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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part V: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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Old
06-16-2013, 01:43 AM
  #476
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
The issue with the term PMD is that it is misapplied by some to insinuate that it strictly means offensive-minded defenseman with average or below average defense. A PMD means the guy has strong puck-handling, shooting, scoring and puck control skills, but a PMD can be extremely good defensively (Weber, Pronger, Chara, etc), above average defensively (Subban, Kronwall, Keith, Doughty), average defensively (Karlsson, Letang, Phaneuf), below average defensively (Streit, Yandle, M. Green) or poor defensively (Marc-Andre Bergeron, Wideman).

While you could quibble about the categorization I made about certain players mentioned, clearly these guys can all move a puck and hence are PMD.... not all of them are going to improve a PK or goals against average. Further, even within PMD, there are stratifications. Clearly Karlsson is in a league of his own as far as offensive skills at the defensive position goes.
My point was more that we need guys who can play defense. If that guy can also move the puck very well, then that's a plus, but when your defense is as bad as ours has been, anyone who can actually be relied upon on the backend besides Timonen would be nice. We should be taking the best defenseman available with our pick (if we go defenseman that is). It shouldn't matter what genre of defenseman they are.

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06-16-2013, 05:36 AM
  #477
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Zadorov's nastiness would be great, but I'd take Ristolainen in a heartbeat. He isn't flashy but he's responsible defensively, which is what we need... He can throw his body around pretty hard too. I hope he'll be available.

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06-16-2013, 06:45 AM
  #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
The issue with the term PMD is that it is misapplied by some to insinuate that it strictly means offensive-minded defenseman with average or below average defense. A PMD means the guy has strong puck-handling, shooting, scoring and puck control skills, but a PMD can be extremely good defensively (Weber, Pronger, Chara, etc), above average defensively (Subban, Kronwall, Keith, Doughty), average defensively (Karlsson, Letang, Phaneuf), below average defensively (Streit, Yandle, M. Green) or poor defensively (Marc-Andre Bergeron, Wideman
Yeah, nothing about being a PMD entails you're bad defensively. I think that's why most of us use the terms "PMD" and "Offensive Defenseman (meaning: Known Mostly O Less so for D)" to separate them out a bit as different ideas. Still, not perfect.

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06-16-2013, 10:12 AM
  #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
The issue with the term PMD is that it is misapplied by some to insinuate that it strictly means offensive-minded defenseman with average or below average defense. A PMD means the guy has strong puck-handling, shooting, scoring and puck control skills, but a PMD can be extremely good defensively (Weber, Pronger, Chara, etc), above average defensively (Subban, Kronwall, Keith, Doughty), average defensively (Karlsson, Letang, Phaneuf), below average defensively (Streit, Yandle, M. Green) or poor defensively (Marc-Andre Bergeron, Wideman).

While you could quibble about the categorization I made about certain players mentioned, clearly these guys can all move a puck and hence are PMD.... not all of them are going to improve a PK or goals against average. Further, even within PMD, there are stratifications. Clearly Karlsson is in a league of his own as far as offensive skills at the defensive position goes.
Thank you. The term PMD is totally meaningless, just a fiction of know nothings on boards like this.

Do you need a PPQB? A PK specialist? An offensive Dman? Those terms apply to players' special roles or skills.

IF PMD can apply to Chara, Keith, Phaneuf and Wideman, you might as well just skip the pretentious PM and call them what they are: defensemen.

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06-16-2013, 10:34 AM
  #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Thank you. The term PMD is totally meaningless, just a fiction of know nothings on boards like this.

Do you need a PPQB? A PK specialist? An offensive Dman? Those terms apply to players' special roles or skills.

IF PMD can apply to Chara, Keith, Phaneuf and Wideman, you might as well just skip the pretentious PM and call them what they are: defensemen.
I don't think the term puck moving is meaningless. For instance, there are great defensemen out there who never handle the puck. Their job is to clear the crease or take players out along the boards, etc......A guy like Nicklas Grossmann, for instance, I wouldn't call a puck mover.

I also take a look at a guy like Bret Hedican (when he played) and he was a guy who didn't put up very many points, but could actually handle and move the puck very well. I'd call him a puck moving defenseman because he could handle and carry the puck comfortably out of his zone.

