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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (Part 5)

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06-16-2013, 10:33 AM
  #426
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
All star nominations mean NOTHING! Mike Komisarek was a bloody all star. Rask is better the Price. You can try to downplay him as much as you want. He has put up good to great numbers for his entire career in the regular season AND playoffs. I know for the fanboys, playoff numbers don't seem to count, but Rask is 3 wins away from a Cup after stealing yet another game. What will be the excuses and the ways you discredit him once a ring is on his finger? Both goalies playing...I have never seen Price play at that level in high pressure games.
At the time Komisarek was considered one of the best shutdown defenceman in the league. Being an All-Star is an accolade like any other, it's not as impressive as a Vezina but they also don't give them out based on hype and terrible seasons. They do mean something.

Rask is a great goalie, but whether he wins a cup or not doesn't change anything. He's had an amazing playoff run win or lose. But until he plays a full season there will be question marks about putting him amongst the NHL's elite. That's all I was saying.

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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Price is a decent/good goalie, but some here have built him up to god-like status due to the media, fans, Gainey's ass kissing. The stats tell a different story. Oh but he's young...ok..then why is he paid like a top 2 goalie? But but...All stars... He has gotten out of the 2nd round once....and got embarassed. He hasn't gotten any better. What in his game has improved? The same issues he had years ago are still here.

He is still developing and can be a great goalie, but he's not there yet. Others with less hype, draft positioning, less talent, coddling have surpassed him.
I don't consider him to have a god-like status. In any given year he's one of a dozen or so goalies with a good shot at putting up an top-5 season. But most of time he's in the 5-10 range.

As far as stats go if he was playing backup on a team that was consistently near the top of the standings he would look much better. Winning in the playoffs is about the team not one player.

By the way he will be the 8th highest paid goalie next season.

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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I didn't say that.

But give me YOUR opinion. Do you believe that Price, Dupuis, Sedin and/or Nabokov deserved a vote as top 5 player in the league last season ? If we both agree these 4 didn't deserve a vote, then why are you being contrarian ?
You said they were either high or crazy. It gives the impression that you don't think their opinions are worth anything.

Do I think they were top 5, no. Do I think they were top-15 or top-20 quite possibly.

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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
We used a top 5 pick on him. A top 5 pick is a huge opportunity for a franchise to score an impact player. That comes with expectations no matter what.

Now that he is making top dollars and is paid like a top 3 goalie, he should be playing like one.

There are reasons for the expectations. You make it sound like WS expectations are unfair but Price isn't your regular 3rd round draft pick with a 2-3M cap hit.
I understand why he has the hype/expectations but that doesn't change anything. If he was drafted in the 7th round and performing exactly the same way he would be considered a steal but would that somehow give us a better chance to win hockey games?

I have no problem taking salary/cap hit into consideration since that does effect our chances but draft position doesn't. Judge the player on what he's done, judge the Scouts/GM on the draft.

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06-16-2013, 10:48 AM
  #427
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Since voting was opened up to people on the Internet who may or may not watch or attend games, All Star selections have become almost meaningless. The game is a joke so is selection process.

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06-16-2013, 12:06 PM
  #428
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Well here you have it folks PK Subban is officially the new Franchise player. Not that Price deserved that title in the first place...

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06-16-2013, 01:27 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Since voting was opened up to people on the Internet who may or may not watch or attend games, All Star selections have become almost meaningless. The game is a joke so is selection process.
Only the "starting" line up is fan voted, all the other players are selected as before. In Price's case he was an All-Star in 09, 11, 12. He was not the fan selection in either 2011 or 2012. I can't find the results for 09 but that was the one in MTL so it's likely he was the fan selection.

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06-16-2013, 01:28 PM
  #430
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Well here you have it folks PK Subban is officially the new Franchise player. Not that Price deserved that title in the first place...
Are we only allowed one.

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06-17-2013, 01:11 AM
  #431
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No young player, as far as I can remember, has been handed everything by the Habs as Carey Price. He was treated, from the start, as a future Hall of Famer as his size and agility blinded everybody.

Following the win of team Canada jr, Habs brought him in Hamilton in the playoffs, to win the Calder trophy, this at the cost of Halak who had carried the Bulldogs all year;
Traded Halak after his miraculous playoff play-that was too much of a threat;
Traded also any goalie of decent worth to make sure that he did not feel threatened;
Fired 2 goalie coaches;
Handed him a 6 year/39M contract....

In the meantime, Carey has delivered very inconsistent regular season play...he was however very consistent in the playoffs with performances rivalled only by MAF and Luongo.

