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Phaneuf 11th in Norris voting

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Old
06-17-2013, 05:12 PM
  #101
Durrr
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Originally Posted by wulfio View Post
you cannot define a hockey player by stats. for the love of god strap on the skates before you talk about hockey.

Phaneuf is slow footed, has low hockey iq, stone hands, and below average first pass.

He IS NOT a #1 dman on a stanley cup winner, and the sooner you people understand that, the better off you'll be. There are 30 #1 C, 30 #1 D, 30 #1 goalies, etc. This does not mean there are 30 C's, D's, and goalies capable of leading their team to a cup.

If phaneuf was a 2nd/3rd dman on our roster, thats when we'll be contenders.
I think most people versed in hockey would put him between 8-15 in ranking of #1 D in the league. No ones saying his top 2 or 5, he's a solid #1 on a team that's lacking a #2 to back him up.


Last edited by Epictetus: 06-17-2013 at 06:42 PM.
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06-17-2013, 05:17 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Durrr View Post
I think most people versed in hockey would put him between 8-15 in ranking of #1 D in the league. No ones saying his top 2 or 5, he's a solid #1 on a team that's lacking a #2 to back him up.

He is probably # 1 who gets the most hate. If you reduce his minutes to like 22 min or 23. he will be even better


Last edited by Epictetus: 06-17-2013 at 06:42 PM.
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06-17-2013, 05:19 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Jtabo View Post
You'd think Gunnarsson was the second coming of Lidstrom with how some of these posters treat him. They are the sane guys who treat Phaneuf like Cory Cross. I just block them.
Who the **** is saying Gunner is a great D . The guys a solid dependable player who gets knocked from the DP fans to make excuses for Dion's shortcomings .

And on the flip side , no one's saying Phaneuf is a horrible player , some are just saying he isn't a true num 1 or elite D .

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06-17-2013, 05:24 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Guy Boucher View Post
Beauch was good in Toronto too. Toronto fans are just merciless on their defenseman though.
Agreed, the system screwed him though, it even had Randy asking him WTF was up when he went back to the Ducks.

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06-17-2013, 05:27 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by wulfio View Post
you cannot define a hockey player by stats. for the love of god strap on the skates before you talk about hockey.

Phaneuf is slow footed, has low hockey iq, stone hands, and below average first pass.

He IS NOT a #1 dman on a stanley cup winner, and the sooner you people understand that, the better off you'll be. There are 30 #1 C, 30 #1 D, 30 #1 goalies, etc. This does not mean there are 30 C's, D's, and goalies capable of leading their team to a cup.

If phaneuf was a 2nd/3rd dman on our roster, thats when we'll be contenders.


Long term, he should be our #3.

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06-17-2013, 05:27 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
He is probably # 1 who gets the most hate. If you reduce his minutes to like 22 min or 23. he will be even better
So your're saying he's a top 10/15 D but can't play the mins those D are supposed to play ?

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06-17-2013, 05:34 PM
  #107
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Terrible, terrible understanding of hockey in this thread.

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06-17-2013, 05:34 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
So your're saying he's a top 10/15 D but can't play the mins those D are supposed to play ?
He's proven he can play the minutes, doesn't mean having a few less wont result in less mistakes from extended shifts.

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06-17-2013, 05:39 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Salgari View Post
Terrible, terrible understanding of hockey in this thread.
Lol from people arguing against him or for him?

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06-17-2013, 05:41 PM
  #110
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A nice little acknowledgement about how valuable a defenseman Dion really is. Plays 25+ minutes a night against the toughest matchups, was 6th in hits, 26th in blocks, all while still being 4th in goals and 10th in points amongst defensemen.

Other fanbases mock him for the odd mistake that gets blown out of proportions, but I'm perfectly happy having him on our top pairing.