I will say this though - I think the term is used a little too loosely. When someone says the Flyers "need" a puck moving defenseman, do they mean someone who can move and carry the puck comfortably? Do they mean an offensive defenseman? I think that's the thing that bugs me most about the term - it's so opaque that some people just automatically apply the term to any defenseman, which isn't the case.

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06-16-2013, 10:40 AM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
The issue with the term PMD is that it is misapplied by some to insinuate that it strictly means offensive-minded defenseman with average or below average defense. A PMD means the guy has strong puck-handling, shooting, scoring and puck control skills, but a PMD can be extremely good defensively (Weber, Pronger, Chara, etc), above average defensively (Subban, Kronwall, Keith, Doughty), average defensively (Karlsson, Letang, Phaneuf), below average defensively (Streit, Yandle, M. Green) or poor defensively (Marc-Andre Bergeron, Wideman).
I don't necessarily agree with your definition of a PMD. My definition of a PMD is someone that can effectively get the puck from the defensive zone into the offensive zone- whether that be through an outlet pass, puck retrieval (something that is often forgotten), avoiding the rush and/or simply lugging the puck like Subban. Whether they can score or not is irrelevant. I look at a guy like Johnny Oduya. He'll never be confused for an offensive defenseman, but he can move the puck pretty well. On the flip side, I wouldn't really categorize Marc-Andre Bergeron as a puck moving defenseman, but rather an offensive defenseman because of his ability to score. I would lump Pulock in the category as well since, we are talking about prospects. Are most offensive defenseman puck movers? Yes, but not all of them are.

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06-16-2013, 01:13 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
I don't necessarily agree with your definition of a PMD. My definition of a PMD is someone that can effectively get the puck from the defensive zone into the offensive zone- whether that be through an outlet pass, puck retrieval (something that is often forgotten), avoiding the rush and/or simply lugging the puck like Subban. Whether they can score or not is irrelevant. I look at a guy like Johnny Oduya. He'll never be confused for an offensive defenseman, but he can move the puck pretty well. On the flip side, I wouldn't really categorize Marc-Andre Bergeron as a puck moving defenseman, but rather an offensive defenseman because of his ability to score. I would lump Pulock in the category as well since, we are talking about prospects. Are most offensive defenseman puck movers? Yes, but not all of them are.
I completely agree, and would most I assume, that PMD and offensive defenseman are often used as synonyms when that's not the case. That's not to say they are virtually exclusive as you alluded to above. For example, I would classify Zadorov as a PMD now as he carries the puck well from his own zone but he needs to work on his offensive game.

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06-16-2013, 02:07 PM
  #483
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Josh Morrissey is the best combo of all of the above in this conversation. Just sayin.

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06-16-2013, 05:49 PM
  #484
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Josh Morrissey

YT for Josh Morrissey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45-tBcwlPKY

There are a few vids of him on YT absolutely awesome: checker, puck mover, fighter (yes fighter) and a hockey IQ that is off and I mean off the charts........

I predict who ever takes him will have a No #2 defenseman. If the Flyers choose at #11 and if he does not go before then, he and Schenn will present a very dangerous duo. Add Heatherington and in the 3rd round add Lewington, there will not be a single team that would present a challenge to the Flyers defensively in 5 years. None.
Nada. Zero. It will be WWF on ice. Oh it is called WHL.....same thing.......

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06-16-2013, 06:50 PM
  #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macleish1974 View Post
YT for Josh Morrissey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45-tBcwlPKY

There are a few vids of him on YT absolutely awesome: checker, puck mover, fighter (yes fighter) and a hockey IQ that is off and I mean off the charts........

I predict who ever takes him will have a No #2 defenseman. If the Flyers choose at #11 and if he does not go before then, he and Schenn will present a very dangerous duo. Add Heatherington and in the 3rd round add Lewington, there will not be a single team that would present a challenge to the Flyers defensively in 5 years. None.
Nada. Zero. It will be WWF on ice. Oh it is called WHL.....same thing.......
He is a very well-rounded player and I've been saying to my friends how much I want to see him on the Flyers. I really wanna see some of his great celebrations too haha

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06-16-2013, 06:59 PM
  #486
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Where was all this Morrissey love in the beginning of the year?

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06-16-2013, 07:37 PM
  #487
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Yeah, I'm on the Morrissey bandwagon as well.

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06-16-2013, 09:39 PM
  #488
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I'm on get the BPA bandwagon.

