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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 11.0

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Old
06-17-2013, 10:58 AM
  #776
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
So you'd be okay with drafting a Matt Carkner clone in the first round?

I think for stay at home defensemen the first trait to look at should be "how good is he defending", and then size and physicality. McCoshen for instance isn't very physical but that's a pretty bad reason to pass on him depending on who else is there.
Honestly i dont know anything about these prospects. Obviously i dont want a guy who has no offensive skills, being able to move the puck is as important as being physical.

Basically if there's another Tinordi/Emelin type available in our first three picks, take him. That's all i'm saying. We need more of that.

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06-17-2013, 11:02 AM
  #777
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Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
Honestly i dont know anything about these prospects. Obviously i dont want a guy who has no offensive skills, being able to move the puck is as important as being physical.

Basically if there's another Tinordi/Emelin type available in our first three picks, take him. That's all i'm saying. We need more of that.
BPA OR GTFO is generally what this will boil down to. We don't pass on a better player so we can draft for a current team need.

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06-17-2013, 11:06 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
Anyone that we should give consideration to with some of our picks?
Maybe one of the goalies late if none of the better guys are available. I wouldn't really, they weren't signed for a reason, most likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Yes, you've made that clear.

So you aren't worried about the fact Rychel was only a point per game player without Khokhlachev around?
I'm not worried. Not to mention the stats they just posted but also that I expect Rychel to play with Eller or Galchenyuk at the next level. Producing with great talents means that he'll be able to finish their plays. Kind of what we want, isn't it?

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06-17-2013, 11:24 AM
  #779
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Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
Honestly i dont know anything about these prospects. Obviously i dont want a guy who has no offensive skills, being able to move the puck is as important as being physical.

Basically if there's another Tinordi/Emelin type available in our first three picks, take him. That's all i'm saying. We need more of that.
Would love to have it all but for me I am willing to look at filling need and maybe a guy who is BPA at what at he does and if Im looking at a guy whose destiny is likely as a defensive D-man then I want the size, tough physical play, skating ability, solid defense and a good 1st pass out of the zone as my cut-off requirements, offensive ability isn't so important.
It was a shock to me when I heard Carkners name come up in the NHL because when we drafted him he was described as the slowest player in the whole draft, he is an exception in making it to the NHL with such horrible skating. Never thought he would ever make it. Good for him.

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06-17-2013, 11:28 AM
  #780
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Maybe one of the goalies late if none of the better guys are available. I wouldn't really, they weren't signed for a reason, most likely.



I'm not worried. Not to mention the stats they just posted but also that I expect Rychel to play with Eller or Galchenyuk at the next level. Producing with great talents means that he'll be able to finish their plays. Kind of what we want, isn't it?
Yea, you aren't drafting Rychel to carry a line. He's a guy you would play in your top 6 who has the skill and offensive talents to keep up, but plays a complementry role, and can finish, while bring size and grit to your top 6.

Though I do think there's a chance, a slight chance, that he ends up better than that. As in, a guy who can be primary goal scorer on a scoring line, potting 30 a year or so type.

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06-17-2013, 11:37 AM
  #781
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'm not worried. Not to mention the stats they just posted but also that I expect Rychel to play with Eller or Galchenyuk at the next level. Producing with great talents means that he'll be able to finish their plays. Kind of what we want, isn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Yea, you aren't drafting Rychel to carry a line. He's a guy you would play in your top 6 who has the skill and offensive talents to keep up, but plays a complementry role, and can finish, while bring size and grit to your top 6.
That's fine when you project what he could be, but the real question is will there be a potentially better player available at #25 in this draft? My gut feeling is yes. It really only takes 1 or 2 ''reaches'' in the top 24 for it to happen in my view.

I hadn't realized his GPG ratio was the same regardless of who was centering him, good stat That.

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06-17-2013, 11:46 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
That's fine when you project what he could be, but the real question is will there be a potentially better player available at #25 in this draft? My gut feeling is yes. It really only takes 1 or 2 ''reaches'' in the top 24 for it to happen in my view.

