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Phaneuf 11th in Norris voting

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06-17-2013, 01:39 PM
  #76
Duffman955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KULEMINakajesus View Post
you can be decent at a lot of things and not good at anything in particular. Like that pinch in OT that lost us the game, getting man handeled in game 7 and going -2, -6 on the series...

Gunnarson was much better than phaneuf in the playoffs.

Dion's is fairly solid in the corners but above the goal line he's rather weak defensively, He's not very good on the powerplay, what value does he bring to this team that I'm missing?
His numbers would disagree with you.

He is our best defenseman in our own zone, he is our second best defenseman in the offensive zone (behind gardiner)

He is easily top 10 defenseman in the league this year, and your logic is to trade him because you think being good at everything isn't good enough.

Possibly one of the worst argument I have ever heard.

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06-17-2013, 01:43 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
I'd argue the weak link is the dependable partner for the top pairing that doesn't even exist.
Gunner is a quality partner for any of our D , before DP was reunited with him he struggled . When Gunner was out of the line up our entire D core struggled .

A true num 1 D can make up for a weaker partner , since DP can't he therefore isn't a legit num 1 .

Dion was named on only 10 out of 170 + ballots , hardly a ringing endorsement .

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06-17-2013, 01:52 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
I'm firmly in the Dion is a solid #1Dman camp, but I believe the shooting % refers to the % of SOG that go in, while Dion's big failing is missing the net entirely on his point shot a disturbingly large amount of time...
Phaneuf was 25th in missed shots this season with 41. A lot of top defensemen have more missed shots than him

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats

A lot of the same names on the top 30 list for the season prior.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats

The bad shooting by Phaneuf is a myth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
It's pretty simple - Doughty played a bigger role on a better team. He has much stiffer competition for ice time, but still played significantly more minutes than Pheneuf.

Doughty's defensive game is much better than Phaneuf's.
This image looks at players quality of competition and their offense zone starts. The higher you are, the harder the competition you face. The more to the left you are, the more often you start in the defensive zone.



I see that not only did Doughty play easier minutes than Phaneuf but nobody played tougher minutes than Phaneuf.

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06-17-2013, 01:54 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
His numbers would disagree with you.

He is our best defenseman in our own zone, he is our second best defenseman in the offensive zone (behind gardiner)

He is easily top 10 defenseman in the league this year, and your logic is to trade him because you think being good at everything isn't good enough.

Possibly one of the worst argument I have ever heard.
The only thing he's good at is his work in the corners.

How can you put so much stock into the norris vote is beyond me. Is Chris Kunitz the 16th most valuable player in the nhl? Pascal dupuis 23rd most valuable? Both players more valuable then Kessel....

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06-17-2013, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KULEMINakajesus View Post
The only thing he's good at is his work in the corners.

How can you put so much stock into the norris vote is beyond me. Is Chris Kunitz the 16th most valuable player in the nhl? Pascal dupuis 23rd most valuable? Both players more valuable then Kessel....
Lets compare Weber who is clearly a top 5 defenseman in the NHL

Points: Weber 28 Phaneuf 28

Goals: Weber 9 Phaneuf 9

TOI/G: Weber 25:55 Phaneuf 25:11

Phaneuf also faced higher QOC and let in a massive 1 more goal against than weber in the whole season. He also played with a worse partner and had a worse goalie.


Looking at these stats, Phaneuf is equal to Weber offensively and equal defensively.

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06-17-2013, 02:26 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Lets compare Weber who is clearly a top 5 defenseman in the NHL

Points: Weber 28 Phaneuf 28

Goals: Weber 9 Phaneuf 9

TOI/G: Weber 25:55 Phaneuf 25:11

Phaneuf also faced higher QOC and let in a massive 1 more goal against than weber in the whole season. He also played with a worse partner and had a worse goalie.


Looking at these stats, Phaneuf is equal to Weber offensively and equal defensively.
One player was on the 3rd worst team in the nhl, the other the ninth best...

What were there even strength goals against like? Can you link me to the stats?

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06-17-2013, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KULEMINakajesus View Post
One player was on the 3rd worst team in the nhl, the other the ninth best...

What were there even strength goals against like? Can you link me to the stats?
Cant find them right now, but I am sure Zeke will post in this thread. He will most likely provide links and a better analysis.

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06-17-2013, 02:29 PM
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The stats fad on this place gives me a headache, this isn't baseball people. Stats can lie and aren't always a direct representation of a player in hockey.

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06-17-2013, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KULEMINakajesus View Post
One player was on the 3rd worst team in the nhl, the other the ninth best...
What were there even strength goals against like? Can you link me to the stats?
What piece was missing from Weber's lineup this year? Would that not lead you to believe that if one guy can have team results without such a piece that if given such a piece, the results might be outstanding?

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06-17-2013, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Phaneuf was 25th in missed shots this season with 41. A lot of top defensemen have more missed shots than him

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats

A lot of the same names on the top 30 list for the season prior.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...tssPlayerStats

The bad shooting by Phaneuf is a myth.


Interesting finding. Looks like Dion got 68% of his shots in on goal this season, and 69% last season. This would actually place him better than average among his comparator group (other high volume dmen) in terms of accuracy.

Very surprising revelation to me, and I would imagine to many others on the board.

