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06-16-2013, 01:21 PM
  #26
TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
Bouma was playing top 6 when he got hurt and Nemisz moved into the top 6 once his game picked up. Same goes for Reinhart.

Every player that deserved ice time got it. As a result Kolanos was a healthy scratch quite often because he looked disinterested, same with Aliu.

Things will also be different this coming year, they are telling Ward was system to employ so it matches the Flames.

And the person to blame for the Flames having no AHL talent right now is Sutter. Feaster's picks are just entering the pro ranks this coming year, so you really can't blame him.
To be honest the only problem I have with Ward was his system wasn't anything like Hartley's I find it hard to believe they couldn't sit down and discuss the system the wanted to play.

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06-16-2013, 01:24 PM
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To be honest the only problem I have with Ward was his system wasn't anything like Hartley's I find it hard to believe they couldn't sit down and discuss the system the wanted to play.
There is 2 schools of thought.

1. You play the system that fits your plays.
2. You play the system of the parent club.

I think both have alot of merit because I think winning is as much apart of development as fitting in when you reach the big club.

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06-16-2013, 11:35 PM
  #28
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And if Irving couldn't play better than Taylor or Brust to earn time, it's no ones fault but his own. I've never been particularily impressed with Irving. He;s been given years to step up his game and snatch a spot, never been able to. In the last few seasons, if he played well enough to be an AHL starter, he would have been.

Irving just didn't pan out, and won't likely become anything better thana backup.

One of the reasons I want to take Fucale at 28 if he's still there. No guarantee Brossoit/Ortio will pan out, and Ramo/Berra, while not old, are mid to late 20s, so they'd be winding down a bit when the guys like Brossoit/Fucale are getting ready, considering goalies usually aren't ready until at least 24 or so.

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06-16-2013, 11:58 PM
  #29
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And if Irving couldn't play better than Taylor or Brust to earn time, it's no ones fault but his own. I've never been particularily impressed with Irving. He;s been given years to step up his game and snatch a spot, never been able to. In the last few seasons, if he played well enough to be an AHL starter, he would have been.

Irving just didn't pan out, and won't likely become anything better thana backup.

One of the reasons I want to take Fucale at 28 if he's still there. No guarantee Brossoit/Ortio will pan out, and Ramo/Berra, while not old, are mid to late 20s, so they'd be winding down a bit when the guys like Brossoit/Fucale are getting ready, considering goalies usually aren't ready until at least 24 or so.
I was critiqued pretty hard by some guys last year at this time for calling Irving a bust. I don't want Fucale at all. Unless he slid to the 3rd round or something. No more 1st round goaltenders as far as I'm concerned. Looking at how few of the top flight goalie's were taken in the first round compared to forwards really indicates how poorly teams have done projecting the position. Fucale isn't really even that dominant. Tristan Jarry put up way better numbers. I mean 1.61 GAA and a .936 save percentage. Fucale was a very pedestrian 2.35 and .909. He also only stood 5'11" at the combine. Not really any guys that size play the position anymore in the NHL.

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06-17-2013, 12:19 AM
  #30
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people unfairly criticize fucales number because he was on a "stacked team". Fucales team runs and guns, so many of the scoring chances are harder. plus he doesnt get shots as regularily so he has to remain mentally ready even when cold, which is very tough.

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06-17-2013, 12:40 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by FlamesFanatic12 View Post
And if Irving couldn't play better than Taylor or Brust to earn time, it's no ones fault but his own. I've never been particularily impressed with Irving. He;s been given years to step up his game and snatch a spot, never been able to. In the last few seasons, if he played well enough to be an AHL starter, he would have been.
Snatch a spot meaning what? He was the MVP and the legit starter of the Heat a couple of years ago. It's amazing how all the detractors conveniently ignore that point.

Then he got injured. Brust was signed and took the starters job. But, and this is the biggest criticism of Ward and the development process with the Heat, Irving never got a chance to regain his starter's job. Because Ward coaches to win, he rolled with the hot hand, which was often Brust, and later Taylor. All of which meant Irving was relegated to once a month starts and few goalies will thrive in that kind of environment.

Irving was mishandled and that should be obvious to anyone. he wasn't even given a chance at the job during the lockout; rather than developing Flames prospects, the Heat choose a platoon of Brust and Taylor, neither of whom have a NHL future. That's bad development, plain and simple.