I hadn't realized his GPG ratio was the same regardless of who was centering him, good stat That.
Burakowsky could be that guy. Zykov could be that guy. Perhaps Mantha as well. Other than those 3, I don't really see a forward who would be better selection than Rychel that could slip, and honestly I don't see those 3 slipping either. Erne and Rychel are neck and neck for me. Erne's the better skater, and is more complete in all three zones, but Rychel is grittier and the better goal scorer which makes him a better fit IMO. Hartman I like, but I worry about his ability to stay healthy, and I think Rychel is a safer bet to play a top 6 role.

As for D, the D's that I consider to be a cut above the Rychel/Erne grouping should all be long gone. The next grouping for D is a big grouping, and I think it would be a beter bet to try and land one of the backend players of that grouping at pick 34. Then just go BPA at 36.

We'll see how it unfolds draft day. Right now Rychel is 15th on my big board among forwards, and 20th overall.

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06-17-2013, 11:50 AM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Yes, you've made that clear.

So you aren't worried about the fact Rychel was only a point per game player without Khokhlachev around?
And that's a bad thing?

Last time I looked there were about 20 players in all of the OHL that were a point a game player or higher. Rychel did finish with a 1.38 point a game.

Just as you can make the argument that his production was dependent on Khokhlachev you can also say that he can produce when with a skilled player. That is not something you can say about too many players - well not players selected late in the first round.

I've seen a number of Rychel's games and I see potential in him. How he stacks up against other draftees, I couldn't say. I haven't seen enough junior players to evaluate but being a point a game player without your linemate is not necessarily a bad thing.

My 1 1/2 cents.

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06-17-2013, 11:54 AM
  #784
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
Would love to have it all but for me I am willing to look at filling need and maybe a guy who is BPA at what at he does and if Im looking at a guy whose destiny is likely as a defensive D-man then I want the size, tough physical play, skating ability, solid defense and a good 1st pass out of the zone as my cut-off requirements, offensive ability isn't so important.
It was a shock to me when I heard Carkners name come up in the NHL because when we drafted him he was described as the slowest player in the whole draft, he is an exception in making it to the NHL with such horrible skating. Never thought he would ever make it. Good for him.
From what I understand, if Morin or Ristolainen is there at 25, we take them. Also, most of the experts are saying BPA is quite different from one scout/team to the next after say the top 9-10 picks. So the idea of "just pick the BPA" is kind of simplistic, since our BPA could be very different than someone else's. Honestly I'd rather they take some gambles on players with more size and grit than skill, in the hope they turn into power forwards, than take guys who are skilled but lack size and physicality. And it's not like they will be taking guys who are who off the board, because there isn't much difference than a guy ranked 15 and 35th it seems this year.

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06-17-2013, 11:57 AM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
BPA OR GTFO is generally what this will boil down to. We don't pass on a better player so we can draft for a current team need.
But the concept of who's the better player is really skewed this year it seems. The rankings for these players is all over the map. I'm definitely more in the pick for need camp this year.

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06-17-2013, 12:04 PM
  #786
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What's your feel on him?
Never was impressed in any games I saw him play in. Same reports that some are talking about Mantha, I was seeing it with Bailey. Not exactly your biggest warrior our there, at least not in the games I saw him. I personnally would not pick him with our first 3 picks. But he'll probably not be available at our 4th.

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06-17-2013, 12:06 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
That's fine when you project what he could be, but the real question is will there be a potentially better player available at #25 in this draft? My gut feeling is yes. It really only takes 1 or 2 ''reaches'' in the top 24 for it to happen in my view.
I hadn't realized his GPG ratio was the same regardless of who was centering him, good stat That.
Even without 'reaches' occurring, there will be a wealth of players that will have a higher upside. I find it incredulous in a draft of this depth we are considering a player that people are talking about who may develop, hopefully will develop or has the potential to develop the basic skills necessary to play and excel in the NHL. Every player that will be available at 25 will have 'issues' in their game. In Rychel's case, the issues are so manifest that taking him at 25, when there are such better alternatives that should be available ( Dauphin, Poirier, Theodore, Bowey, Klimchuk, Hartman, De La Rose, Mueller, Compher, Lehkonen, Petan, Zykov, Mantha, Dickinson, Bigras, Santini, Bailey, Hayden & McCoshen) who I would all take before Rychel, is a pronounced mistake. To this writer, Rychel is a player of limited upside who we should respectfully take a pass on.

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06-17-2013, 12:11 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
And that's a bad thing?

