for breakaways both at even strength and on the PK. He is not averse to throwing hits, and I even saw him drop the gloves a couple of times (against much smaller opponents) and fare well in a scrap. He has good speed and a great shot..there are no doubts that he's an intriguing prospect, and will likely be picked somewhere in the 15-25 range because of his positive traits - size, speed, shot, skill, offensive hockey sense.

There are some question marks however - he took too many nights off, especially when the going got rough and the checking was tight. He does not like to get hit, and no one is going to describe him as gritty. He didn't step up and play consistently when his team needed it. For the most part he avoids the dirty areas.

I talked to one of Val Dor's chief scouts about him - he conceded that he's not the bravest player on the ice..noted that when he was drafted he was small (may have weighed 140 pounds)..had a major growth spurt..but may not be used to his size. Perhaps his mentality will change..but you would have to be hoping for something that is not likely to happen. Soft junior players for the most part remain soft players when they turn pro.

So - there are questions about character, competitiveness, and defensive play. Because of those concerns, I'm not sure he's a player the Habs would consider drafting in the first round if he's there. Lots of other options available with less question marks...this is a deep draft.

I really think grit, size and character are going to be key components in Habs' top picks this year, along with skill of course. You look at the Habs' division, and consider that in the future they will likely have to play the Bruins to advance in the playoffs. You look at Montreal's top prospects up front - Collberg, Kristo, Hudon, Bozon, Vail - while they aren't lacking in competitiveness, none would be described as big bruisers. You look at division opponents like Toronto and Ottawa, who will be adding the likes of Ross, Biggs, Noesen and Zibanejad (two years from now he'll be a beast physically), to their already gritty lineups.

Will the Habs win in the playoffs with Patch, Mantha, Gally, Eller/Plekanec/DD and Chucky in the top 6 a year or two from now? I don't see a lot of grit there - the hardest player is 5-8.

McCoshen/Mueller, McCarron, Bailey and Diaby..if the Habs can leave the draft with that group.....and a good goalie prospect...I will have considered it a major success. I really can't see McCarron dropping to 34 though - too many teams looking for that type of player.
Grant, I have said in a number of posts that the only downside with what I believe is our very good strategy otherwise of heavily weighting speed ( guy has to be able to skate ) and skill is that we haven't weighted size and physical play enough. Do you think Im accurate here and do you have any concerns that we wont take one of those big good skating bruisers at all in our top 3, if available. Also, what do you think ofDe la Rose and where would you rank him ? Thanks kindly.

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06-15-2013, 01:39 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Perhaps he was hurt in the game I saw, but he looked like a tortoise to me.

His skating looks better in the above games though, but even so, I see him a 2nd round prospect. He's a project.
If nothing changes from here till June 30th...I would consider taking Mike McCarron at pick number 55...not before...too much of a risk before than...he remains a project...he can easily turn out out to be the next Aaron Ward or Turner Stevenson...like McCarron...not great skaters. I would much prefer Dauphin, Poirier or Dickinson at pick 34 and 36.

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06-15-2013, 02:30 PM
  #556
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Need some help here.

Who's that player who says in good quebecois: "Ah Calissse!" at 0:14. It's the pregame of the 2013 IIHF U18 Gold Medal Game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdnTcPUS7uU

I think it's Yan Pavel Laplante..

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06-15-2013, 02:44 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Great story! My dad who passed away 2 years ago had also great stories as he was a usher at the Forum and Bell Centre as well as the Olympic Stadium for the Expos. When they were destroying the Forum, my dad was amongst the ushers that were chosen to guard it during the day. And there were a lot of known visitors that stopped by to go in and witness the destruction of it and such and the guy that left my father the biggest impression was....Adam Graves as strange as it sounds. He came in with his wife, asked my father to come in, my father knew who he was, and he accepted and Graves wanted to go at the center where the ice was and wasn't there anymore and was extremely touched to see that this great building was not going to be anymore...My father said that he was really emotional and he wasn't expected that. Anyway, that's far from the draft.....but true that it shouldn't make ourselves old compared to the rest of our net friends here, just happy to have been part of something great and hoping it can come back somehow. And the draft is the way to restart this thing...how do you like that to get back in topic???
A nice read!!!I remember when I was playing on an all-star team as a kid...we had a Saturday morning practice and hovering along the boards was Jacques Plante. He was a good friend of the father of one of our players. It certainly motivated me to skate that much faster. As well, when I was 16, I was working at the Sutton Place Hotel at the corner of Wellesley and Bay St. in Toronto. The Habs were playing the Leafs during the semi-final of the Stanley Cup playoffs. I knew the Canadiens were staying at the Sutton Place. A Greek waiter who worked in the dinning room was able to get the entire team to sign a menu for me...everybody signed...Lafleur, Shutt,
Mahovilich, Robinson, Lambert, Tremblay, Robinson, Lapointe, Savard...even Scotty Bowman. I saw and spoke to Risebrough in the lobby. Pierre Bouchard walked by me...what a monster of a man. For a school english assignement, I was hoping to interview Lafleur and Shutt who were sitting the hotel coffee shop. They were sitting at the end of the counter. When, I finally got the nerve to approach them, they stood up and headed to the cash register in order to pay their bill. I didn't feel like chasing them out of the coffee shop...knowing they were preparing for a match that evening against the Leafs.
I remember shaking hands with the Rocket...Maurice Richard in 1993...at a photo signature event. I remember thinking...what a big powerful hand...my hand was lost in his handshake. Great memories!!!

