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Rangers name Alain Vigneault head coach - Part II

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Old
06-15-2013, 11:50 PM
  #176
haveandare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
I think the NYR are a perfect fit for AV. Defense first approach with a questionable forward group is his forte.

Things AV does well:
- match lines
- hands off approach to the locker room (lets the players sort it out themselves)
- builds a culture of the hockey team being a family
- rewards grinders
- favours players who make "safe" plays (think plays off the boards, chip n chase)
- can shelter players very well
- handles/rides his #1s very well
- can handle the big markets (MTL, VAN, NYR?)
- lines go through a blender until chemistry is set (Sedins-Burrows have been a line for 5 years where as Kesler gets new linemates every season)

Critiques for AV
- doesn't make obvious adjustments until later, sometimes never at all (PP options)
- plays some players far too much, Pyatt was a former AV pet
- not a great motivator
- team doesn't give 100% every game or 60 minute efforts
- near the end the Canucks didn't play a 60 minute game until our last 2 playoff games. That's 2/50 games this season
- zero accountability for penalties taken
- rookies need to be able to play in the d-zone

Things to expect:
- safe plays will determine ice time
- troubling use of defensemen
- M. Staal to be relied upon heavily, MDZ will either be benched or play lots
- zone deployment (top 6 getting heavy o-zone starts, 3rd/4th line taking all the defensive draws)
- be prepared for bottom 6 players not to contribute on the scoresheet
- less blocked shots
- some players like Callahan to be used a lot. Dubinsky would've been an AV fav IMO
- some lines will be purely defensive

I think NYR will have a great season. AVs strength is getting a lot out of a weak skating group and relying on a Vezina goalie. If lines 1-4 win their matchups then you'll win, fix your bottom 6.

Ps. Do NOT sign Mason Raymond.
I see a lot of Torts in there. I really hope that there's a noticeable change in the way the team plays.

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Old
06-16-2013, 12:04 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
I see a lot of Torts in there. I really hope that there's a noticeable change in the way the team plays.
On paper and on ice are two different things. Same parts can be in two different machines.

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Old
06-16-2013, 12:06 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
Torts was terrible with the stupid "chip it up the boards." That was his definition of a breakout. How was your transition game under AV?
To be fair, it did have moments of brilliance, but usually when the Sedins jumped on a spontaneous mistake in the offensive zone. Transition game's been a sore spot last season and a half.

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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
I see a lot of Torts in there. I really hope that there's a noticeable change in the way the team plays.
Yeah, this is one reason I'm not terribly interested in getting Torts out here. When I read Rangers' fans complaints, I see a lot of the same things we've been *****ing about for a while.

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06-16-2013, 12:32 AM
  #179
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Hoping AV has success in NY. Loved him as a coach. Thought he brought out the best in a ton of our players but I guess it was due.

The media and fans here in Van looked for a scapegoat and he eventually was that.

The Rangers will prob be slow out the gate but be patient. His teams usually turn it up after the first month and start throwing tons of wins together.

He wasnt great at adjustments here but I'm thinking that he's learned tons even from his firing on things he would change. Especially considering that he's got totally new personnel.

Only problem I had with him was not giving a long enough leash to young players to grow from their mistakes. Especially in the reg season when the games arent as important.

But That's 1 problem for a ton of positives.

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Old
06-16-2013, 12:48 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Hoping AV has success in NY. Loved him as a coach. Thought he brought out the best in a ton of our players but I guess it was due.

The media and fans here in Van looked for a scapegoat and he eventually was that.

The Rangers will prob be slow out the gate but be patient. His teams usually turn it up after the first month and start throwing tons of wins together.

He wasnt great at adjustments here but I'm thinking that he's learned tons even from his firing on things he would change. Especially considering that he's got totally new personnel.

Only problem I had with him was not giving a long enough leash to young players to grow from their mistakes. Especially in the reg season when the games arent as important.

But That's 1 problem for a ton of positives.
I'm curious to see if his Octobers were a part of Luongo's poor Octobers and the team's overall slow start or something about his coaching and his coaching staff's coaching.

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Old
06-16-2013, 01:01 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProstheticConscience View Post

Yeah, this is one reason I'm not terribly interested in getting Torts out here. When I read Rangers' fans complaints, I see a lot of the same things we've been *****ing about for a while.
Tortorella was not a bad coach here. Vigneault seems like he'll be easier on the players, fix the power play (or at least make it better than 5% during the playoffs), and not start the 4th line in the offensive zone constantly. I think a lot of us are fine with the way the Rangers played under Tortorella for the most part, until this season. A new voice will be a positive for the Rangers, and minor tweaks to the system with more offensive creativity and suddenly the Rangers are more at the 2012 team's level...or better.

