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Does Hiring Vigneault Mean a Reprieve for Brad Richards?

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Old
06-16-2013, 09:13 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
How many players are even over 33 in the league? Out of how many?
Well I cant figure a way to quickly find that info, but I went through the two teams currently in the finals and there is 8 players 33 or older. 5 on Boston, 3 on the Hawks.

33 is not that old.

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06-17-2013, 01:52 AM
  #77
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Given the situation with Richards' contract, it makes perfect sense to buy him out now. However, there is one more thing to think about: does this organization decide to keep him next season because they decide that's the best way to winning a Stanley Cup?

Mind you, I'm not arguing that I want to keep him. I'm wondering if the organization is willing to take the risk and keep him because more than anything else, Sather wants that ring.

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06-17-2013, 02:19 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
How many players are even over 33 in the league? Out of how many?
119 out of 839 players (14.2%) are currently 33+ http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...birthDate&pg=1


Last edited by Carlos Ranger: 06-17-2013 at 02:25 AM.
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06-17-2013, 05:57 AM
  #79
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The NHL becomes a younger and younger league each season.

It was sad watching Richards try to keep up with the pace in the playoffs. There was one sequence in the playoffs where Richards looked like he was skipping rope on skates. There are better skaters skating at Bryant Park during the winter than Richards. He has mastered the no look backhand pass. What is that?

Big mistake if Richards isn't an amnesty buyout 48 hours after the finals end. They have until July 4. League year begins on July 5. Put the player on waivers. Clear waivers. Buy him out. Takes 24 hours. Takes a little longer with Richards and his NMC. The Rangers have to inform him. Like Drury. He can't reject it. Get rid of him.

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06-17-2013, 06:57 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Green Blob View Post
Well that's the question.

I say it is, i'm willing to gamble cause I think the risk is low and the reward could be high.

But I completely understand people who aren't willing to risk it and want to buy him out this summer.
If we are going to buy him out in 2014 no matter what he does next year, then why wait? Unless we are winning the cup next year, there is no reward high enough to justify taking that risk.

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06-17-2013, 07:08 AM
  #81
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11.8 Individually Negotiated Limitations on Player Movement.

Quote:
(c)A no-move clause may prevent the involuntary relocation of a Player, whether by Trade, Loan or Waiver claim. A no-move clause, however, may not restrict the Club's Buy-Out and termination rights as set forth in this Agreement. Prior to exercising its Ordinary Course Buy-Out rights pursuant to Paragraph 13 of the SPC hereof, the Club shall, in writing in accordance with the notice provisions in Exhibit 3 hereof, provide the Player with the option of electing to be placed on Waivers. The Player will have twenty-four (24) hours from the time he receives such notice to accept or reject that option at his sole discretion, and shall so inform the Club in writing, in accordance with the notice provisions in Exhibit 3 hereof, within such twenty- four (24) hour period. If the Player does not timely accept or reject that option, it will be deemed rejected.
Richards can reject being placed on waivers. Can't reject the buyout.

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06-17-2013, 07:10 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
If we are going to buy him out in 2014 no matter what he does next year, then why wait? Unless we are winning the cup next year, there is no reward high enough to justify taking that risk.
You can make the argument about the $6,666,667 spent on other players will make the Rangers a more viable contender to win than keeping Richards.

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06-17-2013, 07:13 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by jexmex View Post
119 out of 839 players (14.2%) are currently 33+ http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...birthDate&pg=1
839 players? There is only 630 active players in the NHL at one given time. NHL.com list everyone who has played 1 single game which is mostly younger players.

So that % is about 18%.

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06-17-2013, 07:15 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
You can make the argument about the $6,666,667 spent on other players will make the Rangers a more viable contender to win than keeping Richards.
Who are we going to spend that money on in the market this season? Are we going to give Riberio 5M?

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06-17-2013, 07:33 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Green Blob View Post
Who are we going to spend that money on in the market this season? Are we going to give Riberio 5M?
Why do you have to spend it all this summer? Players will be available in trades this summer. During the season. At the deadline.

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06-17-2013, 07:36 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Green Blob View Post
Who are we going to spend that money on in the market this season? Are we going to give Riberio 5M?
The UFA market is not the be all and end all. There are trades as well and having cap space means there are more options in that direction. Richards isn't cutting it. Last year he looked like an old man. He had great difficulty keeping pace. That's a bad sign. Cap space as well means we'll have a better chance of keeping someone like McDonagh if some other team like Philadelphia gets him to sign a big offer sheet.

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06-17-2013, 08:09 AM
  #87
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Thats a given, will it be this year or next year is the other question.
Initially I was in the same mindset as you. Richards would be provided both this year and this years PO's along with next season and next season's PO's to show SOMETHING

However as the summer moves along, I don't see the reward being greater than the risk.