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Old
06-15-2013, 03:17 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by phillytennis View Post
If nothing changes from here till June 30th...I would consider taking Mike McCarron at pick number 55...not before...too much of a risk before than...he remains a project...he can easily turn out out to be the next Aaron Ward or Turner Stevenson...like McCarron...not great skaters. I would much prefer Dauphin, Poirier or Dickinson at pick 34 and 36.
I really think you should look at McCarron's stride again. It's not perfect, but there are no huge flaws in his mechanics. He generates a good amount of power and he's pretty fluid for a guy pushing a 6'5 body around. There's definitely a good base to work with, it's not easy at his size but it's definitely possible to add more power and quickness to his steps.

I don't know how he'll pan out offensively and everything, he seems to have good hockey sense and a pro quality shot. But there's no way you'll convince me that his skating is a problem. There are loads of ugly skaters in the NHL who look slow but still keep up with the pace and then some. McCarron rarely chased the play when I watched him... So if your concern's are mostly stemming from his skating, you should consider checking him out again.

He's probably a first rounder the way teams are looking for size up front, and I wouldn't be displeased with him in the first, as long as picks 34 and/or 36 have higher offensive ceilings.

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06-15-2013, 03:21 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
Need some help here.

Who's that player who says in good quebecois: "Ah Calissse!" at 0:14. It's the pregame of the 2013 IIHF U18 Gold Medal Game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdnTcPUS7uU

I think it's Yan Pavel Laplante..
Pretty sure it's him.

2nd from left

http://www.cybersoleil.com/2013/05/0...vient-avec-lor

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06-15-2013, 03:23 PM
  #560
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Going over some numbers, I wonder if Carrier and Klimchuk may be underrated because of their teams' inability to produce? Both CB and Regina scored well under 3pts per game, yet both players produced over 1ppg. Some similarities to Eberle and Regina in 07-08.

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Old
06-15-2013, 03:32 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Going over some numbers, I wonder if Carrier and Klimchuk may be underrated because of their teams' inability to produce? Both CB and Regina scored well under 3pts per game, yet both players produced over 1ppg. Some similarities to Eberle and Regina in 07-08.
I can say from lots of experience watching Carrier that he's being way under rated.

I view him in the 25-35 range. I'm seeing him generally as a late 2nd.

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06-15-2013, 03:57 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
Need some help here.

Who's that player who says in good quebecois: "Ah Calissse!" at 0:14. It's the pregame of the 2013 IIHF U18 Gold Medal Game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdnTcPUS7uU

I think it's Yan Pavel Laplante..
Ah t******k de câline*

Details matter.

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06-15-2013, 04:00 PM
  #563
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What would our 1st rd pick fitch?
A later 1st plus a second?
Or an early second plus a 3rd?
Just curious, just feels to me that there will be alot of second rounders that will become decent/good/great nhlers.
Really wouldnt mind having an extra second or two!

That or somehow trade for one of the top 3 picks, but that will never happen!

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Old
06-15-2013, 04:06 PM
  #564
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im also curious about Carrier... I have a lot of job this year and I have not follow the prospects more thn the previous years. So I dont have see him play and its pretty tough for me to have an opinion on him but he was on pace to get 35 goals and 90 points on a ba team so why a big guy of 6"2" 200 pounds dont get more love. What's the problem with him? Yes he's a little bit older than the others by Its not a reason.


Last edited by bleuetbio: 06-15-2013 at 04:24 PM.
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06-15-2013, 04:25 PM
  #565
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Grant and White snake I would like to know your opinion on Tyler Hill thanks in advance.

