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Subban wins the Norris!!!!! (per Reality)

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Old
06-17-2013, 09:39 AM
  #651
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Exactly why the Tank Nation Ltee. should settle down and stay relative.
He actually showed that high draft pics are a prize, in spite of his confusion.

1% of the draft ranks wins 30% of the bling.

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06-17-2013, 09:40 AM
  #652
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
The way I look at it is...

At least he's honest...half of the people who hate on Subban would never admit the real reason (or even have the depth to understand) why they do.
Because he's classless and he dives a lot.

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06-17-2013, 09:47 AM
  #653
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Exactly why the Tank Nation Ltee. should settle down and stay relative.
He actually showed that high draft pics are a prize, in spite of his confusion.

3% of the draft ranks win 30% of the bling.

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06-17-2013, 09:52 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Actually, no.

True the pros didn't pick him in the 1st but the posters in that thread were complaining about Subban being picked in the SECOND round. There were another 17 places after Subban was picked. Who is to say that most of those teams wouldn't have picked him in the second?

Man, reading that thread has really deflated me for this year's draft. Some really draft knowledgeable posters come out of that thread with egg on their faces. I think I will stop listening to them about possible picks and just wait for the draft.
Opinions are all over the map when in it comes to prospects. And just because pro scouts were wrong about a kid doesn't mean they were stupid necessarily. It means the kid at 18 didn't show exactly what he could be at 24.

However, I totally agree with you that you'll never find a rocket scientist on here (pro scout or otherwise) who has the draft figured out. The draft is full of wrong guesses, poor evaluations and missed opportunities.

The only thing that really sets pro scouts apart from the arm chair ones is that the pros avoid the wild, stupid, ignorant opinions from la-la land. They're usually at least in the right ball park. But that's about it.

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06-17-2013, 09:53 AM
  #655
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The annoying thing:

Knock on Karlsson - can't play D (still, people were like, cool, whatevs, he has cool twit pics)

Knock on Subban - can't play D (except that he's amongst the BEST defenseman defensively in addition to his offensive prowess)

Not that I didn't expect this, just that it's as if people just don't watch hockey. And what about those monster B-stings? Hard to ignore.

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06-17-2013, 10:01 AM
  #656
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I wish there were more of Subban's defensive plays in his highlight reels.. Maybe How do you like me now part 2 with the Norris could be made

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06-17-2013, 10:06 AM
  #657
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
The annoying thing:

Knock on Karlsson - can't play D (still, people were like, cool, whatevs, he has cool twit pics)

Knock on Subban - can't play D (except that he's amongst the BEST defenseman defensively in addition to his offensive prowess)

Not that I didn't expect this, just that it's as if people just don't watch hockey. And what about those monster B-stings? Hard to ignore.
That's what haters are. Don't expect them to change. There's no way anybody can say PK is weak defensively coming from a neutral point. Also, a lot of people have their opinions influenced by the media. So if all they do is listen to PJ Stock for instance, don't watch the Habs all that much, and for some reason actually respect his opinion, then they will believe whatever he says.

But hey, don't be surprised by this. Some of our own fans had doubts about him just back in January and they go out of their way still today to defend the bridge deal. So don't be surprised if other fans who probably don't even watch the Habs just spit out crap.

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06-17-2013, 10:23 AM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's what haters are. Don't expect them to change. There's no way anybody can say PK is weak defensively coming from a neutral point. Also, a lot of people have their opinions influenced by the media. So if all they do is listen to PJ Stock for instance, don't watch the Habs all that much, and for some reason actually respect his opinion, then they will believe whatever he says.

But hey, don't be surprised by this. Some of our own fans had doubts about him just back in January and they go out of their way still today to defend the bridge deal. So don't be surprised if other fans who probably don't even watch the Habs just spit out crap.
I know you've written quite a few posts on your opposition to the bridge deal and apologies if you've addressed this already, but wouldn't you agree that the bridge deal had as much to do with the cap situation then it did with the Habs presumed lack of belief in Subban?

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06-17-2013, 10:26 AM
  #659
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Because he's classless and he dives a lot.
easy cop out IMO

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06-17-2013, 10:27 AM
  #660
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easy cop out IMO
I think that guy has a point, Chara does dive a lot, especially now that he's approaching the twilight of his career.

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06-17-2013, 10:29 AM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Mover View Post
Because he's classless and he dives a lot.
who? Marchand? Yup. This could include Chara too....actually anyone who has ever played hockey....ever

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06-17-2013, 10:34 AM
  #662
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
who? Marchand? Yup. This could include Chara too....actually anyone who has ever played hockey....ever
That's what Subban haters say. I've never said that, guys. I'm just using their own words.

