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Poor Playoff Performance Shows That LA Kings Anze Kopitar Is Not An Elite Player…Yet

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Old
06-15-2013, 10:51 AM
  #76
Telos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
You're a moderator, right? If we aren't suppose to debate and only discuss cupcakes and sunshine, maybe you should use your sexy powers and close the thread.
Oh please, martyrdom isn't going to help, and it doesn't suit you. I have no problems with this thread existing, and I am just merely pointing out that this "debate" that you claim exists is you and you alone. Criticizing his playoff performance is easily warranted, but saying his best days are behind him because of a dozen games at the end of the year is sensationalist and taunting.

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06-15-2013, 11:00 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Oh please, martyrdom isn't going to help, and it doesn't suit you. I have no problems with this thread existing, and I am just merely pointing out that this "debate" that you claim exists is you and you alone. Criticizing his playoff performance is easily warranted, but saying his best days are behind him because of a dozen games at the end of the year is sensationalist and taunting.
LOL, you are obviously only reading what fits you....I wrote awhile back that I think Kopitar is going to be just fine.

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06-15-2013, 11:30 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
LOL, you are obviously only reading what fits you....I wrote awhile back that I think Kopitar is going to be just fine.
And then you immediately followed it up with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
Obviously, Kopitar has always been considered a good player, but I don't believe he turned the corner to 'elite' status until the playoff performance of 2012.

That's the debate.....that it was short-lived.
I am merely pointing out that there is no debate, you're the only one "debating" that prediction, and that that prediction is baseless and unknowable. It is a note of sensation, nothing more. You're the only one to suggest that anything was short-lived.

Gann's point in the article is far different, he is arguing that this performance proves that Kopitar was never elite, but that he could still could easily become elite one day, in his eyes. The issue of the whole argument revolves around the definition of the world "elite" which is insanely relative around these boards, and the sport in general. So much so that it renders the word virtually unknowable and pointless. It can now only be known through consensus.

Everyone was disappointed with Kopitar's playoff performance, but overall Kopitar is a proven commodity and such a small oddity in his performance given its grand scheme offers little ground to argue that his future would be anything than what he's given us year after year for a while now. If his play from this postseason continues throughout next year, then yeah, there would have to be a "debate", but arguing over if he is Lecavalier 2.0 after a dozen mediocre weeks is a lonely arena. You'd be the only participant no matter which corner you choose.

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06-15-2013, 11:35 AM
  #79
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I can think of a few other posters a little more riled up about Kopi than Axl.

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06-15-2013, 11:42 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Kings Drummer View Post
I can think of a few other posters a little more riled up about Kopi than Axl.
Perhaps upset over his playoff performance, sure. But would any of them pick up the banner and debate over whether or not the best is behind him? Such a discussion is eerily similar to that of Quick's trying season, and now there is a parade held in his honor any which way you look. There is just not enough information to have any rational discussion over Kopitar's future without it just being shot-in-the-dark predictions.

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06-15-2013, 11:47 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Perhaps upset over his playoff performance, sure. But would any of them pick up the banner and debate over whether or not the best is behind him? Such a discussion is eerily similar to that of Quick's trying season, and now there is a parade held in his honor any way you look. There is just not enough information to have any rational discussion over Kopitar's future without it just being shot-in-the-dark predictions.
Yes I can think of at least 2 posters. I won't name names but some pretty absurd things have been said about him over the last few weeks.

As far as Quick goes, he looked pretty human at times this season. Playoffs and regular season. I was actually one of the few beating the drum to give Bernier more playing time but there really isn't much doubt in my mind who our number 1 goalie and center are.

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06-15-2013, 11:58 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Kings Drummer View Post
I was actually one of the few beating the drum to give Bernier more playing time but there really isn't much doubt in my mind who our number 1 goalie and center are.
I definitely agree with this point. I think Sutter was off his rocker playing Quick so much, especially with the numbers Bernier was putting up. We absolutely need to utilize our backups more. He was on pace to play 63 games this year had it of been an 82 game season. Personally, I don't think he should be playing more than 55.

As far as Kopitar goes, it was a wacky season all-around. The CBA year is known to create many oddities. We'll see how he fares after he gets a good rest this season, away from the celebrations, allowed to train, not get injured at the start of the year, and given a real training camp to get back on track. I have very little doubt that he'll return as good as new. He's a hard worker and he cares immensely for the club and his teammates. He's been our best regular contributor for a long time now, there's very little reason to doubt it moving forward, wonky definitions of "elite" aside. I agree that there is very little doubt at who our #1 guy is.

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06-15-2013, 12:32 PM
  #83
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Telos, never ever did I say Kopitars best days are behind him.....maybe you got that from someone else, not me.

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06-15-2013, 01:01 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
I definitely agree with this point. I think Sutter was off his rocker playing Quick so much, especially with the numbers Bernier was putting up. We absolutely need to utilize our backups more. He was on pace to play 63 games this year had it of been an 82 game season. Personally, I don't think he should be playing more than 55.