We have a declining player. His PPG average has declined each of the last 4 straight seasons. I'm not as concerned about the injuries as some other are, but they cannot be dismissed.

He's slow and seems like he's getting slower. He's not a good puck possession player. We have had 2 elite level snipers placed on his wing and he's not gotten them going, nor have they him.

This is Redden all over with the exception that Richards can still provide something, just not worth the 6.6 cap hit nor is he worth the damaging cap recapture hit we would take should he call it a career a year or two early.

The risk that he gets hurt and we cannot buy him out far outweighs the reward of a 70 point season that the last 4 seasons have shown me he is not going to produce anyway.

He's gotta go and it's got to be this summer.

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06-17-2013, 08:26 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Green Blob View Post
Who are we going to spend that money on in the market this season? Are we going to give Riberio 5M?
If you have alot of cap room you can often sign players to good contracts. Its when you are forced to cut down on years to save 250k one season that you end up loosing young good players for nothing down the road.

Its maybe not the most convincing argument, but we lost Nylander, Avery and had to give Rozsival the big buck because we where really cheap with them the first and second go around.

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06-17-2013, 08:47 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Initially I was in the same mindset as you. Richards would be provided both this year and this years PO's along with next season and next season's PO's to show SOMETHING

However as the summer moves along, I don't see the reward being greater than the risk.

We have a declining player. His PPG average has declined each of the last 4 straight seasons. I'm not as concerned about the injuries as some other are, but they cannot be dismissed.

He's slow and seems like he's getting slower. He's not a good puck possession player. We have had 2 elite level snipers placed on his wing and he's not gotten them going, nor have they him.

This is Redden all over with the exception that Richards can still provide something, just not worth the 6.6 cap hit nor is he worth the damaging cap recapture hit we would take should he call it a career a year or two early.

The risk that he gets hurt and we cannot buy him out far outweighs the reward of a 70 point season that the last 4 seasons have shown me he is not going to produce anyway.

He's gotta go and it's got to be this summer.
Nash isn't a sniper, let alone an elite one. The guy can't elevate the puck more than 6 inches generally, picking corners is not his game.

Now, goal scorer, yeah.

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06-17-2013, 09:19 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Green Blob View Post
Who are we going to spend that money on in the market this season? Are we going to give Riberio 5M?
Glen? That you?

Pocket the cap space and wait for the right opportunity.

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06-17-2013, 09:45 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Glen? That you?

Pocket the cap space and wait for the right opportunity.
Exactly.

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06-17-2013, 09:46 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
If you have alot of cap room you can often sign players to good contracts. Its when you are forced to cut down on years to save 250k one season that you end up loosing young good players for nothing down the road.

Its maybe not the most convincing argument, but we lost Nylander, Avery and had to give Rozsival the big buck because we where really cheap with them the first and second go around.
Exactly, give Stepan and McDonagh long deals in the $5-5.5M/year region (why not 8 years). They may be seen as unnecessarily expensive right now, but will in all likelihood be bargains down the road. Since we don't really have anything better to spend that cap space on, it is a good way to set us up for future success.

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06-17-2013, 09:52 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Exactly.
Full disclaimer here - I thought that Brad Richards was the right opportunity 2 years ago. So, I am in no way saying this is an easy approach.

But its been Sather's MO to get out of an albatross contract and immediately jump into another one. I hope that doesnt happen this summer.

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06-17-2013, 10:11 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Green Blob View Post
Who are we going to spend that money on in the market this season? Are we going to give Riberio 5M?
Can anyone comment on Ribero as a defensive player and face off man?

I love his vision and creativity. Seems like the type of player we thought we were getting in Richards. I think $5m per for Ribero would not be an over payment (depends on term of the deal).

I think I might be the only one on these boards not 100% sold on Brassard as a 2nd line center. His reputation in Columbus is very similar to what we saw here...Flashes of brilliance followed by periods of invisibility. While you can argue that he is maturing, I think you can just as easily argue that he was energized by new surroundings and a trip to the playoffs. I am not all convinced he is ready to be a consistent 60 pt player.

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06-17-2013, 10:26 AM
  #95
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In 2009,VAN acquired Ehrhoff for nothing. SJ was looking to shed salary. Ehrhoff gave VAN 2 good years before he left as a free agent. There will be players availble this summer. The cap is dropping. Compliance buyouts will help. Some teams could decide to trade a player. The Rangers have so many players up for contracts in the next 13 months. They have other needs to fill. That costs money.