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06-17-2013, 10:41 AM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Mover View Post
That's what Subban haters say. I've never said that, guys. I'm just using their own words.
they do say alot o stupid junk....and ignore the obvious response that I had there. Chara dives and is dirty and classless at times too (yet he has a Norris), anybody who says their favorite team/player is never dirty or ever dives really need to take off the rose coloured glasses....every team every player do everything they can to get any edge possible.


But as you say, they are haters, and the fact that a high energy/ high profile guy whit an obvious joie de vivre plays for the Habs just makes it that much worse for them....hense my troll avatar

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06-17-2013, 10:51 AM
  #664
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I know you've written quite a few posts on your opposition to the bridge deal and apologies if you've addressed this already, but wouldn't you agree that the bridge deal had as much to do with the cap situation then it did with the Habs presumed lack of belief in Subban?
If we didn't have any info on the matter, then yea, but with all that we know, I don't think it had much to do with it.

We've heard Bergevin say that he needed to see things from PK, we've heard Therrien say that PK could become a great Dman, they questioned his leadership and maturity, and then there's the fact Bergevin held him out for the start of the season until PK finally agreed to a deal that had him make just 875K more than Emelin, one million less than Gorges, despite being our #1 Dman for almost two years.

Also, if this was a cap thing and not a ''we're not convinced on PK'' issue, then locking him up long term in order to save cash over the longer haul because you know (seeing how it has nothing to do with not being convinced that he'll become one of the better Dman of the league) chances are he'll cost you a lot more later.

We're not talking about a 6M dollar difference either. PK's cap is 2.875, I seriously doubt he was demanding for anything more than double that, and possibly even less than 2M more. So, very manageable cap wise.

Playing hard ball with your best player in order to save a couple million over the cap for 2 years when you know he'll cost you a lot more after isn't a smart thing to me.
The cap was not dropping until next season anyways, Habs had already bought out Gomez, they knew they were buying out Kaberle. There were no rush to re-sign guys like DD-Bouillon to extensions. It doesn't make sense that this was a cap issue. We could have easily handled our way around it.

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06-17-2013, 11:02 AM
  #665
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
If we didn't have any info on the matter, then yea, but with all that we know, I don't think it had much to do with it.

We've heard Bergevin say that he needed to see things from PK, we've heard Therrien say that PK could become a great Dman, they questioned his leadership and maturity, and then there's the fact Bergevin held him out for the start of the season until PK finally agreed to a deal that had him make just 875K more than Emelin, one million less than Gorges, despite being our #1 Dman for almost two years.

Also, if this was a cap thing and not a ''we're not convinced on PK'' issue, then locking him up long term in order to save cash over the longer haul because you know (seeing how it has nothing to do with not being convinced that he'll become one of the better Dman of the league) chances are he'll cost you a lot more later.

We're not talking about a 6M dollar difference either. PK's cap is 2.875, I seriously doubt he was demanding for anything more than double that, and possibly even less than 2M more. So, very manageable cap wise.

Playing hard ball with your best player in order to save a couple million over the cap for 2 years when you know he'll cost you a lot more after isn't a smart thing to me.
The cap was not dropping until next season anyways, Habs had already bought out Gomez, they knew they were buying out Kaberle. There were no rush to re-sign guys like DD-Bouillon to extensions. It doesn't make sense that this was a cap issue. We could have easily handled our way around it.
yeah, some good points in here...

I'm ambivalent to the whole situation really, I think it was poorly managed from an optics point of view personally. But I'd like the think the Habs knew the talent they had in Subban and were well aware that this might end up costing them more in the long term.

You have to remember, neither Bergevin nor Therrien really knew PK...it's one thing to notice the talent on the ice and project, it's a whole other to know the person on a personal level.

There are so many differing opinions on Subban as a person...I think it's not until you sit down with him and get to know him that you really understand the type of person he is.

Yeah, it'll end up costing them more in the long run...but I think that's a price they'll be more than willing to pay

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06-17-2013, 11:18 AM
  #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
I'd love to know how Huberdeau deserves the Calder over Gallagher or even Brodin for that matter.

He didn't do much and every game I saw him he looked like your average pro, which is good for a rookie but he didn't stand out. Almost everyone was talking about Gallagher all year for his heart, hard work, scoring, impact on games and character. Huberdeau will obviously be the better player in the long run but Gally deserves the Calder, he was unbelievable for the club this year.
Huberdeau had 3 more points on an obviously much weaker team (15th place anyone?)

