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Rangers name Alain Vigneault head coach - Part II

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Old
06-15-2013, 08:35 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Sick Rash View Post
Just want to thank the Canucks fans, who are offering their insight on our new head coach. We really appreciate it! Really good stuff in this thread.
Came to post the exact same thing. Great stuff, Canuck fans - much appreciated.

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06-15-2013, 08:36 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by SlingshotVv View Post
As obvious as it is to be excited about AV coaching Kreider, Stepan, Nash, etc, I'm most interested in seeing what becomes of guys like MDZ and McD. Guys that have offensive potential to their game, that seemed to be getting completely stifled under Torts.
MDZ putting up 40 points isn't "completely stifled."


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06-15-2013, 08:46 PM
  #153
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Came to post the exact same thing. Great stuff, Canuck fans - much appreciated.
Yes. Thanks for all of the input. Very classy.

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06-15-2013, 08:47 PM
  #154
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Great hire....as a Devils fan this saddens me

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06-15-2013, 08:48 PM
  #155
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dz+ for kesler... wed have to take one of vans expensive dmans.. they have to many bodys on the backend.. but id love to inquire about that.. but then again most would!!

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06-15-2013, 08:53 PM
  #156
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very happy to have AV. Very good move by the NYR getting the best coach available for this team.

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06-15-2013, 08:57 PM
  #157
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There were some problems with AV in Vancouver not matching his tie to his suit as well as he could have, so I have my reservations....kidding, kidding.

Tippett was my first choice, but this is okay. Coach in place well before the end of June. I never thought this would be done by now.

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06-15-2013, 08:57 PM
  #158
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I think the NYR are a perfect fit for AV. Defense first approach with a questionable forward group is his forte.

Things AV does well:
- match lines
- hands off approach to the locker room (lets the players sort it out themselves)
- builds a culture of the hockey team being a family
- rewards grinders
- favours players who make "safe" plays (think plays off the boards, chip n chase)
- can shelter players very well
- handles/rides his #1s very well
- can handle the big markets (MTL, VAN, NYR?)
- lines go through a blender until chemistry is set (Sedins-Burrows have been a line for 5 years where as Kesler gets new linemates every season)

Critiques for AV
- doesn't make obvious adjustments until later, sometimes never at all (PP options)
- plays some players far too much, Pyatt was a former AV pet
- not a great motivator
- team doesn't give 100% every game or 60 minute efforts
- near the end the Canucks didn't play a 60 minute game until our last 2 playoff games. That's 2/50 games this season
- zero accountability for penalties taken
- rookies need to be able to play in the d-zone

Things to expect:
- safe plays will determine ice time
- troubling use of defensemen
- M. Staal to be relied upon heavily, MDZ will either be benched or play lots
- zone deployment (top 6 getting heavy o-zone starts, 3rd/4th line taking all the defensive draws)
- be prepared for bottom 6 players not to contribute on the scoresheet
- less blocked shots
- some players like Callahan to be used a lot. Dubinsky would've been an AV fav IMO
- some lines will be purely defensive

I think NYR will have a great season. AVs strength is getting a lot out of a weak skating group and relying on a Vezina goalie. If lines 1-4 win their matchups then you'll win, fix your bottom 6.

Ps. Do NOT sign Mason Raymond.


Last edited by kthsn: 06-15-2013 at 09:04 PM.
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06-15-2013, 09:03 PM
  #159
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just wanted to let you guys know you got a great coach coming in. I called the AV to Rangers thing as soon as Tortorella was fired. He just makes too much sense in NY and think he'll do an excellent job there.

I have been a huge defender of AV for a long time. While I can understand his time was up in Vancouver as it would be for nearly any coach after that much time in one job, he's still an elite coach IMO and often defended him against the mob mentality that starts up among Canucks fans who seemed to develop a hate-on for AV.

I think he'll do an excellent job in NY. The team is built for his type of system and coaching. I suspect it'll also be a pleasant change for the players, fans and media after the friction that Torts usually created among that group.

Expect the first few months however to be a bit of a rollercoaster ride, which should be expected with any new coach coming in. He'll experiment with lines often, and will push some players harder than others who'll quickly become considered among fans as being in the doghouse, but have patience. Consider the many players that have come through Vancouver's system playing bit roles and often talked about among fans as not being given a proper chance under AV, only to develop into solid or key players for this team. The Sedins weren't being given enough icetime at one point (common criticism AV heard here) and turned into 100+ point players under his coaching where he maximized their offensive roles.. Kesler was a 3rd liner, Burrows a 4th liner.. Hansen was considered to be in the doghouse for years and many people hated on AV for hating Hansen, who was one of AV's favorites the last couple years (see a similar situation with Hagelin IMO)... AV has been solid getting the most out of his players and often pushing the right buttons to help the players' development cycles. Of course it's never perfect (see Ballard who he just couldn't work with), but when a team goes from missing the playoffs to back to back Presidents' under his coaching, he's doing a lot more right than wrong.