The problem with Carey Price is that some tough love was needed but never came. We can no longer speak of potential and provide lame excuses such as age anymore. What we have here is a good goalie that was overrated. Luckily, there are still some GM's who would give a King's ransom for him, but the window is now much smaller. Another bad playoff and we have a problem.

The objective is to win the Cup, and Carey has demonstrated too many times that he cannot perform consistently at a championship level. Let's see what MB has in the tank. Good GM's quickly correct their own mistakes.

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06-17-2013, 03:10 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Habsrback View Post
No young player, as far as I can remember, has been handed everything by the Habs as Carey Price. He was treated, from the start, as a future Hall of Famer as his size and agility blinded everybody.

Following the win of team Canada jr, Habs brought him in Hamilton in the playoffs, to win the Calder trophy, this at the cost of Halak who had carried the Bulldogs all year;
Traded Halak after his miraculous playoff play-that was too much of a threat;
Traded also any goalie of decent worth to make sure that he did not feel threatened;
Fired 2 goalie coaches;
Handed him a 6 year/39M contract....

In the meantime, Carey has delivered very inconsistent regular season play...he was however very consistent in the playoffs with performances rivalled only by MAF and Luongo.

The problem with Carey Price is that some tough love was needed but never came. We can no longer speak of potential and provide lame excuses such as age anymore. What we have here is a good goalie that was overrated. Luckily, there are still some GM's who would give a King's ransom for him, but the window is now much smaller. Another bad playoff and we have a problem.

The objective is to win the Cup, and Carey has demonstrated too many times that he cannot perform consistently at a championship level. Let's see what MB has in the tank. Good GM's quickly correct their own mistakes.
We can no longer say that he will get better with age because he's 25 now? A goalie that everyone considers TOP 5 like Pekka Rinne started to be a starter in the NHL at like 30 and before that was AHL bound every year. Just be patient, we all know what Price can do...

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06-17-2013, 05:15 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Chfan View Post
We can no longer say that he will get better with age because he's 25 now? A goalie that everyone considers TOP 5 like Pekka Rinne started to be a starter in the NHL at like 30 and before that was AHL bound every year. Just be patient, we all know what Price can do...
Goalies seldom increase their performance substantially after facing 10000+ shots at the NHL level, it seldom happens, if ever. Expecting a turn of fortune now is unlikely to happen. What you see is mostly what you get. A better team might help some.

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06-17-2013, 06:04 AM
  #434
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There really were, and quite honestly, it was the majority of the season, but I'm sure some stat or shortened memory or just one of "the pack" will refute that.
While everything becomes subjective depending of which "side" we are in.....and while save% and gaa doesn't tell the whole story, that's about what we have left to look at Price's season....and by looking at it, the "stretch" people are talking about are probably only 1 or 2 nice stretchs. At best, we are talking about 1/3 of the season.

Start of season, gave only 3 goals or less for the first 8 games. Yet, in those games 2 times under .900 record. From Feb. 23 to Feb. 27, 3 awesome games...but then 7 and 5 goals given the games after. From Mar. 7 to Mar. 26, surely his best stretch, 9 games, but 3 times with a save% under .900 during that stretch. It went downhill from the last 10 games of the season. You hear people sometimes and you think that he was only bad the last 3-4 games giving him the record he has....but it started earlier than that. And in a 42-game season....that's 1/4 of the season.

But again, that's SOLELY going with the stats. Then you start remembering the style he was playing in, being way too small tortoise style all year long, on his belly way too often, giving bad goals more often than not, and it was NOT a great season. A good season...okay...but that shouldn't be his standards....


Last edited by Whitesnake: 06-17-2013 at 07:41 AM.
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06-17-2013, 07:01 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Chfan View Post
We can no longer say that he will get better with age because he's 25 now? A goalie that everyone considers TOP 5 like Pekka Rinne started to be a starter in the NHL at like 30 and before that was AHL bound every year. Just be patient, we all know what Price can do...
Age for Carey shouldn't really work the same way it does other goalies. Carey is an old "25". While most goalies are just getting started in the league...Carey is a 6 year vet having played 340 games...compare that to a 25 year old goalie who most likely wouldn't even have 100 games under his belt. That's why we'd say something like "he's young..he needs more games". But Price has played MANY games and we can't say that he has gotten better since his rookie season. That to me is scary. Not saying he can't turn it around, but I'd be surprised if he went all god mode. Hope he does.

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06-17-2013, 08:40 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Chfan View Post
We can no longer say that he will get better with age because he's 25 now? A goalie that everyone considers TOP 5 like Pekka Rinne started to be a starter in the NHL at like 30 and before that was AHL bound every year. Just be patient, we all know what Price can do...
at least get your facts straight, Rinne is 30 -> NOW... and started playing 50+ games a season in the NHL at 26...

