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Rangers name Alain Vigneault head coach - Part II

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06-16-2013, 10:34 AM
  #226
kevinsane
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Canucks fan here. I'm glad to see Messier is getting called out for his arrogant belief that he is ready to coach at the NHL level. Free chips and pep talks do not a coach make.
As others have pointed out, if he has a true passion for coaching, he should show it. Elsewhere. Otherwise it suggests his goal is to bump upstairs as soon as he can.
The Rangers are my second favorite team, and I wish you great success with AV.

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06-16-2013, 10:35 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by kevinsane View Post
Canucks fan here. I'm glad to see Messier is getting called out for his arrogant belief that he is ready to coach at the NHL level. Free chips and pep talks do not a coach make.
As others have pointed out, if he has a true passion for coaching, he should show it. Elsewhere. Otherwise it suggests his goal is to bump upstairs as soon as he can.

The Rangers are my second favorite team, and I wish you great success with AV.
This is NY. Crazier things have happened with the hiring of coaches. Glorified poster athletes are hot commodities here.

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06-16-2013, 10:45 AM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
First, congrats on getting the Best coach on the market, was just time for a shake up/change with the Canucks. There has been some good stuff posted on the way AV approaches the game already so I will not add to much, just ignore the haters since AV will prove them wrong...

All ready been said I would say, But AV line juggles like no one else, make of it what you will but as a fan you will need to deal with it

Break outs were broken for the last two seasons I would say, but when they were doing well AV liked a good quick transition and in the 2011 run that transition was as quick as they come

of late when the D gets the puck in there own zone they would pull back and try and get the fore-checker to come up, creating a gap, while sending all three forwards up the ice then they would try and use they space and try connect with the open player. This was fairly well scouted in the west and teams were happy to hang back or send in two for checkers hard so all our D could do was hide behind the net and ring it around the boards for a tip in.

the drop pass was used a lot, I would guess as a way to beat traps, this was also well scouted and I feel teams new it was coming so they would set a trap and have a guy floating for the drop pass, LA sure did in 2012...

when defending in our zone instead of try and clog up the shooting lane and block shots, the canucks were happier to try and keep the puck carrier on the outside, and tie up passing lanes, allowing the puck carrier to have a "free" shot from the bad angle with the goalie seeing it all the way.

offensively I will be interested how he sets up with the rangers next season, with the canucks he had them set up a cycle most of the time, but that has alot to do with having the twins, and also no players that would try and get into the slot. also a lot of the plan for offence I think was to give up a bad shot and try and use speed and quick transition to counter but after 2011 we seemed to try and keep the game tighter (or lost that quick transition for whatever reason) and that dried up our offence I feel.

one last thing, It was no secret that the canucks were a better team when they out hit there opponent, in the 2011 run there was a stat that had our chance of winning increase a lot when we out hit the other team, and often we would outhit them by a wide margin.

Hope that helps and adds something to look out for, just my opinions, others may disagree
Great stuff! (I don't know how many reports that supposedly covers AV but doesn't contain a single tiblit of what kind of coach he really is, just the same BS fans more or less always get stuck up with)

I wanna reserve even preliminary judgement of AV before we can see what he tries to do with a team without the Sedin's on it.

But, the bolded part is something we see alot from Boston and Chicago, and many other successful offensive teams too (Philly alot too for sure to mention one). How they stick the puck to guys finding open ice in the neutralzone between the defending D's and forecheckers. You see some fans compare us to Boston, but that's one extreme diffrence between us and them. How they find Marchand, Krejci, Bergeron and co with stick in passes to that area in the neutralzone. We litterary never made those passes.

And, it will take time to implement. Forget about our D's or forward getting to the level of Boston or Chicago or the other teams that use it after like a camp with AV. Its something you litteray can't work on enough, and the longer a team stays together and you drill these things down, the better you become it. There is no timeframe for it. We have fell behind under TOrts mismanagement and it will take time to catch up.

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06-16-2013, 11:18 AM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Is Brooks trying to undermine Vigneault already with this suggestion?





http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers

Who are we kidding?

Messier is NEXT, so we better HOPE Vigneault works out, cause we all know who's coming next.....



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Who gives a flying **** about being nice to the media? Really? That's a positive? Who cares?
I don't care if he's nice, but respectful to the fans and media would be a welcomed change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Its something you litteray can't work on enough, and the longer a team stays together and you drill these things down, the better you become it. There is no timeframe for it. We have fell behind under TOrts mismanagement and it will take time to catch up.
Agreed, it's gonna take time. This is not exactly the most veteran team.

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06-16-2013, 11:24 AM
  #230
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Good hire, hopefully it benefits guys like Brassard, Kreider, DelZ

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06-16-2013, 11:40 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Kesler was injured the majority of the year; he's a huge part of their PP.