Wish AV all the best in NY. He deserves it and certainly deserves a lot better than the crap he often got from fans in Vancouver over the last couple years. Still one of the best coaches in the business IMO. Just needed a fresh start.

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06-15-2013, 09:11 PM
  #160
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Excellent choice. I approve.

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06-15-2013, 09:12 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I tend to agree that the dump and chase is fine if executed correctly, but that certainly wasn't the sentiment of most Rangers fans this past season.
Rangers never went to the net consistently. Infuriating

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Old
06-15-2013, 09:14 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
dz+ for kesler... wed have to take one of vans expensive dmans.. they have to many bodys on the backend.. but id love to inquire about that.. but then again most would!!
That would have to be a significant +.

Vancouver's expensive Dmen are also really good, except for Ballard.

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06-15-2013, 09:18 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
That would have to be a significant +.

Vancouver's expensive Dmen are also really good, except for Ballard.
the Rangers have zero chance of acquiring Ballard. Even if he's bought out from Vancouver, and agreed to sign at minimum with the Rangers, they would pass. Ballard just doesn't work with AV, and I doubt they would even consider that failed experiment again in New York.

some players just don't work with some coaches.. Ballard and AV is one such combo.

Though don't be surprised to see Rome acquired. A clear example of the opposite - an average (or arguably below average) dman that seemed to fit AV's system perfectly and did play much better than the #7 role he was supposed to fill on our roster.

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Old
06-15-2013, 09:27 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
the Rangers have zero chance of acquiring Ballard. Even if he's bought out from Vancouver, and agreed to sign at minimum with the Rangers, they would pass. Ballard just doesn't work with AV, and I doubt they would even consider that failed experiment again in New York.

some players just don't work with some coaches.. Ballard and AV is one such combo.

Though don't be surprised to see Rome acquired. A clear example of the opposite - an average (or arguably below average) dman that seemed to fit AV's system perfectly and did play much better than the #7 role he was supposed to fill on our roster.
My post was implying that I want nothing to do with Ballard, bought out or not.

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06-15-2013, 09:28 PM
  #165
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I wonder if Torts became expendable the moment AV got canned.

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Old
06-15-2013, 09:39 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
They had ~64% winning percentage with at least one of Crosby/Malkin in the lineup that year (up til feb 4th their first 53 games).

They had a 51% winning percentage with neither of them in the lineup (rest of the season - 29 games).

Obv again breaking sample sizes down to even smaller ones.

So seems to me in general he didn't take those teams to 100+ points. Crosby/malkin got them a huge points edge early and then when they were out the rest of the guys played basically .500 hockey to earn the remaining points.
a coach who wins games when his best players win/are in the lineup.

what a novel idea ;-)

sorry brother, but thats true of almost any coach.

Maclean this year was incredible, but for the most part, most coaches will fail when their best players arent performing/are injured

Rangers lose with Richards & Gaborik complete no-shows this year.

shocking

Rangers win the east (in the R.S.) and get to the ECF with Gabby & Richards playing at an elite level.

shocking.

Same thing with Tom Renney...when Jagr and Lundqvist were at their best, he won, when they weren't we didnt.

My issues with Renney was the complete lack of accountability he had with the team other than Dubinsky...and tactical stuff as well.

Granted, i was way too hard on him, but hey, ppl make mistakes.

with that said, Torts is a great coach, and we're going to miss that level of accountability, however if A.V. can keep that accountability he inherited in this team, build on the defensive conscience we already have, and implement a PP, this team will win.

period.

our issues during Torts era wasnt our D. it wasnt our O.

it was our PP...

we had elite PKs during his tenure prior to this year, which offset the abysmal PP...this year, not so much.

back your post though, every coach needs their horses.

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Old
06-15-2013, 09:42 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
MDZ putting up 40 points isn't "completely stifled."

well one of MDZ's strengths was his long pass on the breakout, but requiring all your forwards to be "on the right side" of a neutral puck, doesn't allow for many spring passes to breaking forwards. Not to mention the bang-and-chip method of clearing the zone, is a terrible way to get your defenseman to begin rushes with momentum.

Or, you know, we can watch the stats, and pretend hockey is played on a calculator.

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06-15-2013, 10:25 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
a coach who wins games when his best players win/are in the lineup.

what a novel idea ;-)

sorry brother, but thats true of almost any coach.

etc..
I'm not sure what your argument? Of course it's true that coaches need their best players to perform well. I am just commenting on the comment that "Bylsma led his team to be great, 100+ point team, even with Malkin and Crosby missing that much time" and showing that it is not true. With Malkin and Crosby they were a great team. Without them they were marginally above average. Now would they have been worse then they were without malkin/crosby had they had a different coach? Certainly possible. But it's not fair to say he did such a great job and maintained a great team without them since the team really didn't perform that well without them.