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06-15-2013, 04:41 PM
  #566
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I had called for McCarron & Hayden in Jan. when they were ranked about 35th & 59th. That was before the U/18 tournament, I figured that McCarron would go about 17/18 after and Hayden jumped to 29th.

Well here we are two weeks from the Draft and the Habs at 25th may be able to draft McCarron after all and Hayden has fallen off to the 70's. After reading results from the Combines NHL/Habs and Grant's advice and "The Hockey News Draft Preview" of Grant's as well, here are the picks I think the Habs can draft:

#25 - Mike McCarron - RW
#34 - Justin Bailey - C/RW
#36 - John I. Diaby - LD
#55 - Jusse Saros - G
#71 - John Hayden - C/RW
#85 - N. Moutrey - LW
#175 - T. Hill - LW
#205 - L. Coughlin - C

These draft picks may not impress fans the way last years picks did but, signing Prust, Armstrong and Boullion didn't impress us either. The results on the other hand were really impressive, finishing first in the division instead of last. I hope for the same results from the draft and winning the SC when those picks join the Habs in 3-4 yrs.

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06-15-2013, 05:04 PM
  #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post

McCoshen/Mueller, McCarron, Bailey and Diaby..if the Habs can leave the draft with that group.....and a good goalie prospect...I will have considered it a major success.
So is it safe to say that these would be your suggestions?

25 McCoshen/Mueller
34 McCarron
36 Bailey
57 Diaby

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06-15-2013, 05:22 PM
  #568
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I had called for McCarron & Hayden in Jan. when they were ranked about 35th & 59th. That was before the U/18 tournament, I figured that McCarron would go about 17/18 after and Hayden jumped to 29th.

Well here we are two weeks from the Draft and the Habs at 25th may be able to draft McCarron after all and Hayden has fallen off to the 70's. After reading results from the Combines NHL/Habs and Grant's advice and "The Hockey News Draft Preview" of Grant's as well, here are the picks I think the Habs can draft:

#25 - Mike McCarron - RW
#34 - Justin Bailey - C/RW
#36 - John I. Diaby - LD
#55 - Jusse Saros - G
#71 - John Hayden - C/RW
#85 - N. Moutrey - LW
#175 - T. Hill - LW
#205 - L. Coughlin - C

These draft picks may not impress fans the way last years picks did but, signing Prust, Armstrong and Boullion didn't impress us either. The results on the other hand were really impressive, finishing first in the division instead of last. I hope for the same results from the draft and winning the SC when those picks join the Habs in 3-4 yrs.
Diaby is taken too high IMO and I wouldn't draft Saros. Notice that all of the high impact goalies are at least 6'1/6'2. Saros is 5'10. I think the best he can do is career backup.

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Old
06-15-2013, 05:33 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Mueller may go top 15.. dreaming red white and blue technicolor if you think he's available at 55..same with Diaby in the 70's..I don't expect him to be there at 55...if he is you snap him up. In fact..if he's still on the board in the late 40's I could see the Habs surrendering a third rounder to move up to get him.

Mantha played on the pk quite a bit, and there's no doubt that he could be dangerous...he likes to basket hang at times..he has a knack for getting sprung behind the opponent's defence for breakaways both at even strength and on the PK. He is not averse to throwing hits, and I even saw him drop the gloves a couple of times (against much smaller opponents) and fare well in a scrap. He has good speed and a great shot..there are no doubts that he's an intriguing prospect, and will likely be picked somewhere in the 15-25 range because of his positive traits - size, speed, shot, skill, offensive hockey sense.

There are some question marks however - he took too many nights off, especially when the going got rough and the checking was tight. He does not like to get hit, and no one is going to describe him as gritty. He didn't step up and play consistently when his team needed it. For the most part he avoids the dirty areas.

I talked to one of Val Dor's chief scouts about him - he conceded that he's not the bravest player on the ice..noted that when he was drafted he was small (may have weighed 140 pounds)..had a major growth spurt..but may not be used to his size. Perhaps his mentality will change..but you would have to be hoping for something that is not likely to happen. Soft junior players for the most part remain soft players when they turn pro.

So - there are questions about character, competitiveness, and defensive play. Because of those concerns, I'm not sure he's a player the Habs would consider drafting in the first round if he's there. Lots of other options available with less question marks...this is a deep draft.