It was 4th, 1st, and 6th in the three years prior, so...
We don't have Kesler either but we do have guys who consistently fail on a massive scale on the PP sooo....

Hopefully Torts held our guys back and AV can get them to produce better

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06-16-2013, 11:44 AM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Is Brooks trying to undermine Vigneault already with this suggestion?





http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers

imo if messier is serious about coaching than that is the no brainer move for him and the organization. i'd rather him than gernander working with the kids...and if you look at the life cycle of most coaching positions the odds are even if things go well the rangers will be looking for another coach in 5 or so years. at which point messier with 5 years under his belt becomes the top choice. if mess continues to sit around doing nothing than when the job comes up again he'll still be equally unqualified.

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06-16-2013, 11:52 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
And those fans are stupid. Rude and clownish? Who gives a ****? He nearly got us to the Cup last year. Those same people were *****ing about that garbage last year. I cannot believe being nice to the media means anything to some on here. It's absurd.
i could careless how he talks to the media and more often than not i was nodding in agreement with him cause the questions being asked were fing stupid

BUT i'm going to go out on a limb and say that the reason why the players wanted him gone and 'quit' on him is atleast partly due to the fact that he's a giant dbag at times. i was a fan of torts but the players grew tired of his crap. so someone delivering a similar game plan in a nicer way that the players are more receptive to is a big deal

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06-16-2013, 12:05 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
Is AV a more puck possession coach ?
Yes he is.

He gets his defensemen to pinch in along the boards offensively to sustain pressure. During the beginning of the season the forward who's job is to cover the pinching D's point is often late. This is a big reason why the Canucks have bad starts to the season. Once the forwards learn how agressive the D are the Rangers will become a very good possession team.

The above only happens when the forwards are talented enough to maintain a cycle. When the Canucks roster had little offensive players it was much safer hockey. Go past center ice and dump it in. 1-2-2 forecheck.

There was a meme during AVs earlier days about how AV would try and protect the 0-0 tie. In all seriousness if AV is leading after 2 periods its a guaranteed 2 points.

RE: breakouts. AV's system dictates that an outlet pass is the fastest zone exit. Some western teams employ a heavy forecheck which causes our retrieving dman to take a hit to make a play. Against bigger teams this usually causes injuries. Examples being Getzlaf on Hamhuis, multiple hits on Tanev, Salo being destroyed by half our conference. Dmen who can make a "bump back" hit get good highlights out of his system.

AV has a severe dislike for dmen skating the puck up. That's a large reason why Ballard was ineffective.

A lot of times against a heavy forecheck you'll see the first D take a hit and ring it behind the boards. The 2nd dman with proper forward support can make a nice outlet if he is a skilled puckmover. This quick transition kills teams and was something Ehrhoff was good at. Otherwise it's a chip off the boards which will make it a puck battle for forwards (Boston loves this).

AV's defensive system also stresses gap control. He doesn't really allow everyone to sag in but on the backcheck he needs his defensmen to maintain a certain amount of space. This also helped us clean up Luongo's atrocious rebound control when he first came over.

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06-16-2013, 12:05 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Jackpot View Post
Yeah, Probably has nothing to do with players.. The guy wins, if You're saying he get's outcoached on a regular basis because Vancouver isn't lining the wall with Cup's, I guess all the coaches are bums in the NHL
Wait what we literally just saw torts get outcoached for years despite winning.

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06-16-2013, 12:15 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
There was a meme during AVs earlier days about how AV would try and protect the 0-0 tie.


I suspect this will carry over here.

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Old
06-16-2013, 12:55 PM
  #237
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Congrats to Sather, frankly I never thought I would say that he made an excellent move. I think AV is a perfect fit in NYC, it will be like a breeze of fresh air after Tortorella.

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06-16-2013, 12:56 PM
  #238
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Brassards going to explode under this guy.

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Old
06-16-2013, 01:03 PM
  #239
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Is AV to NYR a good fit? You guys know your team better than I do so you be the judge:

-AV plays favourites, a lot.
-Loves size/grit more than skill.
-Unless you're an elite skilled forward (like Sedins), you've go to be a grinder pretty much to get ice time under AV.
-Sits back on leads
-Rarely uses his timeout
-Doesn't motivate players, believe they have to be self motivated. (Seems to have created a really strong bond/core in Vancouver's locker room, but seems like they didn't believe in him anymore)
-Line juggles a lot
-Benches a young player for one giveaway, even if he's having a stellar game
-Hard for a young guy to even get in the lineup/move up which usually leads to low confidence and player starting to bust
-I believe he had a big part in Coho/Grabner being traded. Didn't want one dimensional players.