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06-17-2013, 12:46 AM
  #32
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I didn't really like what I saw of Irving up on the Flames this season either, I dislike his tendencies. I just never really thought he was some surefire great goalie prospect, never should have been drafted in the first round imo, Flames fans have overvalued Irving since we drafted him

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06-17-2013, 12:51 AM
  #33
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I didn't really like what I saw of Irving up on the Flames this season either, I dislike his tendencies. I just never really thought he was some surefire great goalie prospect, never should have been drafted in the first round imo, Flames fans have overvalued Irving since we drafted him
Say what you want about his style but he more often than not got the job done. He wasn't the prettiest goalie to watch but he could make some big saves. It is clear that management gave up on him long before the season started, put him on waivers even after he won the backup job, didn't play him at all until Kipper got hurt even though Kipper was playing ****ing terrible (last team to use a backup), brought in MacDonald the second they could (even after just signing Taylor to backup Irving), sent Irving to the minors after his first bad game, never called him up at the end of the year to see what he had (even after he played some great hovkey on the Heat). Management didn't like Irving long before he ever played a game for us and that kind of biased development will haunt us if it continues.

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06-17-2013, 12:54 AM
  #34
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Snatch a spot meaning what? He was the MVP and the legit starter of the Heat a couple of years ago. It's amazing how all the detractors conveniently ignore that point.

Then he got injured. Brust was signed and took the starters job. But, and this is the biggest criticism of Ward and the development process with the Heat, Irving never got a chance to regain his starter's job. Because Ward coaches to win, he rolled with the hot hand, which was often Brust, and later Taylor. All of which meant Irving was relegated to once a month starts and few goalies will thrive in that kind of environment.

Irving was mishandled and that should be obvious to anyone. he wasn't even given a chance at the job during the lockout; rather than developing Flames prospects, the Heat choose a platoon of Brust and Taylor, neither of whom have a NHL future. That's bad development, plain and simple.
You are mixing up Taylor and Brust. Taylor came in and took Irving's job last season when Irving was off for family reasons (not due to injury). Irving returned just before the playoffs but Taylor was still playing at a very high level so Ward went with him.

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06-17-2013, 12:55 AM
  #35
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Yes, I can see the point. But I don't think anyone in the league feels he is a particularily great prospect at this point, otherwise, someone would have claimed him off waivers at the beginning of the season, especially with only the one year on his deal left, it would have literally been no risk to see what he had, even if it was only at the AHL level, yet nobody took him.

Poor development may have contributed, but I doubt Irving would have ever become more than a good backup in the NHL.

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06-17-2013, 12:57 AM
  #36
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Say what you want about his style but he more often than not got the job done. He wasn't the prettiest goalie to watch but he could make some big saves. It is clear that management gave up on him long before the season started, put him on waivers even after he won the backup job, didn't play him at all until Kipper got hurt even though Kipper was playing ****ing terrible (last team to use a backup), brought in MacDonald the second they could (even after just signing Taylor to backup Irving), sent Irving to the minors after his first bad game, never called him up at the end of the year to see what he had (even after he played some great hovkey on the Heat). Management didn't like Irving long before he ever played a game for us and that kind of biased development will haunt us if it continues.
I have thought about this a great deal and all I can come up with is that I think the Irving situation was caused by him taking time off late in the season in 2011-12, he put family ahead of hockey during a post season push in Abbotsford and I believe it caused the organization to question his commitment.

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06-17-2013, 12:58 AM
  #37
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You are mixing up Taylor and Brust. Taylor came in and took Irving's job last season when Irving was off for family reasons (not due to injury). Irving returned just before the playoffs but Taylor was still playing at a very high level so Ward went with him.
Ah, my bad.

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06-17-2013, 12:59 AM
  #38
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Yes, I can see the point. But I don't think anyone in the league feels he is a particularily great prospect at this point, otherwise, someone would have claimed him off waivers at the beginning of the season, especially with only the one year on his deal left, it would have literally been no risk to see what he had, even if it was only at the AHL level, yet nobody took him.

Poor development may have contributed, but I doubt Irving would have ever become more than a good backup in the NHL.
players are rarely claimed off waivers to start a seasons. Teams send all their borderline guys to the AHL at the same time and the waiver wires are flooded with decent players. The only time a guy is claimed that time of year is if a team really likes the player a ton.

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06-17-2013, 01:02 AM
  #39
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True, buta 25 year old goalie with high prospects should trump that ideal in a way.

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06-17-2013, 01:06 AM
  #40
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I have thought about this a great deal and all I can come up with is that I think the Irving situation was caused by him taking time off late in the season in 2011-12, he put family ahead of hockey during a post season push in Abbotsford and I believe it caused the organization to question his commitment.
He had a kid at the end of the 2011-2012 season which caused him to miss at least 4 games. Kind of petty of an organization to question a players commitment if their wife is giving birth and they want to be there.

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06-17-2013, 01:07 AM
  #41
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Though I never liked Irving, I do wish him the best. I hope he gets a contract with an NHL team, and becomes the next Gigure/Anderson. Just don't see it happening

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06-17-2013, 01:07 AM
  #42
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Yes, I can see the point. But I don't think anyone in the league feels he is a particularily great prospect at this point, otherwise, someone would have claimed him off waivers at the beginning of the season, especially with only the one year on his deal left, it would have literally been no risk to see what he had, even if it was only at the AHL level, yet nobody took him.