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06-17-2013, 08:50 AM
  #437
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Well here you have it folks PK Subban is officially the new Franchise player. Not that Price deserved that title in the first place...


PK's definitely there, though. No question.

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06-17-2013, 10:00 PM
  #438
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Rask is showing night after night what Carey pricey should be doing..

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06-17-2013, 10:10 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by jayze25 View Post
Rask is showing night after night what Carey pricey should be doing..
And quite possibly would be doing if he was a Bruin.

Did you see all the difficult shots Rask faced? I didn't.

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06-17-2013, 10:29 PM
  #440
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Rask is showing night after night what Carey pricey should be doing..
Rask is sitting behind monster blueliners. Not a coincidence that their goalies put up great numbers year after year.

Rask is a great goalie regardless, but he's got a lot of help.

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06-17-2013, 11:16 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Only the "starting" line up is fan voted, all the other players are selected as before. In Price's case he was an All-Star in 09, 11, 12. He was not the fan selection in either 2011 or 2012. I can't find the results for 09 but that was the one in MTL so it's likely he was the fan selection.
He was voted, but was also well deserving as well at the time.

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06-17-2013, 11:19 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Only the "starting" line up is fan voted, all the other players are selected as before. In Price's case he was an All-Star in 09, 11, 12. He was not the fan selection in either 2011 or 2012. I can't find the results for 09 but that was the one in MTL so it's likely he was the fan selection.
I'm not positive, but I think Habs fans stuffed the boxes that year and had at least 3, maybe 4 starters.

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06-18-2013, 03:56 AM
  #443
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Rask is sitting behind monster blueliners. Not a coincidence that their goalies put up great numbers year after year.

Rask is a great goalie regardless, but he's got a lot of help.
So, in Boston, Carey would not have been letting in those bananas? Are you really blaming the Habs D on all of those weak goals?

If Price is in Boston, they're sitting at home watching the playoffs.

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06-18-2013, 05:23 AM
  #444
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I'm not positive, but I think Habs fans stuffed the boxes that year and had at least 3, maybe 4 starters.
2009 it was Kovalev, Markov, Komisarek, Price voted into starting lineup. Tell me that makes sense at all.

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06-18-2013, 06:07 AM
  #445
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
2009 it was Kovalev, Markov, Komisarek, Price voted into starting lineup. Tell me that makes sense at all.
At the time, Price was considered as the only one who really deserved to be there. That being said Kovalev is the guy who gave the better show.

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06-18-2013, 06:11 AM
  #446
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So, in Boston, Carey would not have been letting in those bananas? Are you really blaming the Habs D on all of those weak goals?

If Price is in Boston, they're sitting at home watching the playoffs.
I don't know about that. I feel like if Price was in almost any other market he'd be a lot better

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06-18-2013, 06:14 AM
  #447
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At the time, Price was considered as the only one who really deserved to be there. That being said Kovalev is the guy who gave the better show.
What? There were very few dmen better than Markov in the year 2009. If he'd been on the Caps or Pens that year he could have been the first dman to break 90 points in a long time.

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06-18-2013, 06:15 AM
  #448
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Rask is sitting behind monster blueliners. Not a coincidence that their goalies put up great numbers year after year.

Rask is a great goalie regardless, but he's got a lot of help.
So let's hope that you've never called that Boston defense, one of the worst in history....or "incredibly" overrated....or it's Chara and nothing else. LIke I keep reading in majority around here.

By the way, it's more than Boston D. It's Julien's system. Always on the guy with the puck, there are no breathing room for the opponent. Tough system to play in that is incredibly succesful during the playoffs. But it didn't stop Rask for having to do miracles as well. People have indeed short term memory. As great as Julien's system is, if Rask isn't there in the first 2 games, it is an obvious 2-0 Hawks. Period. No matter their D's, no matter the system.

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06-18-2013, 06:16 AM
  #449
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I don't know about that. I feel like if Price was in almost any other market he'd be a lot better
That's the yellow slice on the Price-Wheel-of-Excuses , right between "He's only 25" and "Our D sucks".


Last edited by Agnostic: 06-18-2013 at 06:22 AM.
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06-18-2013, 07:13 AM
  #450
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That's the yellow slice on the Price-Wheel-of-Excuses , right between "He's only 25" and "Our D sucks".

It is an excuse but it's true lol some players thrive in this type of market some don't, it is what it is.. I still think Price puts up Vezina numbers next year though

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