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06-17-2013, 10:30 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Full disclaimer here - I thought that Brad Richards was the right opportunity 2 years ago. So, I am in no way saying this is an easy approach.

But its been Sather's MO to get out of an albatross contract and immediately jump into another one. I hope that doesnt happen this summer.
I'm hopeful that having the cap space to make some moves will entice Sather into staying out of the initial rush on FA's and make some shrewd moves. I think some solid names will become available with the buyouts, and some teams who aren't as well off financially might be inclined to trade some other players to get under the cap as well.

I think the risk of Richards hurting himself is too great to keep him for another year.

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06-17-2013, 01:15 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Green Blob View Post
839 players? There is only 630 active players in the NHL at one given time. NHL.com list everyone who has played 1 single game which is mostly younger players.

So that % is about 18%.
NHL.com will also list older players who are depth for their organization and don't always have spots on their NHL teams. The point, whether the number is 18 or 14, is that there aren't a lot. 119 rounds out to about 4 per team, roster or depth or otherwise.

The general age of all NHL players is 18-40. The ages 33-40 represent 34.78% of the potential active years players can have careers. Yet only 14-18% of them are actually making it to that age. Think about that for a second. More than 80% of NHLers don't have NHL careers past the age of 33. Yeah, there are some players who can make it that far. There are even fewer who are effective, high end offensive players. St Louis and Selanne and even Jagr are exceptions to the norm. For most players to have careers at those ages, they usually have to reinvent themselves. The guy that comes to mind is Mike Modano. For the last 5-6 years of his career, he was basically an elite 3rd liner. I'm not talking about his numbers, I'm talking about his style of play.

Brad Richards isn't aging well, in terms of on-ice ability. He's going to have to reinvent his game and sooner, not later. Whatever he reinvents his game into, it's not going to be worth a $6.67m cap hit. It certainly isn't going to be worth any cap recapture risk potentially faced. And if it is inevitable that you will use a compliance buyout on him, if that is in fact the plan, then you can't wait.

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06-17-2013, 04:43 PM
  #98
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Watch Richards shine under AV for a year... then after that, he'll suck, and AV will still keep playing him because he's a favourite for AV and will neglect to play rookies..


Sorry but once you get to know how AV coaches, you'll get frustrated..


I didn't mind him as a coach when he was here in Vancouver and I wasn't calling for his head, but it felt like a change was needed and AV was definitely not getting through to the players any longer



I wish AV the best of luck but his time was done in Vancouver.


Last edited by Apple Juice: 06-17-2013 at 04:53 PM.
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06-17-2013, 04:55 PM
  #99
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Watch Richards shine under AV for a year... then after that, he'll suck, and AV will still keep playing him because he's a favourite for AV and will neglect to play rookies..

Sorry but once you get to know how AV coaches, you'll get frustrated..

I didn't mind him as a coach when he was here in Vancouver and I wasn't calling for his head, but it felt like a change was needed and AV was definitely not getting through to the players any longer
I really do not see the ability on the Nuck's to be a great team. Vancouver with the roster they have, and not mention the injuries they had this season, just should not compete with Chi, Bos, Pitt and co to be honest.

They are atleast one elite forward and one elite D from competing.

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06-17-2013, 05:54 PM
  #100
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These a big boys playing out there, if seeing Brad Richards being scratched is a distraction to them then something is wrong.

Im not saying Torts was the reason he stunk for parts of the season, that was Richards. But he still put up respectable numbers in the season while slumping most of it. And I think the risk is worth the reward to let him play another season.

I think its more likely he bounces back than craps the bed again. Again he had 34 points in 46 games. The way some of you make it sound is if he had 5 points in 46 games. We arent talking about Clowe here.

These are humans "out there." If the Rangers make the bonehead move and keep Richards AND he struggles AND Richards gets benched it will be a season long distraction. Richards paded his numbers the last few weeks of the season. I also don't think 34 points in 46 games is "respectable" for someone making the money Richards does. He's being paid to be a playmaker and score.

Richards has been declining for 4 years....right? Explain how it's more likely he bounces back this year?

If Richards gets hurt and the Rangers can't buy him out it would set the franchise back years. It would mean we can't resign key players that actually matter.

I also don't get how you can wonder what Free Agent we will spend the money on. Why do we have to sign a free agent to replace Richards with Stepan and Brassard on the roster? That Richards money can be used towards resigning our own guys, add depth to the 3rd line, or kept for a trade deadline acquisition. The Rangers can improve the team just by buying Richards out. It's the better short and long term move.

Ironically i'd buy Richards out and sign Briere who at half the price would be worth the risk. If Richards was bought out by another team I'd sign HIM for half the price because he would be worth the risk. At Richards cap number AND production he is an anchor holding the team down.....

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