Poor development may have contributed, but I doubt Irving would have ever become more than a good backup in the NHL.
They put him on waivers the night before your roster had to be set so in order for someone to claim him they needed to send a player to the ahl that was waiver exempt (basically meaning if a rookie had made your team you had to say to bad and send him to the ahl). There was almost no shot at him being claimed it was simply a shot at Irving and his confidence.

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06-17-2013, 01:11 AM
  #43
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He had a kid at the end of the 2011-2012 season which caused him to miss at least 4 games. Kind of petty of an organization to question a players commitment if their wife is giving birth and they want to be there.
Most players miss 1 game and sometimes not that much. Also those 4 games he missed were over the course of a full 2 weeks, I have always been a Irving apologist but even to me that is excessive since it' was reported their baby was healthy and there were no complications.

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06-17-2013, 01:20 AM
  #44
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Most players miss 1 game and sometimes not that much. Also those 4 games he missed were over the course of a full 2 weeks, I have always been a Irving apologist but even to me that is excessive since it' was reported their baby was healthy and there were no complications.
Hmm, I can see where that becomes an issue then. Still, they could have given him another chance to regain his starters job.

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06-17-2013, 01:28 AM
  #45
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Hmm, I can see where that becomes an issue then. Still, they could have given him another chance to regain his starters job.
Oh I would of loved that, I still believe Irving has the ability to become an NHL starter. I may be the only one to still think it I am not agreeing with it if I am right, it's jus thte only thing I can think of because even this year in the NHL he was no worse than Taylor or Kipper, the only decent goaltending we received this year was from Mac

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06-17-2013, 01:50 AM
  #46
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I still believe in him too! Lol

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06-17-2013, 09:23 AM
  #47
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I think Irving could've been a stud and I think he still might. This year was a gong show with Feaster jerking his knee over goalies thinking it was their fault why we weren't winning games. I don't think it was a reflection of Irving

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06-17-2013, 10:01 AM
  #48
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He had a kid at the end of the 2011-2012 season which caused him to miss at least 4 games. Kind of petty of an organization to question a players commitment if their wife is giving birth and they want to be there.
That doesn't look good for towards the organization. Players talk to each other and pass feedback. Hopefully nobody takes Irving seriously

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06-17-2013, 04:49 PM
  #49
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Snatch a spot meaning what? He was the MVP and the legit starter of the Heat a couple of years ago. It's amazing how all the detractors conveniently ignore that point.

Then he got injured. Brust was signed and took the starters job. But, and this is the biggest criticism of Ward and the development process with the Heat, Irving never got a chance to regain his starter's job. Because Ward coaches to win, he rolled with the hot hand, which was often Brust, and later Taylor. All of which meant Irving was relegated to once a month starts and few goalies will thrive in that kind of environment.

Irving was mishandled and that should be obvious to anyone. he wasn't even given a chance at the job during the lockout; rather than developing Flames prospects, the Heat choose a platoon of Brust and Taylor, neither of whom have a NHL future. That's bad development, plain and simple.
Well to what extent do you hand him the starter's role? By all accounts he had by far the worst training camp out of all the goalies last fall and that's why his chances were limited off the bat. Then he was outperformed in his starts by BOTH Taylor and Brust. He was then given another chance by the organization in Flames training camp where he beat out Karlsson. But then he botched that chance by sucking at the NHL level.

Irving has had a ton of chances in this organization and he failed to seize them all. At times he was good but apparently consistency is not his strong suit. I think it is too simplistic to blame this all on Ward, Irving has to take responsibility for his play as well. If he can't outperform guys like Taylor or Brust at the AHL level then maybe he isn't all that.

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06-18-2013, 12:37 PM
  #50
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Don't know why Feaster would make unsolicited statements about his confidence in retaining free agents who may be subject to offer sheets because we have tons of cap space. It's almost like he's daring other teams to put in offer sheets. And they might, just to screw our rebuilding cap. (think Avs revenge)

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Well, he also named Giordano, Brodie, and Glencross as untouchables. What else is there to trade to move up in the draft? 1st+Backlund/Gaudreau/Horak/whatever else won't be enough to move up.
Why Gio and Glencross would be on an untouchable list is beyond me, not to mention that they were and Bouwmeester was not. I would have rather have retained JBow through a rebuild than either of those two who could also could likely have got similar returns. Where will Gio and Glenny be by the time this team is competing at a high level again? Meanwhile their stock is likely at an apex. Isn't retaining post apex players just as bad asset management as aquiring post apex players?


Last edited by bigchief12: 06-18-2013 at 12:48 PM. Reason: spelling
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