As far as Kopitar goes, it was a wacky season all-around. The CBA year is known to create many oddities. We'll see how he fares after he gets a good rest this season, away from the celebrations, allowed to train, not get injured at the start of the year, and given a real training camp to get back on track. I have very little doubt that he'll return as good as new. He's a hard worker and he cares immensely for the club and his teammates. He's been our best regular contributor for a long time now, there's very little reason to doubt it moving forward, wonky definitions of "elite" aside. I agree that there is very little doubt at who our #1 guy is.
I was thinking about it. It seems like ever since Sutter said he was the "best player he's ever coached" his play was starting to decline. It's almost as if Sutter had a crystal ball and thought this might happen.

Really, if you asked different players and coaches around the NHL if Kopitar would be considered "elite" I think most of them would scoff at the question. Without a doubt he is an elite player.

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06-15-2013, 03:24 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
Telos, never ever did I say Kopitars best days are behind him.....maybe you got that from someone else, not me.
You defined this "debate" as being about whether or not his eliteness was short-lived. No matter where you take that argument, you'll be blindly throwing darts at a dartboard if you are going to debate that his eliteness exists, is in tact, or vanished based on a couple of down months after what he's accomplished and given the circumstances of this past season. It is a pointless endeavor, and you're the one manning the drum over this being thready-worthy and playing the role of devil's advocate.

That's not a bad thing, all discussions need sources of invigoration, but this one has no where to stand. Gann's article, and this whole thread, is an opinion piece based on impulsive feelings with no real tangible evidence to cite other than he disappeared for a dozen games which gives little basis to prophecize any aspect of his future other than to express disappointment and concern for his upcoming season without definitive statements. I agree with the sentiments, but disagree with any statements to be made about his future without seeing him in camp and playing next season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Kings Drummer View Post
I was thinking about it. It seems like ever since Sutter said he was the "best player he's ever coached" his play was starting to decline. It's almost as if Sutter had a crystal ball and thought this might happen.

Really, if you asked different players and coaches around the NHL if Kopitar would be considered "elite" I think most of them would scoff at the question. Without a doubt he is an elite player.
Perhaps, it is a valid thing to think about, and you are likely right after others around the league.

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06-15-2013, 03:56 PM
  #86
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I didn't like the title of the article so I didn't 'read it. Kopitar is about to turn 26 and far from being to the point where somebody (the author) determines he's 'not elite'. Maybe it's as simple as what Kopitar himself said, that he had a cold streak that went from bad to worse, the harder he tried to get thru it the worse it got. I was glad that he didn't need surgery. That would mean extended rehab and this way he'll be 100% for camp.

What we know is that he's got size, speed and skill and has been a consistent point producing forward who is exceptional in his own zone. And having Richards and Carter behind him has taken some pressure off of him. Going forward, healthy, with full training camp, he'll be fine.

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06-15-2013, 04:58 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Kings Drummer View Post
I was thinking about it. It seems like ever since Sutter said he was the "best player he's ever coached" his play was starting to decline. It's almost as if Sutter had a crystal ball and thought this might happen.

Really, if you asked different players and coaches around the NHL if Kopitar would be considered "elite" I think most of them would scoff at the question. Without a doubt he is an elite player.
In general, I think when doing interviews, players overrate other players all the time.

The grading curve may be broken though, maybe elite doesn't mean the same thing as it used to mean.

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06-15-2013, 05:13 PM
  #88
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I seriously dont think he has a 100 point season in him, or near that. He showed that during the lockout when he could'nt dominate the swedish second division until Bobby Ryan came there to help him. You need to find peace about that.

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06-15-2013, 05:18 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
I seriously dont think he has a 100 point season in him, or near that. He showed that during the lockout when he could'nt dominate the swedish second division until Bobby Ryan came there to help him. You need to find peace about that.
How many centers even get to 100 points? Look over the past few years, that list is very small. As is finding a center that can get you 70-80+ points.

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06-15-2013, 05:27 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
In general, I think when doing interviews, players overrate other players all the time.

The grading curve may be broken though, maybe elite doesn't mean the same thing as it used to mean.
I have a feeling the answer would be the same behind closed doors. The guy is a professional in every sense of the word but I'm starting to think the term "elite" is vague (just semantics at this point). If you are talking pure points and goal scoring I probably wouldn't throw him near the top of the heap but if we consider his defensive play, ethic, and attitude it'd be hard to find too many better players.

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06-15-2013, 05:34 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
I seriously dont think he has a 100 point season in him, or near that. He showed that during the lockout when he could'nt dominate the swedish second division until Bobby Ryan came there to help him. You need to find peace about that.
If you were watching the games you could clearly see that that was not his mission. He was doing his absolut best to setup his brother and the dominance he showed in his first game was the only one (to me it looked like) as he just knew it was to much and after that he held it to a lower level of dominance.

He was not shooting much and made some ridicolous plays his teammates just were not expecting time after time.