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06-15-2013, 10:28 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
I'm not sure what your argument? Of course it's true that coaches need their best players to perform well. I am just commenting on the comment that "Bylsma led his team to be great, 100+ point team, even with Malkin and Crosby missing that much time" and showing that it is not true. With Malkin and Crosby they were a great team. Without them they were marginally above average. Now would they have been worse then they were without malkin/crosby had they had a different coach? Certainly possible. But it's not fair to say he did such a great job and maintained a great team without them since the team really didn't perform that well without them.
fair enough.

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06-15-2013, 10:46 PM
  #170
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Wow. This takes some getting used to. I still see Torts behind the bench.

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06-15-2013, 11:02 PM
  #171
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Wow. This takes some getting used to. I still see Torts behind the bench.
You might want to see a doctor about that. We have good healthcare in Canada.

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Old
06-15-2013, 11:06 PM
  #172
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My post was implying that I want nothing to do with Ballard, bought out or not.
Well, that certainly won't be a problem for you now. He'd probably set himself on fire like a Vietnamese monk than willingly rejoin AV on the Rangers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
I think the NYR are a perfect fit for AV. Defense first approach with a questionable forward group is his forte.

Things AV does well:
- match lines Sometimes to a fault. If your team's on the road and the opponent starts double-shifting their offensive stars, your shutdown line suddenly never leaves the ice while your own offensive guys are stapled to the bench. Bad news if you're down.
- hands off approach to the locker room (lets the players sort it out themselves)
- builds a culture of the hockey team being a family
- rewards grinders Ohhh yes. Yes he does. AV loooooooves his grinders.
- favours players who make "safe" plays (think plays off the boards, chip n chase) "Chip off the boards". Get ready to see that one a lot leaving your zone.
- can shelter players very well
- handles/rides his #1s very well
- can handle the big markets (MTL, VAN, NYR?)
- lines go through a blender until chemistry is set (Sedins-Burrows have been a line for 5 years where as Kesler gets new linemates every season) Also can do this too much. Sometimes can be too impatient, and doesn't always go back to combinations you've seen work. eg: This season, Roy and Higgins showed instant rapport; Higgins gets hurt and Roy (the prize centre we'd been waiting for all year) gets moved to Kesler's wing. Also, Schroeder and Raymond were making great plays together before Kesler came back. Kes comes back and that was split up. Kes promptly gets hurt again, but it's never put back together.

Critiques for AV
- doesn't make obvious adjustments until later, sometimes never at all (PP options)
- plays some players far too much, Pyatt was a former AV pet
- not a great motivator
- team doesn't give 100% every game or 60 minute efforts
- near the end the Canucks didn't play a 60 minute game until our last 2 playoff games. That's 2/50 games this season
- zero accountability for penalties taken Also dependent on the player. This is where you'll find out who AV's pets and whipping boys are. Ballard makes a bad play, he's behind Cam "I can't play hockey" Barker. Edler makes 10 brain-dead giveaways a game, and he gets more icetime than ever.
- rookies need to be able to play in the d-zone

Things to expect:
- safe plays will determine ice time
- troubling use of defensemen
- M. Staal to be relied upon heavily, MDZ will either be benched or play lots
- zone deployment (top 6 getting heavy o-zone starts, 3rd/4th line taking all the defensive draws)
- be prepared for bottom 6 players not to contribute on the scoresheet
- less blocked shots
- some players like Callahan to be used a lot. Dubinsky would've been an AV fav IMO AV is going to absolutley ADORE Callahan. Slam dunk bromance there.
- some lines will be purely defensive
- a new defensive system. How well your guys pick it should be evident before very long.

I think NYR will have a great season. AVs strength is getting a lot out of a weak skating group and relying on a Vezina goalie. If lines 1-4 win their matchups then you'll win, fix your bottom 6.

Ps. Do NOT sign Mason Raymond.
Added stuff in bold.

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Old
06-15-2013, 11:13 PM
  #173
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Wow. This takes some getting used to. I still see Torts behind the bench.
Yeah, I'm going to miss Torts. Oh well. Time to move on.

Some of the pros and cons about AV sounds similar to Torts. I like his team's power play rankings over the years. That's what killed the team last year.

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06-15-2013, 11:22 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by ProstheticConscience View Post
Well, that certainly won't be a problem for you now. He'd probably set himself on fire like a Vietnamese monk than willingly rejoin AV on the Rangers.



Added stuff in bold.
Torts was terrible with the stupid "chip it up the boards." That was his definition of a breakout. How was your transition game under AV?

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06-15-2013, 11:42 PM
  #175
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Torts was terrible with the stupid "chip it up the boards." That was his definition of a breakout. How was your transition game under AV?
Chip it down the boards.

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