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Flyers sign Mark Streit to a multi-year deal [4 yrs, $21m; $5.25 AAV] (post #1)

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Old
06-18-2013, 10:06 AM
  #751
DecadesofFutility
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
I asked this same question last night and no one wanted to answer it. And let me say that after the season I wanted Homer and Lavy to be replaced. I was also hoping for a 3 year contract for Streit.

For those of you who are against signing streit, how would you improve the defense for next year? Would you just sit tight with kimmo, schenn, coburn, grossmann, Mez, and Gus? There aren't really any UFA who have much offensive abilities other than streit. I guess we could offer sheet someone. I don't think there is a realistic offer sheet out there who could get #1 guys like pieteangelo and bogosian. I guess we could try for guys like shattenkirk, leddy, mcdonagh or wiercioch but the amount of money you would have to give them for the team not to match would make them overpaid and you would likely have to give up good draft picks. I just do not see many options without blowing up the team once again
When Carter and Richards were traded, that was the time to rebuild the defense.
We would be 2 years into developing defensive rookies, if we had.
But, we decided to draft more centers instead.
My guess is it is time to blow it up.
No way we can win with Mason, and an mediocre defense corp.

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06-18-2013, 10:07 AM
  #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
.............

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn

Our 2010 top 4 is calling you out on your BS.
Our 2011 defense was good as well with

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros

but I still think Holmgren should be gone as well as Lavy. Homer is the one who pissed away all of our 1st and 2nd round draft picks for 3 years and put us in the position we are in now. The 2010 run was great but you just don't give up 3 first round picks and a 25 goal scorer for a 35 year old defenseman. And then not understand or even have the 35+ rule clarified.

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06-18-2013, 10:08 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Gladly. Wish I didn't have to.

All you have to do is read the main boards here to see how many fans of other teams have laughed at Holmgren's moves in the last few years.
I remember how the main board had a field day with the trade for Mason, and then got very quiet when he played well here. A lot of people on the main board are clueless, and a lot of the fans of poorer teams scream about every free agent being overpaid to make themselves feel better about the fact they can't afford any of them.

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06-18-2013, 10:08 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
The mainboards applauded and quaked with fear when we signed Bryzgalov.

I facepalmed and sighed at our own stupidity.

The mainboards jeered us when we traded for Mason.

I was enthused by having another potential legitimate option that actually gave a crap.



Good barometer of how the Flyers are doing with any decision? Take the direct opposite of the mass consensus opinion on the main boards.

People there see Couturier as a 20-point forward.

We see him as an elite shut-down forward at 20 with 65-70 point potential.


I mean, any argument that starts off "the main boards are laughing at us" is almost doomed for failure by its very nature.


Carey Price was once worth Claude Giroux + 1st donchaknow.
Chris you also said Leighton could win a cup.

This team is pretty obviously a total mess. A lot of you need to get your heads out of your *****. Homer has shown repeatedly that he can't run this team properly and that he doesn't understand how the CBA works. Regardless of what the main boards say, he has absolutely made a joke out of this team. Just look at every article written about the Kings last year or about Bob this year. This team is much farther away from contending then they were 2 years ago.

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06-18-2013, 10:10 AM
  #755
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For those of you who are in the "rebuild the defense" mindframe, who exactly is being held back by this signing? Our prospects are nothing but a bunch of fringe guys like Manning, Lauridsen, Bourdon, and Alt. A couple of them might turn into a bottom pair NHL defenseman. Ghost? He's at least a year or two away from even turning pro, and then probably a full year in the AHL after that away from cracking the NHL roster. Even then, he would only be ready to play a smaller role with the big club. Whoever they draft at 11 is still probably a year or two away from breaking into the NHL, and at least 2-3 years away from being a true impact player.

I'm all for rebuilding the defense and grooming defensive talent from within, but that takes several seasons to do, and the guys that we currently have are underwhelming to say the least. Let Streit play on the NHL roster and replace him eventually some homegrown and developed talent. It's really the only option they have at this point, unless you think it was a good idea to wing it and go with the same dumpster fire of a unit that they had last year.

By then our forwards will be old though, like in their late twenties, and Giroux might be over the hill at 30.