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06-17-2013, 05:45 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
He is probably # 1 who gets the most hate. If you reduce his minutes to like 22 min or 23. he will be even better
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
So your're saying he's a top 10/15 D but can't play the mins those D are supposed to play ?
I'd argue that the number of minutes isn't really as big as the quality of the minutes. Of the 25 minutes he plays a night, very rarely does he get a **** where he's not against the top line, or at the very least the top 6. The Franson-Fraser pairing was relied on more later in the season, but if we had a pairing that could shoulder some of the load and allow us to reserve Phaneuf more for later in the game, then I think he'd be a lot more effective.

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06-17-2013, 05:46 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Durrr View Post
He's proven he can play the minutes, doesn't mean having a few less wont result in less mistakes from extended shifts.
Anyone can play the mins , playing them well is a different matter . DP gets exposed the more he plays and the more responsibility he gets and that's why I believe he best suited on the 2nd pairing .

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06-17-2013, 05:52 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Dion has one of the best shooting percentages for defensemen.. And how can he chase all the time but watch the play all the time too?
He's just that good.

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06-17-2013, 06:01 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wulfio View Post
you cannot define a hockey player by stats. for the love of god strap on the skates before you talk about hockey.

Phaneuf is slow footed, has low hockey iq, stone hands, and below average first pass.

He IS NOT a #1 dman on a stanley cup winner, and the sooner you people understand that, the better off you'll be. There are 30 #1 C, 30 #1 D, 30 #1 goalies, etc. This does not mean there are 30 C's, D's, and goalies capable of leading their team to a cup.

If phaneuf was a 2nd/3rd dman on our roster, thats when we'll be contenders.
According to people who know much more hockey than you, they believe that there are only 10 players in the league that played better than he did. I am sure you can get 2 of those very easily.

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06-17-2013, 06:07 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Durrr View Post
I can't believe people like you are still posting here, crawl back into your cave please I think most people versed in hockey would put him between 8-15 in ranking of #1 D in the league. No ones saying his top 2 or 5, he's a solid #1 on a team that's lacking a #2 to back him up.
so you just proved my point. he's a middle of the road #1 dman. awesome. How many teams led by middle of the road #1 dmen win the cup?

But I guess Toronto has become very accepting of mediocrity, so you're possibly not able to see my side of the argument.

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06-17-2013, 06:36 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by wulfio View Post
so you just proved my point. he's a middle of the road #1 dman. awesome. How many teams led by middle of the road #1 dmen win the cup?

But I guess Toronto has become very accepting of mediocrity, so you're possibly not able to see my side of the argument.
I didn't prove your point at all, you have no point except to hate on a player who's undeserving. Do you really think Montreal is closer to winning a cup then Toronto because they have Subban on there roster? How about the Wild or the Ducks? I don't even understand why you even try to make a point, it's not like the leafs can just go out and get one of the 10 above dion anytime they want. You say we accept mediocrity, yet you bash dion because he's not the #1 D in the league. Do you know how ridiculous that it? That's not his fault that Toronto relies on him as much as we do. The fact is we have a top 10ish defender in the league, and it's managements job to provide him with a supporting D corps that can compete for the cup. Look at Doughty, who only came in 9th yet won the cup last year. Do you think his mediocrity held back the kings? The fact is, this year Dion was ranking 11th in all D men in the league, if 11th out of every single D men is mediocrity to you, then your argument is completely unjustifiable.

I'm not even trying to pump dions tires here, he obviously has his short comings but regardless he's a solid #1. On top of all this we have defense in the system who could very well take the #1 spot from dion in a few years, so again, who cares about your opinion that he's not top 5 or whatever when the leafs have clearly made an effort to find those high end D players.


Last edited by Durrr: 06-17-2013 at 06:48 PM.
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06-17-2013, 07:31 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by JackJ View Post


Long term, he should be our #3.
Is the cap disappearing? Are we suddenly going to ice a complete all star team?

Some people...

