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2013 Draft Part II: All Aboard the Nichushkin Train

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Old
06-16-2013, 06:58 PM
  #476
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Originally Posted by GhostofS16 View Post
Who is hell bent on drafting a "NHL ready" prospect: Jim Rutherford or 99% of you guys?
The thing with NHL ready prospects, is that if they are NHL ready at 18, they're less likely to be a complete bust?

Once you add the caveat, "He just needs to ..., then he'll be a star in the NHL", you have to worry that they'll never ... .

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06-16-2013, 08:36 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by GhostofS16 View Post
Who is hell bent on drafting a "NHL ready" prospect: Jim Rutherford or 99% of you guys?
Jr obviously. We just accept that's what's going to happen.

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06-16-2013, 09:51 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
I've missed you.
Yeah, right back atcha. I'm not going to be around much to rain on the board's parade this year, but I'll put it this way. I don't think JR is the guy to get us out of this mess. If he was, something about his thinking would have to have changed, and I'm virtually certain he's far too hard-headed to do that. He still thinks he knows what he's doing, and he's just getting bad breaks or something. I'm sure the thought that *he* may be the problem hasn't even entered his mind. But as long as he's around, he's going to do exactly what he's always done, and the Canes will do exactly as they have done. Until something changes, everything will be the same.

So instead of our usual dance, I've decided to stop wasting my time posting the same stuff over and over to the same people who don't want to believe it's the same stuff. Like watching Hurricanes hockey, it just isn't fun anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens1Canes2 View Post
So your angle is to criticize for not moving out of the top 5 in a supposedly loaded draft year. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were being negative for the sake of negativity.

Oh wait, I do know better.
That's fine, I'm overly negative. I get it. But just how many seasons do we have to pi$$ away with JR calling the shots to realize that if we're going to make any real effort to compete in the salary cap world -- drafting and developing and trading for players on the upside of their career -- we're going to have to do it with a new GM.

We just can't keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.

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Old
06-16-2013, 11:40 PM
  #479
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I'm pretty sure most of us have realized this organization should start looking for a new GM sooner rather than later.

However, most of us have also accepted the obvious: JR's not going anywhere until he's ready to retire. He's too buddy-buddy with Karmanos, and he's partial owner of the team.

If you want to pull a Sisyphus and keep pushing that rock, don't let us stop you.

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Old
06-17-2013, 06:14 AM
  #480
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I'm still of the position that I don't see JR taking Nichushkin no matter what. If he stays at #5, my guess at who he'll take (if the first 4 goes as planned), is Monahan--> Lindholm--> Defenseman---> Nichushkin.

Even if he trades down, I dont' see him grabbing Nichushkin. I could see a scenario where he trades down and get's a young defenseman coming back (Gormley? Daley?), then uses the pick to take Nurse (or Ristolainen or Zadarov).

A couple years down the road, the defense could have Faulk, Daley/Gormley, Nurse, Pitkanen/Gleason, Murphy, and whoever works out best from Biega/Harrison/Bellemore/Levi/or future picks in the 2nd round. Throw in the eventual trade/signing of Marc Staal at some point in the future, and it actually might look like a respectable defense. Of course, optimism abounds this time of year when all prospects/picks reach their full potential.

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06-17-2013, 07:19 AM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
If you want to pull a Sisyphus and keep pushing that rock, don't let us stop you.
Nice.

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06-17-2013, 12:47 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
Jr obviously. We just accept that's what's going to happen.
I actually read some of the comments on the 'net from Canes personnel after I my last comment. Yikes. Rutherford will never learn his lesson. This team should really look at drafting possible impact defense-men and give them time to develop.

Dismissing some comments made in another thread from some posters here (might have been this thread, actually), I've seen enough video on Darnell Nurse to come to the conclusion his potential should not be ignored. With that said, if Rutherford actually bother to use his head he could probably trade the 5th overall and pick up multiple picks in order to pickup some D prospects. He really needs to see 3 to 5 years down the road. He really needs to look at the big picture: "hey, I'm not going to lose my job anytime soon, why the deuces do I continue to try and Band-Aid fix this team?"


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Old
06-17-2013, 12:56 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by GhostofS16 View Post
This team should really look at drafting possible impact defensemen and give them time to develop.
You mean like what they're doing with Ryan Murphy?

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Old
06-17-2013, 01:03 PM
  #484
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Drafting for need over best player available is how you end up with a Thomas Hickey situation. Or, what happens if he trades down and the guy(s) he wants is gone? Sure he's got assets, but he went from having an impact player to perhaps another Tim Gleason. Yay.