I am not ******** over Hubs winning the Calder. Gallagher didn't get 2nd place by much. No big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post


@JohnBorukCSN:
Because there's very little PK in PK Subban's game, he shouldn't even be considered as the league's top defenseman.

https://twitter.com/johnborukcsn/sta...71672538558465
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Pace was:
  • Subban: 74 points
  • Markov: 58 points
  • Diaz: 50 points
  • Emelin: 26 points
  • Gorges: 15 points
  • Bouillon: 15 points
Now PP given to Diaz ended up with PK but expecting 35 points from Diaz certainly possible. This would give us three d-men in top-30.
In the last three years, 35 points was at worst 37th.

These numbers are pretty impressive.
Only player with minus is Markov with -9 (and Weber with -1).

I am not so sure we should do so many changes in our defense.
We may need one more piece and it could very well be Tinordi.
John Boruk just sounds like an ignorant wannabe sports analyst. I wonder who his favourite team is and wondering if there isn't any hint of anti-homerism (when the guy who wasn't on your favourite team won a trophy instead of the guy on your team).

We need a top 4 very good defensive player. Gorges, if he plays better next year, can be that guy. In our bottom 6, we need a crease clearing defensive DMAN (Tinords) and someone else to round out the bottom 6 (Emelin/Diaz/Bouillion)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Nice having the best defenseman in the league. **** you Ottawa. Proud of Subban, he's paid his dues and made the organization proud.

Also a huge **** you to the people that treated this young man without class and felt the need to run him down at any opportunity.


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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Everybody laughed at me when I said P.K. would be as good as any other D in the league ... When will people learn to listen to me?

Now I just need Eller to become a 60 points 2-way player, Lebust to make the Nhl as a significant player and Beaulieu to develop into a Letang like player and I'll be KING.
My brother has often said and hoped that Lars can become a poor man's Henrik Sedin (which I don't think is a bad thing to hope for). A guy who will be a #2 two-way player, put up at least 50 points and play 1st PK, 2nd PP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
PK Subban keeps trolling the miserable haters.

And to those who wished MB signed him at a discount. Hats off to PK for rising to the challenge. MB will gladly pay him whatever he's worth. Assuming he signed his 5-year contract, if PK had proven to be Norris caliber, MB and PK would have agreed to renegotiate the hypothetical long-term contract anyway. Having a star player at a discount long-term is stupid because it would have meant the head office has lack of respect towards an important player -- and consequently, the said player wouldn't be really happy playing for such organization.
Listen people, instead of having PK for 5 years at minimum 5.5 million/year plus guaranteed, we'll have PK for 2 years at 2.875/year and another 8 years at 6.5-7.5/year.

That's the difference. Knowing for a fact that he is worth a max contract versus giving him a few less years and letting him have his 5.5 million/year when he hasn't REALLY proved that he deserves that much. Now that he has proved that he deserves all that AND more, I have no issue with MB finally giving him a max contract.

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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I'd also love to have him but he's a dirty POS who nearly murdered another player on the ice and then claimed he didn't know what he was doing. **** him, hope his decline is slow and painful.
Don't you mean quick and painful. I'd rather have Chara becoming immediately worse like right now then slowly and progressively worse over the last years of his career. Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's why I laugh when people criticize Timmins despite being the man that drafted the most player that made it to the NHL, because he didn't draft any superstar (other than guys like PK of course). People don't realize how difficult it is to draft.
Agreed. The 2007 draft was by far one of our best drafts in years.

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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
they do say alot o stupid junk....and ignore the obvious response that I had there. Chara dives and is dirty and classless at times too (yet he has a Norris), anybody who says their favorite team/player is never dirty or ever dives really need to take off the rose coloured glasses....every team every player do everything they can to get any edge possible.


But as you say, they are haters, and the fact that a high energy/ high profile guy whit an obvious joie de vivre plays for the Habs just makes it that much worse for them....hense my troll avatar
Everyone dives in the NHL, some do it more than others, but everyone does it to get calls, etc.

Haters gonna hate.

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06-17-2013, 11:25 AM
  #667
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yeah, some good points in here...

I'm ambivalent to the whole situation really, I think it was poorly managed from an optics point of view personally. But I'd like the think the Habs knew the talent they had in Subban and were well aware that this might end up costing them more in the long term.

You have to remember, neither Bergevin nor Therrien really knew PK...it's one thing to notice the talent on the ice and project, it's a whole other to know the person on a personal level.

There are so many differing opinions on Subban as a person...I think it's not until you sit down with him and get to know him that you really understand the type of person he is.