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Old
06-16-2013, 01:06 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
Tortorella was not a bad coach here. Vigneault seems like he'll be easier on the players, fix the power play (or at least make it better than 5% during the playoffs), and not start the 4th line in the offensive zone constantly. I think a lot of us are fine with the way the Rangers played under Tortorella for the most part, until this season. A new voice will be a positive for the Rangers, and minor tweaks to the system with more offensive creativity and suddenly the Rangers are more at the 2012 team's level...or better.
we don't tolerate this kind of thinking here.

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Old
06-16-2013, 01:08 AM
  #183
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lets just hope AV will actually practice offense

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Old
06-16-2013, 01:11 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by blooblood View Post
lets just hope AV will actually practice offense
This is the type of radical idea that will change the history of this franchise.

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Old
06-16-2013, 01:15 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
This is the type of radical idea that will change the history of this franchise.
idk offense? practicing it?


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06-16-2013, 01:20 AM
  #186
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I'm actually really curious as to what "We don't practice offense" means.

What does a normal practice include?
What is considered to be offense and what is considered to be "drills", "skating", or other individual tasks?
What IS practicing offense?

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06-16-2013, 01:21 AM
  #187
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People say AV is a good defence first coach but he really isn't.

His strategy is all out offence with the defence pinching and the top players getting the offensive draws while all the grinders/3/4th liners getting the defensive draws.

Be prepared to heavily rely on Henrik L, even more than you were before.

Those hoping for offence, you won't be disappointed.

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Old
06-16-2013, 01:31 AM
  #188
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So, y'all know that every single hockey coach anywhere preaches "chip it up the boards," right? That's called good defensive play! You can't go passing it up the middle out of the defensive zone, that's nuts! "Grapes wants it off the glass," don'tyaknow? That is not something unique to anyone's system, that's just hockey, if you don't have room to skate it out, put it off the glass, that's defence 101.

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06-16-2013, 01:34 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13elieve View Post
People say AV is a good defence first coach but he really isn't.

His strategy is all out offence with the defence pinching and the top players getting the offensive draws while all the grinders/3/4th liners getting the defensive draws.

Be prepared to heavily rely on Henrik L, even more than you were before.

Those hoping for offence, you won't be disappointed.
Have you seen the Rangers circa 2005-2013?

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Old
06-16-2013, 01:35 AM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey McCanucks View Post
So, y'all know that every single hockey coach anywhere preaches "chip it up the boards," right? That's called good defensive play! You can't go passing it up the middle out of the defensive zone, that's nuts! "Grapes wants it off the glass," don'tyaknow? That is not something unique to anyone's system, that's just hockey, if you don't have room to skate it out, put it off the glass, that's defence 101.
and if you do have the room to skate it out? the problem wasnt chipping off the glass, the problem was ONLY chipping off the glass. they would collapse below the circles and chip it right to the opposing defender every time. watch some of the boston series highlights, most of the time we got scored on by dmen because of the terrible collapse and turn it over system we were using. even in the caps series Green was the most dangerous player for that caps team. the defense at the end of the season was disgusting and the PK was brutal all year as well.

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06-16-2013, 01:46 AM
  #191
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I feel like I should be actually trying to contribute toward the debate instead of making dumb remarks at everything everyone posts since I have probably watched the most Canucks and Rangers coverage in the last 4 years.

All I will say is this though. AV is far more adaptable than Torts because AV's overall game is more balanced and therefore, he doesn't need to make certain major adjustments to address malfunctions. One big difference is that AV actually thinks of the neutral zone as a zone for transition instead of Torts who I don't think has ever thought of the neutral zone as more than the zone where you get your forwards to step up and take the oppositions' players out of the play and regaining puck possession in our defensive zone where the two stay at homes will sling the puck back and forth before attempting to get it up the ice by chipping and chasing or dumping and chasing.

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Old
06-16-2013, 01:57 AM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey McCanucks View Post
So, y'all know that every single hockey coach anywhere preaches "chip it up the boards," right? That's called good defensive play! You can't go passing it up the middle out of the defensive zone, that's nuts! "Grapes wants it off the glass," don'tyaknow? That is not something unique to anyone's system, that's just hockey, if you don't have room to skate it out, put it off the glass, that's defence 101.
Yup. The Rangers wingers just aren't strong enough on the puck and their centers aren't that great at maintaining possession down the middle of the ice. The Bruins' defenders always chip pucks off the boards, but their wingers win all the puck battles, try to set up the center and begin a rush the other way.