The draft is an inexact science, and JR has done his best to mess it up most of the time he's had a chance. It's really hard to mess up this top 5 if he picks from the window of forwards we've been discussing. That's why I'd support moving to 7, but not really beyond that unless it's an incredible deal.

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06-17-2013, 01:11 PM
  #485
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Remember when the Trail Blazer drafted Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan because they needed a center? Or when they also drafted Greg Oden over Kevin Durant for the same reason?

How'd that work out?

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Old
06-17-2013, 01:16 PM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
Yeah, right back atcha. I'm not going to be around much to rain on the board's parade this year, but I'll put it this way. I don't think JR is the guy to get us out of this mess. If he was, something about his thinking would have to have changed, and I'm virtually certain he's far too hard-headed to do that. He still thinks he knows what he's doing, and he's just getting bad breaks or something. I'm sure the thought that *he* may be the problem hasn't even entered his mind. But as long as he's around, he's going to do exactly what he's always done, and the Canes will do exactly as they have done. Until something changes, everything will be the same.

So instead of our usual dance, I've decided to stop wasting my time posting the same stuff over and over to the same people who don't want to believe it's the same stuff. Like watching Hurricanes hockey, it just isn't fun anymore.



That's fine, I'm overly negative. I get it. But just how many seasons do we have to pi$$ away with JR calling the shots to realize that if we're going to make any real effort to compete in the salary cap world -- drafting and developing and trading for players on the upside of their career -- we're going to have to do it with a new GM.

We just can't keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.
But it's still the 2013 season. JR can't do anything yet. And it's not like he's been sitting on his hands lately. He went out and got Semin, Staal's long-lost winger that we've been clamoring about for years. He went out and made a ballsy trade to fix the 2nd line center position, even though it was at the cost of the 3rd line center, but that's easier to replace.

I would have liked for him to fix the defense too, and who knows if reports are true that he was in on Suter, but he was never luring him away from Nashville or Minnesota anyway. But that's the thing about defensemen--they're always in high demand and short supply. Probably why everyone's talking about buyout candidates. No one else on the market is going to be affordable or worth it.

If JR can trade down to 7, pick up an extra 2nd, grab Lindholm/Monahan/Nichushkin at 7, Fucale and a defenseman in the 2nd and jettison McBain for a more stay-at-home guy, I'll consider this offseason a success. Getting rid of Pitkanen/Gleason/Ruutu isn't happening for three different reasons.

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Old
06-17-2013, 01:17 PM
  #487
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From Elliotte Friedman's 30 thoughts:

Quote:
That brings us to Carolina, which have the No. 5 spot. Other execs believe Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford is ready to deal. The bar is raised for Carolina...

There will be a very good player available in the No. 5 spot, but would a Top 4 defenceman with experience and term remaining be better for Carolina?

If you have one and a first-round pick, there is a belief you can get to that spot. Edmonton, selecting seventh overall, had discussions with the Hurricanes, but it sounds like those talks cooled.

Things can -- and probably will -- change over the next couple of weeks, but if you're outside the Top 5, Carolina is your most realistic target for now.
Also according to Michael Smith, JR doesn't want to drop "out of the top 8."

Another tidbit about trading:

Quote:
1. Another note about the Hurricanes. Word is that "some players who were previously untouchable may no longer be untouchable," according to one source. Apparently, this does not include anyone with the last name Staal. It is going to be a wild summer across the NHL.
Skinner for Marc Staal e5

In all seriousness, if the source is right, I'd imagine the Staals, Ward, and Faulk are the only true untouchables. Hope JR is serious about fixing the defense.

EDIT: Forgot the link to the article.

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Old
06-17-2013, 01:22 PM
  #488
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I know you were being facetious, but didn't Marc only play 1 playoff game? I'd be wary about making any play for him until he proves he's the same player on the ice. Also, the Rangers are going to be divisional rivals next year so I doubt we'll see a big trade between the two.

I'm guessing if anything goes down it will be with a team out West.

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Old
06-17-2013, 01:26 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
I know you were being facetious, but didn't Marc only play 1 playoff game? I'd be wary about making any play for him until he proves he's the same player on the ice. Also, the Rangers are going to be divisional rivals next year so I doubt we'll see a big trade between the two.

I'm guessing if anything goes down it will be with a team out West.
For sure. I'm more content waiting until he's an UFA, seeing how he recovers the next couple season, and taking our chances there. I also get the sense Marc is the brother who would rather not team up with the others, but that's just an unfounded guess.

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Old
06-17-2013, 01:32 PM
  #490
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I can't see JR drafting for how a player might be in the future. These next couple years are the last hurrah for a good portion of our group (Eric, Semin, Gleason, Ward, Pitkanen) and after that, they'll reach that "veteran age" where their skills will be declining annually.