Last time I looked there were about 20 players in all of the OHL that were a point a game player or higher. Rychel did finish with a 1.38 point a game.
Looking at it, it's at least 40 OHL players who averaged a point a game when you look at PPG and not point total.

This was Rychel's 3rd OHL season since he's a late birthday, he's touted as a 1st rounder and an offensive player. Being around a point per game is the absolute bare minimum for a player in his situation in my view.

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06-17-2013, 12:13 PM
  #789
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It is bold prediction time. Feel free to post your bold predictions...



In the 2013 draft, The Montreal Canadiens will:

Trade #25 for #29/30+#54 from the Dallas Stars

With the 29/30th pick: Ian McCoshen
With the 34th pick: Justin Bailey
With the 36th pick: Emile Poirier

Trade #55+#86 for #44.

With the 44th pick: John Hayden
With the 54th pick: Jonathon-Ismael Diaby
With the 71st pick: Spencer Martin

They will trade rights to Ryder for 4th or 5th round pick.

They will pick Liam Coughlin in the 6th or 7th round.

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06-17-2013, 12:14 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Looking at it, it's at least 40 OHL players who averaged a point a game when you look at PPG and not point total.

This was Rychel's 3rd OHL season since he's a late birthday, he's touted as a 1st rounder and an offensive player. Being around a point per game is the absolute bare minimum for a player in his situation in my view.
In his case I think we have to take into account that he scores a lot of goals. He finished 7th in goal scoring in the OHL. The 6 players ahead of him are all 19 and 20 year olds. I'll take a 40-20 guy over a 20-40 guy anytime.

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06-17-2013, 12:17 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
It is bold prediction time. Feel free to post your bold predictions...



In the 2013 draft, The Montreal Canadiens will:

Trade #25 for #29/30+#54 from the Dallas Stars

With the 29/30th pick: Ian McCoshen
With the 34th pick: Justin Bailey
With the 36th pick: Emile Poirier

Trade #55+#86 for #44.

With the 44th pick: John Hayden
With the 54th pick: Jonathon-Ismael Diaby
With the 71st pick: Spencer Martin

They will trade rights to Ryder for 4th or 5th round pick.

They will pick Liam Coughlin in the 6th or 7th round.
The boldest prediction I have, is Justin Bailey with #25. Maybe it sounds nuts, and I know he didn't impress WS but, I think he's got the ability to be an excellent, top-line player. Bold and some would say misguided but I think it could be Timmins' off the board pick. Either way, I think we draft him.

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06-17-2013, 12:17 PM
  #792
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Originally Posted by ChesterNimitz View Post
Even without 'reaches' occurring, there will be a wealth of players that will have a higher upside. I find it incredulous in a draft of this depth we are considering a player that people are talking about who may develop, hopefully will develop or has the potential to develop the basic skills necessary to play and excel in the NHL. Every player that will be available at 25 will have 'issues' in their game. In Rychel's case, the issues are so manifest that taking him at 25, when there are such better alternatives that should be available ( Dauphin, Poirier, Theodore, Bowey, Klimchuk, Hartman, De La Rose, Mueller, Compher, Lehkonen, Petan, Zykov, Mantha, Dickinson, Bigras, Santini, Bailey, Hayden & McCoshen) who I would all take before Rychel, is a pronounced mistake. To this writer, Rychel is a player of limited upside who we should respectfully take a pass on.
Im not so sure that they are better than Rychel.

I would have Rychel 5th out of that group.

Zykov, Mantha, Hartman, Mueller, Rychel, Petan, Klimchuk, McCoshen, Compher, De La Rose, Santini, Dauphin, Bowey, Poirier, Dickinson, Theodore, Bigras, Bailey, Lekhonen and Hayden.

Petan maybe lower due to the risk around him.

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06-17-2013, 12:21 PM
  #793
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Seems to me that 3 of the biggest stories as far as "Where the heck will they be going" will be Rychel, Bailey and Mantha? Who else are you really wondering where he'll go?

Personnally, I'm REALLY waiting to see how high or low Zadorov will go. Just not convinced of the guy. But will others be convinced? Will he go as high as McIllrath? Or drop. Other news for me will be Wennberg, Petan, Buchnevich (how the KHL factor affect him). Really interested to see whether Pulock is a GREAT prospect or immensely declining as we also read. Really wonder how Santini will be perceived, same with McCoshen and McCarron. US prospects are ALWAYS interesting to see where they will be picked at. Interested to see where WTK boy will end up (DICKinson). All the guys I named before as possible boom or bust...Will be fun to see where the guys that the Habs invited at their Combine will end up. To see if we were finally interested or happen to stop being interested....And the famous "sleeper" in Liam Coughlin....

