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VAN signs UFA SEL G Joacim Eriksson ('08 PHI draft pick)

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Old
06-16-2013, 05:16 AM
  #76
jigsaw99
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I feel for the flyers fans

Holmgren gets Bryzgalov
Trades Vezina Nom Bob
gets Mason
Losses Eriksson
Make that Vezina WINNER

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=674120&print=true

Undrafted goalie wins Vezina

At least the Flyers did use the 2nd round pick they got from CBJ to draft Anthony Stolarz. 6"6 giant goalie and Knights starter for their Memorial Cup run.


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06-16-2013, 05:16 AM
  #77
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And this is why I'm not particularly a fan of drafting goalies somewhat early on (3rd is still early to me). It looks like Eriksson could be even better than Honzik who we just let go of.

Liking what I've heard/read about him so far.
Why? Both of our goalies are first rounders. I think that you gotta trust your scouts if they recommend a goalie.

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06-16-2013, 05:54 AM
  #78
vanuck
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Why? Both of our goalies are first rounders. I think that you gotta trust your scouts if they recommend a goalie.
Schneider did take a while to establish himself as an NHL goalie though. Goalie development is often so unpredictable (just see Eriksson's own background with the Flyers in that Hockeybuzz post) and take so long to develop that you're probably better off leaning towards skaters in general - forwards more so, as they start contributing earlier.

It took Eriksson 5 years for him to finally generate enough interest to get contract offers - and we picked him up for free. You just have a better idea of where they're at when they're older. Similar to the thinking behind college picks.

Also, when you already have Lack and Cannata in the system I just don't feel it's worth it. Though if it was in the late rounds it probably wouldn't be a big deal.

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06-16-2013, 07:56 AM
  #79
Tiranis
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
Schneider did take a while to establish himself as an NHL goalie though. Goalie development is often so unpredictable (just see Eriksson's own background with the Flyers in that Hockeybuzz post) and take so long to develop that you're probably better off leaning towards skaters in general - forwards more so, as they start contributing earlier.

It took Eriksson 5 years for him to finally generate enough interest to get contract offers - and we picked him up for free. You just have a better idea of where they're at when they're older. Similar to the thinking behind college picks.

Also, when you already have Lack and Cannata in the system I just don't feel it's worth it. Though if it was in the late rounds it probably wouldn't be a big deal.
There's some benefits to drafting a goalie, especially if your scouts feel strongly about that particular one. The fact that it takes them some time could be considered a benefit on a team like the Canucks — a goalie we draft now, might be ready just as Schneider is on a decline.

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06-16-2013, 09:10 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
There's some benefits to drafting a goalie, especially if your scouts feel strongly about that particular one. The fact that it takes them some time could be considered a benefit on a team like the Canucks a goalie we draft now, might be ready just as Schneider is on a decline.
When Canucks drafted Hoznik in 3rd round they were extremely high on this kid - but he has had difficulty ever seen which is why, obviously, they did not sign him by deadline - and helped make signing Eriksson easier depth wise.

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06-16-2013, 01:36 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
There's some benefits to drafting a goalie, especially if your scouts feel strongly about that particular one. The fact that it takes them some time could be considered a benefit on a team like the Canucks a goalie we draft now, might be ready just as Schneider is on a decline.
Yeah, there's nothing inherently wrong with picking goalies in the earlier rounds...you just have to trust your scouting on them (and have scouting worth trusting), and acknowledge that it's likely going to be a bit longer of a process than a forward might be. But while that process is moving along, if handled properly, you can keep these guys under contract at a very reasonable rate and move quality goaltenders into the NHL ranks as backups rather than paying the same or more, for a very limited veteran backup with no real upside. And there's always the option of moving these goaltenders who develop well for help elsewhere.

Just look at some of the top goalies around the league and while you see a sprinkling of undrafted or late round guys, you also see a healthy dose of fairly high picks. Rask was a 1st round and Crawford a 2nd rounder for example. Both our 'stud goaltenders' were 1st rounders, the Kings have a guy in Bernier who was a 1st rounder and will likely command a pretty decent return on the trade market this summer after providing them some great backup goaltending insurance in the meantime. Even a guy like John Gibson was a high 2nd rounder a couple years ago, and i certainly wouldn't be loathe to have a prospect of that calibre in the pipeline at this point, even at a position of strength here.