If AV goes 06-07 mode, Rangers will be so elite. His defensive trap is legendary, but the offense will be brutal and boring.

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06-16-2013, 01:06 PM
  #240
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Just wanted to make an observation about our new coach.



AV looks like:



Dmitry Medvedev

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06-16-2013, 01:11 PM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
Is AV to NYR a good fit? You guys know your team better than I do so you be the judge:

-AV plays favourites, a lot.
-Loves size/grit more than skill.
-Unless you're an elite skilled forward (like Sedins), you've go to be a grinder pretty much to get ice time under AV.
-Sits back on leads
-Rarely uses his timeout
-Doesn't motivate players, believe they have to be self motivated. (Seems to have created a really strong bond/core in Vancouver's locker room, but seems like they didn't believe in him anymore)
-Line juggles a lot
-Benches a young player for one giveaway, even if he's having a stellar game
-Hard for a young guy to even get in the lineup/move up which usually leads to low confidence and player starting to bust
-I believe he had a big part in Coho/Grabner being traded. Didn't want one dimensional players.

If AV goes 06-07 mode, Rangers will be so elite. His defensive trap is legendary, but the offense will be brutal and boring.
Sounds like a good fit, because it sounds like...literally exactly like Tortorella.

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06-16-2013, 01:11 PM
  #242
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I think you guys are going to enjoy AV. He doesn't mind answering questions on the podium and is often cheerful.

As for his systems, it is hard to predict what he is going to do. It is true that he seemed to have a safety-first mentality (5 on 5 the Canucks always went for the cross corner dump in) but that's not necessarily bad coaching, and the Canucks have been at or near the top of offence for two of the last three years.

Then, too, AV had a unique relationship with the team. Before he took over the Canucks, he coached their AHL farm team, and brought along a number of the guys that way. He knew them pretty well and vice versa, which is not going to be the case with the Rangers, for better or for worse.

Good luck AV and the Rangers!


Last edited by JeffMangum: 06-16-2013 at 01:15 PM. Reason: We're not the Rags.
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06-16-2013, 01:14 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Sweet Gerald View Post
Sounds like a good fit, because it sounds like...literally exactly like Tortorella.
Almost a complete 360 in the press interviews, though.

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06-16-2013, 01:14 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
AV's defensive system also stresses gap control. He doesn't really allow everyone to sag in but on the backcheck he needs his defensmen to maintain a certain amount of space. This also helped us clean up Luongo's atrocious rebound control when he first came over.
That sounds good, because as amazing as Lundqvist is, his rebound control is still a little spotty. It's much better than it was a few years ago, but he still gives up some WTF rebounds.

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06-16-2013, 01:15 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Sweet Gerald View Post
Sounds like a good fit, because it sounds like...literally exactly like Tortorella.
yeah sounds exactly like tortorella except less demanding and more of a player's coach

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06-16-2013, 01:16 PM
  #246
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If you take the time to read the Canucks Army breakdown of AV, he doesn't sound like Tortorella at all. That is the most informed thing on AV out there right now.

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06-16-2013, 01:17 PM
  #247
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Kinda sucks that I went from not wanting AV to being relieved we got him solely because the other options being explored were so ridiculous.

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06-16-2013, 01:20 PM
  #248
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Let's be honest, here.... we got a crappier version of Tortorella. They are both very similar, only 1 has a cup.

AV couldn't get it done with better players.

I don't like the hire at all, but I'm hoping for the best.

Again, we STILL don't have the forwards to compete for a cup. I really hope we can get Clowe to sign a reasonable deal (3 years max at 4 per) because he's the kinda guy this team needs. Assuming Richards IS NOT bought out, I forsee something like this.

Hagelin Stepan Nash

Clowe Brassard Zucc

Kreider Richards Callahan

Asham Miller Dorsett

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06-16-2013, 01:22 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
Let's be honest, here.... we got a crappier version of Tortorella. They are both very similar, only 1 has a cup.

AV couldn't get it done with better players.

I don't like the hire at all, but I'm hoping for the best.

Again, we STILL don't have the forwards to compete for a cup. I really hope we can get Clowe to sign a reasonable deal (3 years max at 4 per) because he's the kinda guy this team needs.

Hagelin Stepan Nash

Clowe Brassard Zucc

Kreider Richards Callahan

Asham Miller Dorsett
NYR seems like a better fit for AV than Vancouver. Better grinders/size/grit. Vancouver is a soft regular season team.

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Old
06-16-2013, 01:23 PM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
If you take the time to read the Canucks Army breakdown of AV, he doesn't sound like Tortorella at all. That is the most informed thing on AV out there right now.
So many "edgy" people will make it a thing to not read it and hold their thoughts which is fine, but just read it if anyone has a chance. It's revealing and educated

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