And obviously....MY QMJHL prospects (especially MY boy Carrier...) and MY Wolverines prospects.... But THE most important thing......Will the great Anton Slepyshev be picked this year...

Seriously, so many things to see this year aside from our own prospects....just a great and scary fun day.

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06-17-2013, 12:23 PM
  #794
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I like both kids...but Bowey vs Theodore and for me, it's not close....has to be Bowey.

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06-17-2013, 12:24 PM
  #795
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From what I understand, if Morin or Ristolainen is there at 25, we take them. Also, most of the experts are saying BPA is quite different from one scout/team to the next after say the top 9-10 picks. So the idea of "just pick the BPA" is kind of simplistic, since our BPA could be very different than someone else's. Honestly I'd rather they take some gambles on players with more size and grit than skill, in the hope they turn into power forwards, than take guys who are skilled but lack size and physicality. And it's not like they will be taking guys who are who off the board, because there isn't much difference than a guy ranked 15 and 35th it seems this year.
Would love either of those guys. In terms of BPA the way I look at it is BPA is made up of what you think is important in a player and so if you are only concerned about speed and size you end up with a fast high skill player who might be 5 foot 7. If you add in size and grit as a component then maybe you take the fastest and most skilled guy who is at least 6 foot 1 and physical. Anyway, I am with you, we have enough picks and the draft is deep enough it seems that we should be able to add size and physical play with our first number picks. Will say though anybody we take has to be a good skater, at least for his size. Cant skate, cant play except for the odd player here and there.

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06-17-2013, 12:27 PM
  #796
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It is bold prediction time. Feel free to post your bold predictions...
My bold prediction is that the habs will trade up in the first round. Maybe not into the top 10-15, but i think as players come off the board around the 15 pick or so, Timmins is gonna see a name there he really likes, and with the assets to pull off such a trade (multiple 2nd and 3rd rounders) it will happen. Also see this because this seems like a draft where you will see a lot of movement.

Maybe not a REALLY bold prediction, but...........

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06-17-2013, 12:28 PM
  #797
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My bold prediction is that the habs will trade up in the first round. Maybe not into the top 10-15, but i think as players come off the board around the 15 pick or so, Timmins is gonna see a name there he really likes, and with the assets to pull off such a trade (multiple 2nd and 3rd rounders) it will happen. Also see this because this seems like a draft where you will see a lot of movement.

Maybe not a REALLY bold prediction, but...........
So the bold prediction would be to then....trade down. Not a lot of options but it can be done. Go back a little and pick up 1 more 2nd rounder if possible.

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06-17-2013, 12:32 PM
  #798
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Originally Posted by ChesterNimitz View Post
Even without 'reaches' occurring, there will be a wealth of players that will have a higher upside. I find it incredulous in a draft of this depth we are considering a player that people are talking about who may develop, hopefully will develop or has the potential to develop the basic skills necessary to play and excel in the NHL. Every player that will be available at 25 will have 'issues' in their game. In Rychel's case, the issues are so manifest that taking him at 25, when there are such better alternatives that should be available ( Dauphin, Poirier, Theodore, Bowey, Klimchuk, Hartman, De La Rose, Mueller, Compher, Lehkonen, Petan, Zykov, Mantha, Dickinson, Bigras, Santini, Bailey, Hayden & McCoshen) who I would all take before Rychel, is a pronounced mistake. To this writer, Rychel is a player of limited upside who we should respectfully take a pass on.
What do you mean by upside? I think you underrate Rychel due to his name, and the fact he'll fight.

Make no mistake bout it, Rychel has every bit the upside of all those players you mentioned. He has consistent 30+ goals a year upside, all while being rugged. How many rugged consistent 30 goal scorers are there in the NHL?

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06-17-2013, 12:37 PM
  #799
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Expect the unexpected

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06-17-2013, 12:40 PM
  #800
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I like both kids...but Bowey vs Theodore and for me, it's not close....has to be Bowey.
I wouldn't pick Theodore until 55.. So safe to say he's a ND for me.

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