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When Canucks drafted Hoznik in 3rd round they were extremely high on this kid - but he has had difficulty ever seen which is why, obviously, they did not sign him by deadline - and helped make signing Eriksson easier depth wise.
The thing with the Honzik pick for me, was that it was very much a sort of 'arrogant' pick. That is, it seemed from the get-go that he was selected based on his size and physical tools, rather than his true aptitude and ability as a goaltender. It was as though Gillis, the Scouts and co. were of the mind that they could 'build a better goalie' essentially from scratch. The hockey equivalent of an Al Davis 'Heigh/Weight/Speed' pick for the Raiders in the NFL. And once you start talking about those 'measurables' picks that early in the draft at any position, i think you're going to run into some troubles.

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06-16-2013, 02:03 PM
  #82
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The thing with the Honzik pick for me, was that it was very much a sort of 'arrogant' pick. That is, it seemed from the get-go that he was selected based on his size and physical tools, rather than his true aptitude and ability as a goaltender. It was as though Gillis, the Scouts and co. were of the mind that they could 'build a better goalie' essentially from scratch. The hockey equivalent of an Al Davis 'Heigh/Weight/Speed' pick for the Raiders in the NFL. And once you start talking about those 'measurables' picks that early in the draft at any position, i think you're going to run into some troubles.
I don't know. Honzik was widely considered the 3rd best goalie in that draft. Especially after the playoffs he had. The top two goalies were the two Gibsons. Christopher Gibson didn't get signed by the LA Kings either and he seemed to have all the tools.

And I was fooled by Christopher Gibson too. At the time I was sure he was going to be a star with some more development. He seemed to just have everything: athleticism, compete level, work ethic, skill, etc. Even mentally he seemed to be the perfect goaltender. Posted ridiculous stats too.

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06-16-2013, 02:12 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I don't know. Honzik was widely considered the 3rd best goalie in that draft. Especially after the playoffs he had. The top two goalies were the two Gibsons. Christopher Gibson didn't get signed by the LA Kings either and he seemed to have all the tools.

And I was fooled by Christopher Gibson too. At the time I was sure he was going to be a star with some more development. He seemed to just have everything: athleticism, compete level, work ethic, skill, etc. Even mentally he seemed to be the perfect goaltender. Posted ridiculous stats too.
Probably a good reason why I personally would never use a 1st round pick on a goalie (and I say that realizing we got Schneider that way).

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06-16-2013, 02:17 PM
  #84
Tiranis
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Probably a good reason why I personally would never use a 1st round pick on a goalie (and I say that realizing we got Schneider that way).
Certainly the worst recent blunder has to be drafting Jack Campbell 11th overall. Oh Joe... such a good GM.

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06-16-2013, 02:47 PM
  #85
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Probably a good reason why I personally would never use a 1st round pick on a goalie (and I say that realizing we got Schneider that way).
There's certainly always a great deal of risk attached to drafting goaltenders that high. And there are always going to be guys like the Chris Gibsons, Chet Pickards, etc. who look good but don't really pan out. But then, i liked John Gibson a lot more than Chris anyway...and while i'm certainly not batting 100% on that kind of thing and no scouts are, that's essentially what it comes down to. It comes down to being right on the goaltending prospects...something that's true of any position. There's busts and disappointments all over the place at other positions too. I don't see goaltending as a particularly special position in that regard...it just may be that the boom/bust factor is inherently a bit higher with goaltenders, more in line with a comparable 'boom/bust' forward prospect for example.

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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Certainly the worst recent blunder has to be drafting Jack Campbell 11th overall. Oh Joe... such a good GM.
It's hard to say that wasn't too high to grab Campbell for sure, he's had a rollercoaster ride and a half since being drafted, and Joe had a pretty sad run as a GM in general...but i wouldn't give up on Campbell just yet. I think he still has the potential to be a very very good NHL goaltender...it may just be that he'll have to take the long road. I still like the ability there...he just needs a lot of refinement, and may take a more 'Schneider type' path to the NHL, putting in more hours refining technical aspects, etc. Whether that pick will end up being 'worth it' or not...? Who knows. But if you can get a starting NHL goaltender out of that pick eventually...i'd call it a win.

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06-16-2013, 03:38 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Probably a good reason why I personally would never use a 1st round pick on a goalie (and I say that realizing we got Schneider that way).
Remember Brent Krahn (CGY)? I was fooled too and drafted him high in an FHL league. Regrettably.