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06-16-2013, 09:59 PM
  #489
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I'm on get the BPA bandwagon.
Im also on board, hiding in milk crates

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06-17-2013, 08:28 PM
  #490
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oh dont you worry

their has been love for josh morrisey for a long time now. what i would like to know where did all the love for pulock come from. for a guy that is by no means quick and could be a #4 dman, and may not get any better than that. pulock is higher than morrisey on every mock draft world wide. morrisey could reach the position of a #2 dman, do people seriously think pulock could be a #2 dman, i for one do not see that. gonna have to leave that one to the flyers scouts.

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06-17-2013, 09:09 PM
  #491
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On CBC tonight, Don Cherry had McKinnon, Drouin, Jones and Nurse on Coach's Corner. All very well spoken young men. Surprising that Nurse looked noticeably bigger than Jones, both standing and sitting on the stools. I know he's listed as being taller, but it was the shoulders that struck me.

Asked favourite players, McK said Crosby (same hometown, not surprising), Drouin said Giroux (small feisty playmaker), Jones said Doughty and Nurse said Weber.

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06-17-2013, 09:49 PM
  #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
On CBC tonight, Don Cherry had McKinnon, Drouin, Jones and Nurse on Coach's Corner. All very well spoken young men. Surprising that Nurse looked noticeably bigger than Jones, both standing and sitting on the stools. I know he's listed as being taller, but it was the shoulders that struck me.

Asked favourite players, McK said Crosby (same hometown, not surprising), Drouin said Giroux (small feisty playmaker), Jones said Doughty and Nurse said Weber.
I saw that segment, too. Not insightful, but I didn't expect that from Cherry. Good to hear from the top 3 and Nurse (wherever he goes).

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06-17-2013, 10:35 PM
  #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
On CBC tonight, Don Cherry had McKinnon, Drouin, Jones and Nurse on Coach's Corner. All very well spoken young men. Surprising that Nurse looked noticeably bigger than Jones, both standing and sitting on the stools. I know he's listed as being taller, but it was the shoulders that struck me.

Asked favourite players, McK said Crosby (same hometown, not surprising), Drouin said Giroux (small feisty playmaker), Jones said Doughty and Nurse said Weber.
I think Nurse's comparable is Weber...He's going to be big, going to hit like a truck, and already has a boomstick.

I think he will be gone at 11, and if so...Morrissey all the way, if we can trade down and still get him. I think he will be a stellar offensive guy with good defensive game, and if he can put on some weight, he will be even better.

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06-18-2013, 09:34 AM
  #494
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http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...e_Donovan.html

Here's an article on Nurse and the Flyers for those interested.

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06-18-2013, 09:47 AM
  #495
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If Nurse somehow falls to us I will cry manly tears of joy.

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06-18-2013, 10:09 AM
  #496
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Yeah, two months ago I thought getting Nurse would be possible (not certain) and a decent pick up. His stock has rise so much though, I'd be shocked if he were available.

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06-18-2013, 10:23 AM
  #497
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I almost do not want Nurse because I can't stand hearing about McNabb. Also don't want that one poisoning his ears. It may, one day, be difficult to resign him after McNabb poisons the well about how horrible Philly is if Nurse takes criticism from the media. The first McNabb / Nurse story will be awful-- and it will be chronically mentioned--FOREVER.

If you don't think McNabb won't try to influence Nurse with his cancer, his chronic diaherria of the mouth, then you haven't been watching.

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06-18-2013, 10:24 AM
  #498
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For defenders I am hoping for Ristolainen or Morrissey at 11. I think they are going to be better than Nurse.

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06-18-2013, 10:26 AM
  #499
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I think it is Morrissey or bust for me at this point. Looks like he has the highest ceiling for the defenders that should be available when we pick

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06-18-2013, 10:27 AM
  #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
I almost do not want Nurse because I can't stand hearing about McNabb. Also don't want that one poisoning his ears. It may, one day, be difficult to resign him after McNabb poisons the well about how horrible Philly is if Nurse takes criticism from the media. The first McNabb / Nurse story will be awful-- and it will be chronically mentioned--FOREVER.

If you don't think McNabb won't try to influence Nurse with his cancer, his chronic diaherria of the mouth, then you haven't been watching.


The already uninteresting Flyers media would have a nauseating field day with that story for years. I'd rather have Nurse than not have him but it would get annoying.

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