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06-15-2013, 06:11 PM
  #92
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So Gaspar ruined Kopitar lol? Nice plot twist. M. Night would be proud.

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06-15-2013, 10:57 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
Obviously, Kopitar has always been considered a good player, but I don't believe he turned the corner to 'elite' status until the playoff performance of 2012.

That's the debate.....that it was short-lived.
I'm convinced the argument is being skewed every post. I can't debate a moving argument.

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06-16-2013, 12:19 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
I'm convinced the argument is being skewed every post. I can't debate a moving argument.
You already said that you weren't even going to read the article, so why are you even commenting in this thread? You're almost as bad as Telos, making up things I wrote to put their argument in a better light.....beat it. Go take some more pictures of yourself cause you're hawt.

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06-16-2013, 12:31 AM
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If you are interested, here is video of Kopitar return to Slovenia. It wasn't said anything special, maybe just that he'll start with preparations for next season at the beggining of July.

But you can see at the end of video Kopitar playing football without bracelet.

http://www.sport-tv.si/d176999/Sport...l_za_zogo.html

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06-16-2013, 12:50 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
So Gaspar ruined Kopitar lol? Nice plot twist. M. Night would be proud.
lmao

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06-16-2013, 01:49 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
So Gaspar ruined Kopitar lol? Nice plot twist. M. Night would be proud.
I was talking about Kopis play in Sweden exclusively, no twist no bull. What I wrote was what happened so don't come here and try to be some smartass. I watched a lot of those games and he had several chances to shoot or take advantage of bad defending but he rather made a pass to his brother.

If you want to ridicoul me because my wording or spelling is not to high standards fine but that is not an reflection of my IQ so you can give that **** up immiedately.

You can ask anyone who watched those games and tell me I'm wrong but I think you will be surprised.

How he played in Sweden had nothing to do with how he played in NHL except for the injury.

Some times posters can missinterpret what others write so if you think I missed something you are more then welcome to explain yourself and I know you didn't mention NHL but the way you wrote it....??

And who the **** is M Night. tv-show? You were just trying to be funny on my behalf. Cheap-shot. Dame it I actually expect an apology I'm pissed as hell. You did not ask me or tried to discuss why I thought that way about Kopi's play you just jumped me.


Last edited by alpa: 06-16-2013 at 01:57 AM.
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06-16-2013, 02:30 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by alpa View Post
I was talking about Kopis play in Sweden exclusively, no twist no bull. What I wrote was what happened so don't come here and try to be some smartass. I watched a lot of those games and he had several chances to shoot or take advantage of bad defending but he rather made a pass to his brother.

If you want to ridicoul me because my wording or spelling is not to high standards fine but that is not an reflection of my IQ so you can give that **** up immiedately.

You can ask anyone who watched those games and tell me I'm wrong but I think you will be surprised.

How he played in Sweden had nothing to do with how he played in NHL except for the injury.

Some times posters can missinterpret what others write so if you think I missed something you are more then welcome to explain yourself and I know you didn't mention NHL but the way you wrote it....??

And who the **** is M Night. tv-show? You were just trying to be funny on my behalf. Cheap-shot. Dame it I actually expect an apology I'm pissed as hell. You did not ask me or tried to discuss why I thought that way about Kopi's play you just jumped me.

Woah what happened? Lol I wasn't trying to offend you, I just thought it would be funny if his brother ruined his season. I believe what you said. I just thought it'd be a funny way of looking at it. I'm sorry you took it the wrong way, I wasn't saying that to offend you, rather a funny way to look at it you know? Out of all the possibilities that people came up with for his poor performance but it turns into his brothers fault. I wasn't making fun of your assessment.

I wasn't calling you M. Night it just sounded like a plot twist, it wasn't his knee, it was his brother kind of thing. I wasn't jumping you at all, I just thought it would be funny if it turned out to be his brother. It's nothing against you man .

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06-16-2013, 04:47 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
You already said that you weren't even going to read the article, so why are you even commenting in this thread? You're almost as bad as Telos, making up things I wrote to put their argument in a better light.....beat it. Go take some more pictures of yourself cause you're hawt.
I refuse to click on the link because I believe it's title is fishing for attention. That doesn't mean that I can't take part in the topic. I have now made four posts in response to your thoughts and in none of them have I made anything up. I've quoted you each time and even posed questions to draw out your thoughts to get a better understanding.

If you feel beaten by the many posters who have politely and intelligently debated you throughout this thread you should just stop posting instead to using verbal violence as a last resort.

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06-16-2013, 09:22 PM
  #100
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I refuse to click on the link because I believe it's title is fishing for attention. That doesn't mean that I can't take part in the topic. I have now made four posts in response to your thoughts and in none of them have I made anything up. I've quoted you each time and even posed questions to draw out your thoughts to get a better understanding.

If you feel beaten by the many posters who have politely and intelligently debated you throughout this thread you should just stop posting instead to using verbal violence as a last resort.
Verbal violence.......that is awesome.

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