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06-17-2013, 02:33 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Lets compare Weber who is clearly a top 5 defenseman in the NHL

Points: Weber 28 Phaneuf 28

Goals: Weber 9 Phaneuf 9

TOI/G: Weber 25:55 Phaneuf 25:11

Phaneuf also faced higher QOC and let in a massive 1 more goal against than weber in the whole season. He also played with a worse partner and had a worse goalie.


Looking at these stats, Phaneuf is equal to Weber offensively and equal defensively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KULEMINakajesus View Post
One player was on the 3rd worst team in the nhl, the other the ninth best...

What were there even strength goals against like? Can you link me to the stats?
^^^^here's the links your looking for. 11 in norris voting, averaging 25 minutes a night on the ninth best team

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06-17-2013, 02:35 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
What piece was missing from Weber's lineup this year? Would that not lead you to believe that if one guy can have team results without such a piece that if given such a piece, the results might be outstanding?
Ryan Suter and money were missing from the Nashville line-up.

Losing an All-star dman and playing at the cap floor will have a negative effect on a hockey teams results.

With Suter in tow Nashville were a playoff team after losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs in 2011-12.

That doesn't change the Phaneuf verses Weber comparison, but it does answer your question.

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06-17-2013, 02:37 PM
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you cannot define a hockey player by stats. for the love of god strap on the skates before you talk about hockey.

Phaneuf is slow footed, has low hockey iq, stone hands, and below average first pass.

He IS NOT a #1 dman on a stanley cup winner, and the sooner you people understand that, the better off you'll be. There are 30 #1 C, 30 #1 D, 30 #1 goalies, etc. This does not mean there are 30 C's, D's, and goalies capable of leading their team to a cup.

If phaneuf was a 2nd/3rd dman on our roster, thats when we'll be contenders.

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06-17-2013, 02:38 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KULEMINakajesus View Post
One player was on the 3rd worst team in the nhl, the other the ninth best...

What were there even strength goals against like? Can you link me to the stats?
Taking away powerplay goals for and shorthanded goals against:
Phaneuf was on for 43 goals, on for 47 against.
Weber was on for 38 goals, on for 40 against.

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06-17-2013, 02:41 PM
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I don't understand why people have a hate on for Dion but I think the CBC is behind it. Healy, Simpson, Cherry....It's just too much stupid at once. The apocalypse is near

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06-17-2013, 02:41 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfio View Post
you cannot define a hockey player by stats. for the love of god strap on the skates before you talk about hockey.

Phaneuf is slow footed, has low hockey iq, stone hands, and below average first pass.

He IS NOT a #1 dman on a stanley cup winner, and the sooner you people understand that, the better off you'll be. There are 30 #1 C, 30 #1 D, 30 #1 goalies, etc. This does not mean there are 30 C's, D's, and goalies capable of leading their team to a cup.

If phaneuf was a 2nd/3rd dman on our roster, thats when we'll be contenders.
Exactly, If you honestly believe Shea Weber and Dion are on the same level I have serious doubts about your hockey intelligence.

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06-17-2013, 02:44 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Maccer View Post
Exactly, If you honestly believe Shea Weber and Dion are on the same level I have serious doubts about your hockey intelligence.
I know Weber is better even though, like most, I rarely if ever watch Nashville play.

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06-17-2013, 02:49 PM
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^^

In a few years, could possibly be even as soon as next year he won't be our number 1 d. He's going to slide down to 2-3 and if he has a massive un-moveable contract it will do more harm than good...

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06-17-2013, 03:44 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfio View Post
you cannot define a hockey player by stats. for the love of god strap on the skates before you talk about hockey.

Phaneuf is slow footed, has low hockey iq, stone hands, and below average first pass.

He IS NOT a #1 dman on a stanley cup winner, and the sooner you people understand that, the better off you'll be. There are 30 #1 C, 30 #1 D, 30 #1 goalies, etc. This does not mean there are 30 C's, D's, and goalies capable of leading their team to a cup.

If phaneuf was a 2nd/3rd dman on our roster, thats when we'll be contenders.
Well real hockey people seem to disagree with you.

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06-17-2013, 03:51 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
Interesting finding. Looks like Dion got 68% of his shots in on goal this season, and 69% last season. This would actually place him better than average among his comparator group (other high volume dmen) in terms of accuracy.

Very surprising revelation to me, and I would imagine to many others on the board.
And compared to Franson who is said to get a much higher percentage of shots on net got 72.9% through this season and 68.4% through last season. There really isn't much difference.

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06-17-2013, 03:54 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Well real hockey people seem to disagree with you.
Somebody also gave Reimer a vote for the Art Ross. I think he's a good goalie, but that's just a joke.

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06-17-2013, 04:01 PM
  #97
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Boggles my mind how much hate he still gets from our own fans. Leaf fans are anti-homer when it comes to our D-men, no matter what they do, they will always be looked at negatively.

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06-17-2013, 04:04 PM
  #98
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He'll get there, he's still young. Defensemen get beter with age and I for one am glad he's with us

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06-17-2013, 04:06 PM
  #99
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how is phaneuf's relationship with the media?

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06-17-2013, 04:11 PM
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You'd think Gunnarsson was the second coming of Lidstrom with how some of these posters treat him. They are the sane guys who treat Phaneuf like Cory Cross. I just block them.

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