I really think grit, size and character are going to be key components in Habs' top picks this year, along with skill of course. You look at the Habs' division, and consider that in the future they will likely have to play the Bruins to advance in the playoffs. You look at Montreal's top prospects up front - Collberg, Kristo, Hudon, Bozon, Vail - while they aren't lacking in competitiveness, none would be described as big bruisers. You look at division opponents like Toronto and Ottawa, who will be adding the likes of Ross, Biggs, Noesen and Zibanejad (two years from now he'll be a beast physically), to their already gritty lineups.

Will the Habs win in the playoffs with Patch, Mantha, Gally, Eller/Plekanec/DD and Chucky in the top 6 a year or two from now? I don't see a lot of grit there - the hardest player is 5-8.

McCoshen/Mueller, McCarron, Bailey and Diaby..if the Habs can leave the draft with that group.....and a good goalie prospect...I will have considered it a major success. I really can't see McCarron dropping to 34 though - too many teams looking for that type of player.
Thanks for the input!

May have been asked before but where do you think Rychel ends up at the draft?

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06-15-2013, 05:44 PM
  #570
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Thanks for the input!

May have been asked before but where do you think Rychel ends up at the draft?
Hopefully anywhere else than at our table. With so much talent available and with Rychel's acknowledged limitations, let some other team take the risk that he may never attain NHL level skating skills. Enough of the Pederson, Bilodeau, Chouinard, Ward, M. Higgins, Ryan, etc. reaches and hopes. With the talent that will be available at 25, 34 and 36, taking Rychel would almost be an act of negligence.

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06-15-2013, 06:04 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Diaby is taken too high IMO and I wouldn't draft Saros. Notice that all of the high impact goalies are at least 6'1/6'2. Saros is 5'10. I think the best he can do is career backup.
Isn't the goalie we want going to be Price's back-up?
Diaby apparently has upside to his game like most 2nd round picks.

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06-15-2013, 07:12 PM
  #572
le_sean
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Isn't the goalie we want going to be Price's back-up?
Diaby apparently has upside to his game like most 2nd round picks.
Why would you draft a goalie whose upside is that of a backup? The goal should be to draft a goalie that can be better than the one you have now.

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06-15-2013, 07:29 PM
  #573
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Why would you draft a goalie whose upside is that of a backup? The goal should be to draft a goalie that can be better than the one you have now.
Saros if drafted, will at some point be the understudy to Price. Most goalies take up to eight years to refine their game and get consistency, some don't succeed or bust and others find a career as a backup goalie. In this era 1995-2013 teams have found more success with larger goalies that can handle the physical rigors (goalmouth scrambles) bigger forwards and larger nets, smaller pads, gloves etc. There are still smaller goalies that thrive in this era and I believe Saros can be one of them.

You need look no further than Anaheim's goalie Viktor Fasth the 6'0 - 186 lbs. phenom this season for proof that smaller goalies like him and Halak can play in the NHL.

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06-15-2013, 08:04 PM
  #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
I had called for McCarron & Hayden in Jan. when they were ranked about 35th & 59th. That was before the U/18 tournament, I figured that McCarron would go about 17/18 after and Hayden jumped to 29th.

Well here we are two weeks from the Draft and the Habs at 25th may be able to draft McCarron after all and Hayden has fallen off to the 70's. After reading results from the Combines NHL/Habs and Grant's advice and "The Hockey News Draft Preview" of Grant's as well, here are the picks I think the Habs can draft:

#25 - Mike McCarron - RW
#34 - Justin Bailey - C/RW
#36 - John I. Diaby - LD
#55 - Jusse Saros - G
#71 - John Hayden - C/RW
#85 - N. Moutrey - LW
#175 - T. Hill - LW
#205 - L. Coughlin - C

These draft picks may not impress fans the way last years picks did but, signing Prust, Armstrong and Boullion didn't impress us either. The results on the other hand were really impressive, finishing first in the division instead of last. I hope for the same results from the draft and winning the SC when those picks join the Habs in 3-4 yrs.
First four picks taken too early. Better players could be taken with those picks.

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06-15-2013, 08:12 PM
  #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsoil View Post
What would our 1st rd pick fitch?
A later 1st plus a second?
Or an early second plus a 3rd?
Just curious, just feels to me that there will be alot of second rounders that will become decent/good/great nhlers.
Really wouldnt mind having an extra second or two!

That or somehow trade for one of the top 3 picks, but that will never happen!
I would certainly trade our 1st pick and add two second round picks. Trade Josh Gorges for another second round pick...we could possibly have 6 picks in the second round...Dauphin, Poirier, Bailey, Santini, McCarron, Diaby...that would be a stupendous draft!!!!

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