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06-17-2013, 07:34 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Durrr View Post
I didn't prove your point at all, you have no point except to hate on a player who's undeserving. Do you really think Montreal is closer to winning a cup then Toronto because they have Subban on there roster? How about the Wild or the Ducks? I don't even understand why you even try to make a point, it's not like the leafs can just go out and get one of the 10 above dion anytime they want. You say we accept mediocrity, yet you bash dion because he's not the #1 D in the league. Do you know how ridiculous that it? That's not his fault that Toronto relies on him as much as we do. The fact is we have a top 10ish defender in the league, and it's managements job to provide him with a supporting D corps that can compete for the cup. Look at Doughty, who only came in 9th yet won the cup last year. Do you think his mediocrity held back the kings? The fact is, this year Dion was ranking 11th in all D men in the league, if 11th out of every single D men is mediocrity to you, then your argument is completely unjustifiable.

I'm not even trying to pump dions tires here, he obviously has his short comings but regardless he's a solid #1. On top of all this we have defense in the system who could very well take the #1 spot from dion in a few years, so again, who cares about your opinion that he's not top 5 or whatever when the leafs have clearly made an effort to find those high end D players.
Why bother? Anytime I read the whole 'player that wins you a cup' argument I instantly tune out.
There is no 'type of player'. Just people talking out their ass.

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06-17-2013, 08:19 PM
  #119
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This image looks at players quality of competition and their offense zone starts. The higher you are, the harder the competition you face. The more to the left you are, the more often you start in the defensive zone.



I see that not only did Doughty play easier minutes than Phaneuf but nobody played tougher minutes than Phaneuf.
That has nothing to do with what I said...

Doughty faced tougher competition for ice time. LA's blue line is way better than Toronto's, and that means Darryl Sutter had more options outside of Doughty.

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06-17-2013, 08:34 PM
  #120
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Lol from people arguing against him or for him?
It's quite obvious to the people who watch the games.

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06-17-2013, 08:37 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by The Apologist View Post
Is the cap disappearing? Are we suddenly going to ice a complete all star team?

Some people...
I could see both Rielly and Gardiner surpassing him on our depth chart. That is not a knock against Phaneuf, because I fully see him as a top 15 Dman in the league. But Rielly and Gardiner just have that kind of an upside, and that would leave us in a pretty damn good position.

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06-17-2013, 09:14 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Ryan Suter and money were missing from the Nashville line-up.

Losing an All-star dman and playing at the cap floor will have a negative effect on a hockey teams results.

With Suter in tow Nashville were a playoff team after losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs in 2011-12.

That doesn't change the Phaneuf verses Weber comparison, but it does answer your question.
The grasp of the obvious is strong in this one.....

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06-17-2013, 10:16 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by wulfio View Post
you cannot define a hockey player by stats. for the love of god strap on the skates before you talk about hockey.

Phaneuf is slow footed, has low hockey iq, stone hands, and below average first pass.

He IS NOT a #1 dman on a stanley cup winner, and the sooner you people understand that, the better off you'll be. There are 30 #1 C, 30 #1 D, 30 #1 goalies, etc. This does not mean there are 30 C's, D's, and goalies capable of leading their team to a cup.

If phaneuf was a 2nd/3rd dman on our roster, thats when we'll be contenders.
Excellent points. I see you have been reading some of my posts.

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06-17-2013, 10:16 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by 81inblueandwhite View Post
how is phaneuf's relationship with the media?
Like that of a stepfather and his red headed stepson.

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06-17-2013, 10:42 PM
  #125
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He's proven he can play the minutes, doesn't mean having a few less wont result in less mistakes from extended shifts.
Okay but as you have seen in the playoffs, games sometimes go almost double the normal time of regulation due to the players working overtime.

So undoubtedly there will have to be times where Dion has to play big minutes whether someone else on the team is taking more icetime or not.

If you are afraid to put your "#1 dman" on the ice you have a completely messed up looking roster.

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