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Rangers name Alain Vigneault head coach - Part II

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Old
06-16-2013, 12:24 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Kinda sucks that I went from not wanting AV to being relieved we got him solely because the other options being explored were so ridiculous.
I'd almost rather have the unknown in Messier or Stevens over AV.

I firmly believe this team is now worse off with AV.

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06-16-2013, 12:26 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
NYR seems like a better fit for AV than Vancouver. Better grinders/size/grit. Vancouver is a soft regular season team.
That's nice... please tell me exactly how our offense is going to improve under him?

We don't have any weird looking twins on this team who are very good at hockey.

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06-16-2013, 12:27 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
I'd almost rather have the unknown in Messier or Stevens over AV.

I firmly believe this team is now worse off with AV.
I honestly believe if AV goes back to his 06-07 system, the Rangers will be so elite, lol. A lot of point production drops, though. Some more Vezinas for Lundqvist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
That's nice... please tell me exactly how our offense is going to improve under him?

We don't have any weird looking twins on this team who are very good at hockey.
Our Stanley cup run team lived and died by the PP. AV did not run the PP.

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06-16-2013, 12:27 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
NYR seems like a better fit for AV than Vancouver. Better grinders/size/grit. Vancouver is a soft regular season team.
I like Van. Exciting to watch. I hope AV makes some line adjustments that make sense/let them play. Also ability to use all lines and not just 2

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06-16-2013, 12:32 PM
  #255
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Not happy with AV. Sounds very similar to Tortorella. I was hoping for a coach that would open up the offense more, and a coach who has a little more patience with our young guys. I'll stay optimistic, but Rangers could very well be worse off now.

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06-16-2013, 12:32 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
I like Van. Exciting to watch. I hope AV makes some line adjustments that make sense/let them play. Also ability to use all lines and not just 2
Really? Watching Vancouver play the last two seasons was so frustrating, even in the regular season. Watching them win games was so frustrating, too. Team lived off of goaltending. So obvious they didn't believe in themselves.

Sedins drop off so tragic.

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06-16-2013, 12:34 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
Really? Watching Vancouver play the last two seasons was so frustrating, even in the regular season. Watching them win games was so frustrating, too. Team lived off of goaltending. So obvious they didn't believe in themselves.

Sedins drop off so tragic.
Replace Vancouver with New York, and Sedins with Gaborik and Richards and you pretty much summed up the entire Rangers season.

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06-16-2013, 12:38 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by LittleKev6D9 View Post
Replace Vancouver with New York, and Sedins with Gaborik and Richards and you pretty much summed up the entire Rangers season.
Should still fair better than with Vancouver. Lundqvist >>>. Schneider and Luongo have had their meltdowns.

That's why I wanted AV gone so bad, he's publicly said he's not really a players coach. He doesn't create strong relationships with his players and believes players need to be self motivated. He lets the locker room take over.

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06-16-2013, 12:39 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
If you take the time to read the Canucks Army breakdown of AV, he doesn't sound like Tortorella at all. That is the most informed thing on AV out there right now.
Link please?

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06-16-2013, 12:39 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
Let's be honest, here.... we got a crappier version of Tortorella. They are both very similar, only 1 has a cup.

AV couldn't get it done with better players.

I don't like the hire at all, but I'm hoping for the best.

Again, we STILL don't have the forwards to compete for a cup. I really hope we can get Clowe to sign a reasonable deal (3 years max at 4 per) because he's the kinda guy this team needs. Assuming Richards IS NOT bought out, I forsee something like this.

Hagelin Stepan Nash

Clowe Brassard Zucc

Kreider Richards Callahan

Asham Miller Dorsett
Not for this team. As I said earlier, he's Tortorella with a clue when it comes to offense and PP. But doesn't ignore defense. I'll take it.

The only problem I had with Tortorella's coaching is that dumb defense first system, block shots, collapse etc...
If he was willing to open it up (which does not sound like the case) and if the players didn't dislike him, I would have kept him.

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06-16-2013, 12:42 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Not for this team. As I said earlier, he's Tortorella with a clue when it comes to offense and PP. But doesn't ignore defense. I'll take it.

The only problem I had with Tortorella's coaching is that dumb defense first system, block shots, collapse etc...
If he was willing to open it up (which does not sound like the case) and if the players didn't dislike him, I would have kept him.
PP was not run by AV. It was run by Newell Brown. The 10-11 season was fantastic, pretty much scored at will. Teams figured it out and Vancouver didn't change up. PP became so brutal and getting a PP was actually worse than 5 on 5. Drop pass is so frustrating. Also frustrating that Jason Garrison got limited icetime/removed from PP1 easy, even though he was our weapon.

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06-16-2013, 12:43 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
Link please?
http://canucksarmy.com/2013/3/11/the...lain-vigneault

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06-16-2013, 12:46 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Everybody should read this, it's smart in depth summary of AV

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06-16-2013, 12:49 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Quote:
The list of players who've come up and become quality NHLers under Alain Vigneault's tutelage includes: Ryan Kesler, Alex Burrows, Jannik Hansen, Mason Raymond, Alex Edler, Kevin Bieksa and Cory Schneider.
Didn't like this part. Schneider? That wasn't AV, lol.

Raymond BLOWS. Reason why 90% of Vancouver wants him out.

Hansen? Well, yeah, GRINDER! He's going to get ice-time.

Kesler is a glorified grinder. Burrows, too.

The article does not mention Mats Sundin once. Sundin was the one who created Sedins and Kesler, not AV. He did so much for them. Kesler playing under Sundin's wing was the greatest thing to ever happen. Sundin's leadership is incredible.

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06-16-2013, 01:25 PM
  #265
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Thanks BB, you da best.