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Old
06-16-2013, 04:58 AM
  #193
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First, congrats on getting the Best coach on the market, was just time for a shake up/change with the Canucks. There has been some good stuff posted on the way AV approaches the game already so I will not add to much, just ignore the haters since AV will prove them wrong...

All ready been said I would say, But AV line juggles like no one else, make of it what you will but as a fan you will need to deal with it

Break outs were broken for the last two seasons I would say, but when they were doing well AV liked a good quick transition and in the 2011 run that transition was as quick as they come

of late when the D gets the puck in there own zone they would pull back and try and get the fore-checker to come up, creating a gap, while sending all three forwards up the ice then they would try and use they space and try connect with the open player. This was fairly well scouted in the west and teams were happy to hang back or send in two for checkers hard so all our D could do was hide behind the net and ring it around the boards for a tip in.

the drop pass was used a lot, I would guess as a way to beat traps, this was also well scouted and I feel teams new it was coming so they would set a trap and have a guy floating for the drop pass, LA sure did in 2012...

when defending in our zone instead of try and clog up the shooting lane and block shots, the canucks were happier to try and keep the puck carrier on the outside, and tie up passing lanes, allowing the puck carrier to have a "free" shot from the bad angle with the goalie seeing it all the way.

offensively I will be interested how he sets up with the rangers next season, with the canucks he had them set up a cycle most of the time, but that has alot to do with having the twins, and also no players that would try and get into the slot. also a lot of the plan for offence I think was to give up a bad shot and try and use speed and quick transition to counter but after 2011 we seemed to try and keep the game tighter (or lost that quick transition for whatever reason) and that dried up our offence I feel.

one last thing, It was no secret that the canucks were a better team when they out hit there opponent, in the 2011 run there was a stat that had our chance of winning increase a lot when we out hit the other team, and often we would outhit them by a wide margin.


Hope that helps and adds something to look out for, just my opinions, others may disagree


Last edited by Stories Tales Lies: 06-16-2013 at 05:04 AM.
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Old
06-16-2013, 05:45 AM
  #194
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So, whats happening to the Assistants Coaches positions?

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Old
06-16-2013, 06:08 AM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey McCanucks View Post
So, y'all know that every single hockey coach anywhere preaches "chip it up the boards," right? That's called good defensive play! You can't go passing it up the middle out of the defensive zone, that's nuts! "Grapes wants it off the glass," don'tyaknow? That is not something unique to anyone's system, that's just hockey, if you don't have room to skate it out, put it off the glass, that's defence 101.
You're missing the point. Tortorella did it, so therefore it's bad. Learn that concept and you'll fit in well here.

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Old
06-16-2013, 06:20 AM
  #196
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Is Brooks trying to undermine Vigneault already with this suggestion?

Quote:
The Rangers should hire Mark Messier as head coach ... of the re-christened AHL Hartford Wolf Pack.

That is the place for Messier, passed over in his bid to start his career behind the bench at the top, to begin. That is the place for Messier to build a foundation that will take him on the path to the NHL.

That is the place general manager Glen Sather would all but certainly be happy to place Messier in conjunction with making current head man and well respected organization soldier Ken Gernander an associate coach.
Quote:
They should hire Messier to take over the Wolf Pack as the first step in a coaching journey that could lead right back to Broadway.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers


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06-16-2013, 06:31 AM
  #197
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Is Brooks trying to undermine Vigneault already with this suggestion?





http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers

I don't think so, though I can see how it is interpreted that way. I see it more as him saying, "Messier needs to start at a lower level. The Wolfpack job would be good for him. And who knows, maybe one day that could lead him to getting the job he wanted in the first place."

As has been established, head coaches have short shelf lives. How many active NHL head coaches have held the same job for more than 5 years? Even a relatively recent Stanley Cup couldn't save Dan Bylsma from hitting the hot seat. It's not unrealistic to think that Vigneault has some good seasons here (or maybe bad, who knows) but is off the job after 3-4 seasons. And if Messier earns his stripes in Hartford during that time then guess who would automatically be a prime candidate for the job?

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06-16-2013, 06:39 AM
  #198
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Pleased we'll still be playing defensive hockey

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06-16-2013, 06:55 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Ask any Canuck fan (knowledgeable) and they'll tell you that AV gets outcoached, moreso in the playoffs.
Yeah, Probably has nothing to do with players.. The guy wins, if You're saying he get's outcoached on a regular basis because Vancouver isn't lining the wall with Cup's, I guess all the coaches are bums in the NHL

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06-16-2013, 07:00 AM
  #200
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Av preaches zone time. Have the puck on our stick in all zones and we will be ok. It' s no where near the defensive and total opposite of "safe is death" approach this team practiced under torts.

Can Canuck fans tell us a little about the penalty kill and power play approach of AV?

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