Likewise, for players like Jordan, Skinner and Faulk, the next couple years should be the years where they're entering their prime.

The key for JR is to use these next couple years for a Cup run or two. And not even making the playoffs last year obviously shortened that window.

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06-17-2013, 01:38 PM
  #491
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Pitkanen, Ruutu, and Gleason probably the "untouchables" able to be moved now. Everybody goes big and says Skinner... I just doubt that happens. We have to remember that we're working with JR's list of untouchables and not our own.

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Old
06-17-2013, 01:43 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
Pitkanen, Ruutu, and Gleason probably the "untouchables" able to be moved now. Everybody goes big and says Skinner... I just doubt that happens. We have to remember that we're working with JR's list of untouchables and not our own.
Bingo, wouldn't be surprised if Dalpe is in there too.

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Old
06-17-2013, 01:46 PM
  #493
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Bingo, wouldn't be surprised if Dalpe is in there too.
Dalpe is going to have to clear waivers to go down to the AHL, which is likely to happen. I could see us losing him in the same way we lost Boychuk. I just don't think he has anything resembling trade value at this point in time. Every year players as good or better hit the wire.

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06-17-2013, 01:57 PM
  #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
Pitkanen, Ruutu, and Gleason probably the "untouchables" able to be moved now. Everybody goes big and says Skinner... I just doubt that happens. We have to remember that we're working with JR's list of untouchables and not our own.
Getting rid of Pitkanen would be selling low on him. How much value can he have after having two separate injuries in a shortened season, one of which that might keep him out until training camp. His contract status could be alluring to teams because it's cheap, but then he's a UFA after one year. I just don't see him bringing the type of return that they'd need to justify getting rid of him.

Similar story on Ruutu, but with the added bonus of having a NMC. You're also making the team softer as a whole, unless you're getting back a defenseman capable of hitting. But again, I don't know if Ruutu has enough value that could bring a good enough player in return.

Gleason has a NMC for one more year IIRC, so that again complicates things. I do think he has the most value. He's been pretty healthy the last 3 years missing a total of 6 games. His contract is probably below market value and he's signed for awhile. But again, trading him makes the team softer.

I know neither Ruutu or Gleason are the tough, hard-hitting players they used to be, but when you take a team like Carolina, even those guys can make them a bit tougher to play against.

Dalpe was inquired about at the deadline and JR said he wasn't available. I don't see him bringing much back, but he could be a decent throw-in to some deal.

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06-17-2013, 02:21 PM
  #495
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Remember when the Trail Blazer drafted Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan because they needed a center? Or when they also drafted Greg Oden over Kevin Durant for the same reason?

How'd that work out?
Ya cut me deep, Shrek.

Sincerely,
former Blazers fan

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Old
06-17-2013, 02:46 PM
  #496
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Yotes fan back in peace and an initial offer for the 5th:

Gormley/Michalek + 12th for the 5th + Justin Peters

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06-17-2013, 03:22 PM
  #497
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That was offered a few weeks ago and I think most on here said they'd be happy with it. Myself, I think that's too far to trade down, and I think JR thinks the same. Getting rid of Peters would be nice, but it really only saves them about 500k. I don't think it's really that big of a deal.

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06-17-2013, 03:33 PM
  #498
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You mean like what they're doing with Ryan Murphy?
One player with a questionable career trajectory, isn't what I consider a "prospect pool of defensemen". Before someone bothers, Jordan and Bellemore isn't exactly going to cut it neither. Canes pool of D prospects is very shallow at the moment.

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06-17-2013, 03:35 PM
  #499
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I know Peters has zero to even negative value for you guys, still just wanted to ask because I think he can get molded into a decent goaltender under Sean Burke - I see Mike Smith elements with his size/athleticism and his puckhandling.

5 to 12 is a huge drop, and FWIW most Yotes fans are loathe to give up Gormley and the 12th just to move up. But our needs for a franchise center and existing blueline talent make it justifiable for me. Gormley is close to NHL-ready, much more so than anyone in this draft outside of Jones and maybe RR. And the two-way talent is there. I don't think Calgary, Edmonton, Buffalo, or NJ would be willing to give up a young d-man of equal caliber just to move up just a few spots.

EDIT: We can certainly consider taking on McBain as well if that would seal the deal, although we have next to zero need for him.


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06-17-2013, 03:38 PM
  #500
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-the-1st-round

Another potential idea involves a package deal with the fifth pick and oft-dangled defenseman Jamie McBain in exchange for a later first-round pick and a solid top-four NHL blueliner. Would Dallas (10th pick) be willing to part with Jamie Oleksiak, Phoenix (12th pick) with Keith Yandle or Winnipeg (13th pick) with Zach Bogosian for that return? It's also certainly a possibility.

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