Trevor Kidd over Martin Brodeur all those years ago too just prove that goalies are all works in progress most of the time.

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06-16-2013, 04:16 PM
  #87
vanuck
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
There's some benefits to drafting a goalie, especially if your scouts feel strongly about that particular one. The fact that it takes them some time could be considered a benefit on a team like the Canucks a goalie we draft now, might be ready just as Schneider is on a decline.
Yeah, I don't doubt there are - for example long-term projects if you really like their upside.

In that case it seems to run counter to what they were thinking at the time if they gave up on Honzik. Feels like a waste to not follow up on him as a draft choice. Especially when you knew he was a project to begin with. The (relative) lack of picks we've had kind of exacerbates it too.

And, there's also the part of me that just wants to see more talented forwards in the system.

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06-16-2013, 04:28 PM
  #88
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The thing I really like about this move is I was scared for our goalie depth with Luongo on the move and Lack injured. This is great insurance. We really need a guy like this in the system.

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06-16-2013, 04:57 PM
  #89
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Watch this guy run Lack out of town after Lack runs Schneider out of town after Schneider signs a 12 year deal.

Is Dan Cloutier actually some NHL team's goalie coach? LOL

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06-16-2013, 05:09 PM
  #90
vanuck
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Watch this guy run Lack out of town after Lack runs Schneider out of town after Schneider signs a 12 year deal.

Is Dan Cloutier actually some NHL team's goalie coach? LOL
You forgot the part where Cannata gets run out of town by him after Cannata runs Lack out of town.

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06-16-2013, 06:06 PM
  #91
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You forgot the part where Cannata gets run out of town by him after Cannata runs Lack out of town.
At the rate they keep improving Cannata would be a lock for 10 straight Vezinas.

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06-16-2013, 06:19 PM
  #92
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I think that drafting goalies that will be attending college is a far safer bet. It gives you 4-5 years to watch them develop. If we see an HS or College goalie worth getting, then I'm fine with using a pick on them (Cannata, Schneider). However, with CHL and European goalies, you only have two years (i.e. when they're 20 and likely still 4-5 years from making any impact).

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06-16-2013, 09:08 PM
  #93
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hmm hmmmmmm
http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=6160

lol

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06-16-2013, 10:56 PM
  #94
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Good. This is a far better route than wasting draft picks.

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06-16-2013, 11:31 PM
  #95
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Is Dan Cloutier actually some NHL team's goalie coach? LOL
Do as I say, not as I do?

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06-16-2013, 11:39 PM
  #96
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I don't even need to click it to know it's the article about how he went back and deleted his Bobrovsky article. Lol my bad.

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06-17-2013, 12:30 AM
  #97
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pfft, you didnt do anything wrong. those 'experts' are insidious

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06-17-2013, 08:34 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
There's some benefits to drafting a goalie, especially if your scouts feel strongly about that particular one. The fact that it takes them some time could be considered a benefit on a team like the Canucks a goalie we draft now, might be ready just as Schneider is on a decline.
To a point, yeah, but they don't seem to return as much in trade as a position player, and the only long-term roster spot for the pick is if he turns into a starter. I also don't think most teams tend to get a lot of cap savings on goaltenders -- once a guy has a good 20 games, he cashes in, especially if you determine he's going to be your starter.

You're right though: if you were really high on a kid, it's not bad. It's just such a spectacular fail when it's wrong though.

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06-17-2013, 09:00 AM
  #99
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Certainly the worst recent blunder has to be drafting Jack Campbell 11th overall. Oh Joe... such a good GM.
I'm not sure whether or not you are being sarcastic.

Jack Campbell is turning out just fine. Should be in the running to be back up this year. Had a number of great years in OHL and again in AHL.

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06-17-2013, 09:01 AM
  #100
Peter
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The top two goalies were the two Gibsons. Christopher Gibson didn't get signed by the LA Kings either and he seemed to have all the tools.

And I was fooled by Christopher Gibson too. At the time I was sure he was going to be a star with some more development. He seemed to just have everything: athleticism, compete level, work ethic, skill, etc. Even mentally he seemed to be the perfect goaltender. Posted ridiculous stats too.
Man I hear you. Totally thought Christopher Gibson was going to be the best goalie out of the three - LOL

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