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06-18-2013, 10:10 AM
  #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
When Carter and Richards were traded, that was the time to rebuild the defense.
We would be 2 years into developing defensive rookies, if we had.
But, we decided to draft more centers instead.
My guess is it is time to blow it up.
No way we can win with Mason, and an mediocre defense corp.
To be fair if we had drafted Hamilton and traded for Voynov rather than Schenn our top three centers would be Giroux, Briere and Talbot. That is absolutely abysmal. Also Pronger, Timonen, Coburn, Carle, and Meszaros were all healthy at the time. I think the real problem is that we traded 3 straight 1st round picks in the Pronger deal. That is what truly set us back

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06-18-2013, 10:11 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
When Carter and Richards were traded, that was the time to rebuild the defense.
We would be 2 years into developing defensive rookies, if we had.
But, we decided to draft more centers instead.
My guess is it is time to blow it up.
No way we can win with Mason, and an mediocre defense corp.
For like the 50th time we needed centers (especially ones that could play defense too) just as much as defensemen at the time considering we lost Carter, Richards, & Betts.

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06-18-2013, 10:14 AM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
.............

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn

Our 2010 top 4 is calling you out on your BS.
In 2010 we had Pronger, and an younger Timonen.
Now they only have Timonen ---1 guy left from your 2010 top 4.

We got rid of Carle, who I wanted to keep since he was an offensive defenseman.
Coburn is no longer a top 4 defenseman, and cannot be paid as such.
Time for bebuild, we are not cup contenders.
Streit is not the answer, put the Koolaid down.

Holmgren sucks at building a defense.
He gambled everything on Pronger winning us a cup.
He lost, we lost. Time for a new player(GM).

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06-18-2013, 10:17 AM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Bryz4shiz View Post
Chris you also said Leighton could win a cup.
If Leighton can get to the Stanley Cup Finals, then Leighton CAN win a cup.

All you did was strengthen my position that Holmgren assembled a defense (without drafting) that would make Leighton look capable enough to win a Stanley Cup.

Unfortunately we no longer have Pronger, Timonen is older, Carle (despite his idiocy) was actually the perfect partner for Pronger, and Coburn cannot perform when asked to carry the PMD load.

And yeah we have Couturier, but we don't have Richards AND Carter carrying the defensive load on the forward core. Schenn hasn't quite stepped up to the defensive plate the way I had hoped, and though Laughton has potential, he's going to be a rookie this year.

We don't have the same caliber defense we had in 2010. That's why Bryzgalov, doing his best Leighton impression as a million-dollar scrub back-up, was never going to get us anywhere unless we landed Weber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryz4shiz View Post
This team is pretty obviously a total mess. A lot of you need to get your heads out of your *****. Homer has shown repeatedly that he can't run this team properly and that he doesn't understand how the CBA works. Regardless of what the main boards say, he has absolutely made a joke out of this team. Just look at every article written about the Kings last year or about Bob this year. This team is much farther away from contending then they were 2 years ago.
This team is not a total mess. What the hell is wrong with people...?

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06-18-2013, 10:18 AM
  #760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
For like the 50th time we needed centers (especially ones that could play defense too) just as much as defensemen at the time considering we lost Carter, Richards, & Betts.
The biggest problem was he got younger on offense when he needed to get younger on defense. So he was stuck with a defense corps built to win now, but a forwards corps a few years away. When Couturier and Schenn begin peaking Timonen will done and Streit will be a cap drain.

The moment he decided to trade 17 and 18 was the moment that should have triggered a full rebuild instead of building a team that lacks any sort of direction.

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06-18-2013, 10:18 AM
  #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
In 2010 we had Pronger, and an younger Timonen.
Now they only have Timonen ---1 guy left from your 2010 top 4.

We got rid of Carle, who I wanted to keep since he was an offensive defenseman.
Coburn is no longer a top 4 defenseman, and cannot be paid as such.
Time for bebuild, we are not cup contenders.
Streit is not the answer, put the Koolaid down.

Holmgren sucks at building a defense.
He gambled everything on Pronger winning us a cup.
He lost, we lost. Time for a new player(GM).
Holmgren builds 2010 defense.
2010 defense gets old, injured, and inconsistent by 2013 because of it.
People now say Holmgren can't build a defense even though he did it 3 years ago.

Brilliant.

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06-18-2013, 10:20 AM
  #762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
The biggest problem was he got younger on offense when he needed to get younger on defense. So he was stuck with a defense corps built to win now, but a forwards corps a few years away. When Couturier and Schenn begin peaking Timonen will done and Streit will be a cap drain.