Yeah, it'll end up costing them more in the long run...but I think that's a price they'll be more than willing to pay
They didn't really know Price or MaxPac either, they had no issues extending them to longer deals. Yes, I'm aware that they weren't coming off their ELC, but still, if this was more a ''we need to get to know our players before committing to them'' thing, then it doesn't add up, especially not with Price when question marks around him have been present for a while.

You're right, there's a lot of different opinions of PK out there, but his talent was/is undeniable. I don't think you need much research done to find out about his work ethic either.

In any event, you will never lock up a player coming out of an ELC deal without having any risk involved. That's the reason why you can get them at a cheaper price.
What you need to assess is whether or not the risk is worth gambling on, and to me PK was as sure a dman ''prospect'' can be, so no question about it we should have locked him up long term.

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06-17-2013, 11:31 AM
  #668
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
They didn't really know Price or MaxPac either, they had no issues extending them to longer deals. Yes, I'm aware that they weren't coming off their ELC, but still, if this was more a ''we need to get to know our players before committing to them'' thing, then it doesn't add up, especially not with Price when question marks around him have been present for a while.

You're right, there's a lot of different opinions of PK out there, but his talent was/is undeniable. I don't think you need much research done to find out about his work ethic either.

In any event, you will never lock up a player coming out of an ELC deal without having any risk involved. That's the reason why you can get them at a cheaper price.
What you need to assess is whether or not the risk is worth gambling on, and to me PK was as sure a dman ''prospect'' can be, so no question about it we should have locked him up long term.
Same here...and agree 100%

But as long as the end game ends up being a long term contract. I really couldn't careless, whether it'll cost the Habs 2-3M more annually, that's Bergevin's problem to sort out.

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06-17-2013, 11:40 AM
  #669
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Point being is that PK will get a Norris worthy Cap hit, which will demand him to be norris-like year in year out (by the fans and by the management, and the habs "leadership" group to a certain extent). Which most likely won't be the case.
People care about what he brings, but seems like fans/media/managment are more concerned with his "off ice" attitude (that was the premise of last negotiations. it wasn't really about what he brings to the ice, but HOW he brings it. lol), and his triple low five then his ability to come in as a rookie and hold #1 D spot for 2 straight years with no sweat.

Having a "average" (something like a under 10 goals, 30 points season, people will only look at production at end of the year) year at 6.5 - 7.5 mil will get him crucified in this city and with his "attitude" (extremely positive, confident and to certain extent arrogant attitude; attitude of a winner)

He deserves it, no doubt, but he deserved it last year at 5mil. Guess that's what you get when you "really really want to make sure", and random noise from the "leadership" group who must feel like a million dollars right now...

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06-17-2013, 11:47 AM
  #670
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Same here...and agree 100%

But as long as the end game ends up being a long term contract. I really couldn't careless, whether it'll cost the Habs 2-3M more annually, that's Bergevin's problem to sort out.
Well yes, so long that PK is signed, it's all good. But you brought up the possibility it may be cap related, which I don't think it was.

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06-17-2013, 11:52 AM
  #671
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Same here...and agree 100%

But as long as the end game ends up being a long term contract. I really couldn't careless, whether it'll cost the Habs 2-3M more annually, that's Bergevin's problem to sort out.
I think it had more to do with the more veteran players on the club getting the 2yr bridge deal and MB wanting to keep to that. I know that at my job, I had to deal with petty things to earn my way up, and seeing some younger guys getting a "free ride" so to speak to my level without paying the same dues does make it more difficult to keep a good team atmosphere (and I'm in the military). So I can see them using it as a tool not only to have him "earn his money" down the road but also as a tool to keep the room even, showing management has their backs and treats everyone the same. I think that can help in the long run.

Granted, it will end up costing the team more (6-7M instead of 5M....depending on the kind of discount PK is willing to allow), but if Subban keeps this up, it's a happy problem to have isn't it.

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06-17-2013, 11:54 AM
  #672
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well yes, so long that PK is signed, it's all good. But you brought up the possibility it may be cap related, which I don't think it was.
Let's just say, I'd like to think that's what it was...and it was less about the nonsense regarding his attitude (which no one can ever pinpoint, just nuance)

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06-17-2013, 12:10 PM
  #673
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well deserved, subban is a stud, you guys are lucky to have him, would move anyone on the bruins for him to be honest...in a minority there, but subban is a franchise dman.

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06-17-2013, 12:48 PM
  #674
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I'm so happy he won. Maybe now the haters and rumor mongers will stop. He's our franchise player and he's going to get the money he deserves.

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06-17-2013, 01:07 PM
  #675
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From the "Value of: Subban" thread:

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Originally Posted by 96 View Post
Cousins + 2nd from the Flyers. Powerplay specialist who can't play defense is not what we need.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1448719

I don't even...

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