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06-16-2013, 01:31 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
I'd almost rather have the unknown in Messier or Stevens over AV.

I firmly believe this team is now worse off with AV.
If you wanted Messier over ANY other coach that was available it's you simply thinking with your heart and not your head. Messier's biggest qualifications were what he did as a player. Tell me how it makes sense to hire someone based on that, especially when there were other infinitely more qualified candidates with actual NHL coaching experience.

I am not anti-Messier in any way. I love him as much as any Rangers fan, but we don't have time for him to learn on the job. Let him get some coaching experience under his belt, prove himself, and if he has anything even close to the most qualified candidate the next time he gets interviewed for the head coaching position when it becomes vacant I can assure you he will be hired.

"No" now does not mean "No forever".

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06-16-2013, 01:35 PM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
If you wanted Messier over ANY other coach that was available it's you simply thinking with your heart and not your head. Messier's biggest qualifications were what he did as a player. Tell me how it makes sense to hire someone based on that, especially when there were other infinitely more qualified candidates with actual NHL coaching experience.

I am not anti-Messier in any way. I love him as much as any Rangers fan, but we don't have time for him to learn on the job. Let him get some coaching experience under his belt, prove himself, and if he has anything even close to the most qualified candidate the next time he gets interviewed for the head coaching position when it becomes vacant I can assure you he will be hired.

"No" now does not mean "No forever".
in your mind if Messier were to be hired as an assistant with vigneault and vigneault lasted say 4 seasons, would that qualify Messier enough to take over as the head coach? I'm just curious of your opinion and others.

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06-16-2013, 01:45 PM
  #268
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honestly would rather mess over AV and i think mess working out would be nothing more than a really really really good pipe dream... i think we'd end up hating mess, but i want zero to do with av. this is a bummer

edit: OT; is this avatar still nesc since they didn't get eliminated?

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06-16-2013, 01:57 PM
  #269
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Not sure how I feel about this just yet ... I will hold off my opinion until at least a 1/4 into the season ... even then there will be some other factors.

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06-16-2013, 02:00 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Yes he is.

He gets his defensemen to pinch in along the boards offensively to sustain pressure. During the beginning of the season the forward who's job is to cover the pinching D's point is often late. This is a big reason why the Canucks have bad starts to the season. Once the forwards learn how aggressive the D are the Rangers will become a very good possession team.

The above only happens when the forwards are talented enough to maintain a cycle. When the Canucks roster had little offensive players it was much safer hockey. Go past center ice and dump it in. 1-2-2 forecheck.

There was a meme during AVs earlier days about how AV would try and protect the 0-0 tie. In all seriousness if AV is leading after 2 periods its a guaranteed 2 points.

RE: breakouts. AV's system dictates that an outlet pass is the fastest zone exit. Some western teams employ a heavy forecheck which causes our retrieving dman to take a hit to make a play. Against bigger teams this usually causes injuries. Examples being Getzlaf on Hamhuis, multiple hits on Tanev, Salo being destroyed by half our conference. Dmen who can make a "bump back" hit get good highlights out of his system.

AV has a severe dislike for dmen skating the puck up. That's a large reason why Ballard was ineffective.

A lot of times against a heavy forecheck you'll see the first D take a hit and ring it behind the boards. The 2nd dman with proper forward support can make a nice outlet if he is a skilled puckmover. This quick transition kills teams and was something Ehrhoff was good at. Otherwise it's a chip off the boards which will make it a puck battle for forwards (Boston loves this).

AV's defensive system also stresses gap control. He doesn't really allow everyone to sag in but on the backcheck he needs his defensmen to maintain a certain amount of space. This also helped us clean up Luongo's atrocious rebound control when he first came over.
This makes me smile a little.

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06-16-2013, 02:02 PM
  #271
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Who gives a flying **** about being nice to the media? Really? That's a positive? Who cares?
Yeah I couldn't care one bit about that. All I ask is the coach has the respect of his team and to give 100% every game, employs an aggressive creative system that emphasizes puck control and brings something to the table on the PP.

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06-16-2013, 02:05 PM
  #272
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Ranger fans would have whined no matter who we got. Detroit could have fired Babock, and we got him, and some would still complain lol. Its just the Ranger fan way ,it seems we've grown up just to complain about everything that happens to the team.

He was clearly the best coach available, he's gotten alot out of his young players, he loves defense but he also opens up the offense (something Torts did not do). We shouldnt have to see all of our players dive to block shots every shift now. Also, yes he had the Sedins, but prior to last yr Van was 6th, 4th, and 1st (24.3%) on pp

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06-16-2013, 02:06 PM
  #273
Christina Woloski
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Or hold onto DZ and see what he can do when a coach removes the chains from him...

Also, you guys know AV's power play was **** last year too? Isn't that one of this boards biggest complaints??
AV didnt even run the PP

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06-16-2013, 02:11 PM
  #274
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For the people who are saying we are now worse off, can you explain why you believe this? At worst, AV is Torts with a more offensive style, so even if we get a little more offense, how exactly are we worse off with AV?

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06-16-2013, 02:11 PM
  #275
Christina Woloski
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Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
Didn't like this part. Schneider? That wasn't AV, lol.

Raymond BLOWS. Reason why 90% of Vancouver wants him out.

Hansen? Well, yeah, GRINDER! He's going to get ice-time.

Kesler is a glorified grinder. Burrows, too.

The article does not mention Mats Sundin once. Sundin was the one who created Sedins and Kesler, not AV. He did so much for them. Kesler playing under Sundin's wing was the greatest thing to ever happen. Sundin's leadership is incredible.


Wow... this is so amazingly wrong. Everything. A selke winner is not a 'glorified grinder'... Sundin did virtually nothing.

This is embarassing -- sorry NY. Move along, nothing to see here.

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