The moment he decided to trade 17 and 18 was the moment that should have triggered a full rebuild instead of building a team that lacks any sort of direction.
We're basically doing the same "on-the-fly" rebuild that happened in 2007.

True we're not nabbing Timonen, Hartnell, and Briere. Those guys just aren't available on the market. We're grabbing the next best thing (Streit) and acquiring guys we need. From there we'll let our young centers progress into the next leaders of this team.

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06-18-2013, 10:21 AM
  #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
In 2010 we had Pronger, and an younger Timonen.
Now they only have Timonen ---1 guy left from your 2010 top 4.

We got rid of Carle, who I wanted to keep since he was an offensive defenseman.
Coburn is no longer a top 4 defenseman, and cannot be paid as such.
Time for bebuild, we are not cup contenders.
Streit is not the answer, put the Koolaid down.

Holmgren sucks at building a defense.
He gambled everything on Pronger winning us a cup.
He lost, we lost. Time for a new player(GM).
Honestly if you think Coburn is not a top 4 defender you will not be taken serious. I don't know why you keep saying this.

Streit is better than Carle as well. The only difference is age.

Pronger would most likely still be playing at an elite level if he was still playing, you can't fault him in bringing in a Hall of Fame defender, but you somehow are.

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Old
06-18-2013, 10:22 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
I remember how the main board had a field day with the trade for Mason, and then got very quiet when he played well here. A lot of people on the main board are clueless, and a lot of the fans of poorer teams scream about every free agent being overpaid to make themselves feel better about the fact they can't afford any of them.
just like the Flyer fans and Snider who act like Mason is suddenly the #1 goalie for the future based on a 6 game sample size. Im glad he played well and got himself a contract. good for him. But lets see how he does when the games come with more pressure and he faces some resiliency.
People are going to have to lower their expectations a bit I think. I hope the guys turns his career around. I really do but thinking that hes turned everything around based on a 6 game sample size? thats just setting yourself up for disappointment.

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06-18-2013, 10:22 AM
  #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
For like the 50th time we needed centers (especially ones that could play defense too) just as much as defensemen at the time considering we lost Carter, Richards, & Betts.
I would have been fine, drafting potential #1 defenseman with picks from Richards and Carter and developing them for a couple of years.
I would have signed 1-2 FA centers on short term deals.
Then at the next draft I would have started rebuilding the forward postions.

Because Holmgren failed to address the defense soon enough, now we have to bandaid with Streit.

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06-18-2013, 10:24 AM
  #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
In 2010 we had Pronger, and an younger Timonen.
Now they only have Timonen ---1 guy left from your 2010 top 4.

We got rid of Carle, who I wanted to keep since he was an offensive defenseman.
Coburn is no longer a top 4 defenseman, and cannot be paid as such.
Time for bebuild, we are not cup contenders.
Streit is not the answer, put the Koolaid down.

Holmgren sucks at building a defense.
He gambled everything on Pronger winning us a cup.
He lost, we lost. Time for a new player(GM).
Carle is a bad offensive defenseman, as indicated by the teams he plays for producing less offensively when he's on the ice. He's only good for moving the puck out of the zone, after that he's better off sitting on the bench because he's hilariously easy to defend against.

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06-18-2013, 10:24 AM
  #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Holmgren builds 2010 defense.
2010 defense gets old, injured, and inconsistent by 2013 because of it.
People now say Holmgren can't build a defense even though he did it 3 years ago.

Brilliant.
Another brilliant thing I have come to notice around here similar to this. Everyone says "GO BPA!" at the draft. Someone suggests drafting a defenseman even if it is not the BPA and they get flamed. Those doing the flaming then complain that Homer never drafts and develops defensemen in the first rounds. If you want the team to go BPA, you can't complain if they aren't drafting defensemen in the higher rounds.

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06-18-2013, 10:25 AM
  #768
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Well..this isn't great but this is what the Flyers get for not developing D men and the GM having a crappy offseason by having no plan B after he swung for the free agent fences. The Parise and Suter attempt was not a good calculated risk. If he hadn't allowed Carle on the open market he would be just fine here at a more reasonable price and years. Instead, we'll ..MAYBE..get two decent years out of Streit then he'll become a cap anchor...

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06-18-2013, 10:26 AM
  #769
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Another brilliant thing I have come to notice around here similar to this. Everyone says "GO BPA!" at the draft. Someone suggests drafting a defenseman even if it is not the BPA and they get flamed. Those doing the flaming then complain that Homer never drafts and develops defensemen in the first rounds. If you want the team to go BPA, you can't complain if they aren't drafting defensemen in the higher rounds.
It seems like most of the good dmen come outside the first round anyways. And, that's probably the problem; we usually trade those picks away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Well..this isn't great but this is what the Flyers get for not developing D men and the GM having a crappy offseason by having no plan B after he swung for the free agent fences. The Parise and Suter attempt was not a good calculated risk. If he hadn't allowed Carle on the open market he would be just fine here at a more reasonable price and years. Instead, we'll ..MAYBE..get two decent years out of Streit then he'll become a cap anchor...
Yeah, and what sucks is that, unless something dramatic happens in net...this team isn't a realistic contender right now. So around the time you'd expect their window to open, Streit will be entering his anchor years. It's pretty unlikely he'll be good at that age.

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06-18-2013, 10:27 AM
  #770
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Hey everyone, Sens fan here

So yeah the Streit deal is getting a lot of attention and from the sound of it some of you don't think this deal is that bad

I'm curious to see if anyone here feels that Holmgren should've tried to get a younger PMD via trade: my understanding is that the Flyers do not have a good PMD prospect and that it isn't likely there is one available at the draft

Yeah you would have had to give up a player but I think it would have been better long-term (unless you guys do have a promising PMD in the pipeline I don't know about!)

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06-18-2013, 10:27 AM
  #771
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Hey everyone, Sens fan here

So yeah the Streit deal is getting a lot of attention and from the sound of it some of you don't think this deal is that bad

I'm curious to see if anyone here feels that Holmgren should've tried to get a younger PMD: my understanding is that the Flyers do not have a good PMD prospect and that it isn't likely there is one available at the draft

Yeah you would have had to give up a player but I think it would have been better long-term (unless you guys do have a promising PMD in the pipeline I don't know about!)
We do, Gus. He's just promise for now though, he has more to prove.

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06-18-2013, 10:27 AM
  #772
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I'm waiting a few days before judging this. It is making my stomach queasy, but that may pass. You do not want to pay a guy for what he's done-- but what he will do. With his age-- that includes a lot of question marks. Also: +35 contract. Nothing positive about that aspect of it. He is, however, somewhat tradeable with his limited NTC. The team only paid cash for him, so if they must move him for dirt-- hopefully they can weasel out of the contract if they must at some point. He does, however, knock the bottom 2 pairings into where they belong.

Eh. Queasy. Could go either way on this one. Pros and cons.

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06-18-2013, 10:28 AM
  #773
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
We're basically doing the same "on-the-fly" rebuild that happened in 2007.

True we're not nabbing Timonen, Hartnell, and Briere. Those guys just aren't available on the market. We're grabbing the next best thing (Streit) and acquiring guys we need. From there we'll let our young centers progress into the next leaders of this team.
No we aren't.

That team was full of youth, loaded with prospects, while Timonen and Briere were complimentary veterans that weren't past their prime at that point. They were in a much better position at that point.

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06-18-2013, 10:29 AM
  #774
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If I was the GM I would draft Hall of Fame players at every position and sign the best Free Agents every year for 1 millions dollars per year.

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06-18-2013, 10:29 AM
  #775
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Realistically yes, Homer should have been canned due to his gambles that didn't pay off. That being said he has one season to at least set the ground works for the next 3-5 years. You can bet he will do what he needs to make sure the team makes the playoffs this year (OR he will 100% be canned for sure). He still needs to clear space, so odds are we won't be seeing a combination of (Briere/Bryz/Coburn/Mesz) this season. Homer is the best forward drafting GM in the league, and I think this is how we will work on filling deficiencies going forward. Do we move Read+ to get Bernier and try and work with two younger goalies? That could potentially solidify the goaltending burden. Now on D, really what can be done to ice the best D corp? If we draft a Risto/Nurses/Zad/Pulock, none of these guys will have a major effect on the next 1-2 years. They are 3-4 years in any plan. Ghost is at least 1-2 years from any Pro impact. Do you really want to throw a crazy offer sheet at guys like Peits? Highly doubt a team won't match. So what is the right move?

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