HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Flyers sign Mark Streit to a multi-year deal [4 yrs, $21m; $5.25 AAV] (post #1)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-18-2013, 10:31 AM
  #776
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,277
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It seems like most of the good dmen come outside the first round anyways. And, that's probably the problem; we usually trade those picks away.
That is an interesting stance to take.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:33 AM
  #777
FLYERSFAN18
Registered User
 
FLYERSFAN18's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 1,882
vCash: 500
Well I guess we could move Read plus 2nd for Bernier and then trade a couple of firsts for a young PMD. Then we would need three top 9 players and have no picks to build for the future. LOL.

FLYERSFAN18 is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:34 AM
  #778
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 13,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
Well I guess we could move Read plus 2nd for Bernier and then trade a couple of firsts for a young PMD. Then we would need three top 9 players and have no picks to build for the future. LOL.
I honestly think if we offered Read for Bernier at the deadline, he would be a flyer today. What team is offering more than that?

Also I am not adding to Read to get him. Young potential goalies have value, but we have seen it time and time again, they don't hold a lot.

Prongo is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:36 AM
  #779
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
No we aren't.

That team was full of youth, loaded with prospects, while Timonen and Briere were complimentary veterans that weren't past their prime at that point. They were in a much better position at that point.


TEAM YOUTH
Giroux (25)
Mason (25)
Simmonds (24)
Gustafsson (24)
Voracek (23)
Rinaldo (23)
L. Schenn (23)
B. Schenn (21)
Couturier (20)

PROSPECTS
Cousins (20)
Gostisbehere (20)
Laughton (19)
(11th overall pick)

PRIME VETERANS
Hartnell (31)
Coburn (28)
Grossmann (28)
Read (27)

CS is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:36 AM
  #780
DecadesofFutility
Registered User
 
DecadesofFutility's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wilmington, Delaware
Country: United States
Posts: 439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Honestly if you think Coburn is not a top 4 defender you will not be taken serious. I don't know why you keep saying this.

Streit is better than Carle as well. The only difference is age.

Pronger would most likely still be playing at an elite level if he was still playing, you can't fault him in bringing in a Hall of Fame defender, but you somehow are.
Coburn is too soft to play a defensive roll and not skilled enough to be an offensive defenseman.
The only way I keep Coburn is if Grossman is not going to be able to play due to concussions.
Schenn and Grossman should be the top 2 defensive defensemen.
Coburn is being paid to much salary to play on 3rd pairing with Gustafsson.

IMHO, Streit is a 7 year older version of Carle.
Would rather have kept Carle if that was possible last year.
And traded Coburn while he still had some value.

I condemn Holmgren for ignoring the career ending injury to Pronger,
and not rebuilding the defense sooner.

DecadesofFutility is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:38 AM
  #781
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,868
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Coburn is too soft to play a defensive roll and not skilled enough to be an offensive defenseman.
The only way I keep Coburn is if Grossman is not going to be able to play due to concussions.
Schenn and Grossman should be the top 2 defensive defensemen.
Coburn is being paid to much salary to play on 3rd pairing with Gustafsson.

IMHO, Streit is a 7 year older version of Carle.
Would rather have kept Carle if that was possible last year.
And traded Coburn while he still had some value.

I condemn Holmgren for ignoring the career ending injury to Pronger,
and not rebuilding the defense sooner.
So really, you condemn Homer for not seeing Pronger's career ending injury in a magical crystal ball.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:39 AM
  #782
FLYERSFAN18
Registered User
 
FLYERSFAN18's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 1,882
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I honestly think if we offered Read for Bernier at the deadline, he would be a flyer today. What team is offering more than that?

Also I am not adding to Read to get him. Young potential goalies have value, but we have seen it time and time again, they don't hold a lot.
I am not a fan of that trade to be honest. I was pointing out the crazy stuff everyone wants to do. If we trade Read our forwards are

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
XXX-Schenn-Simmonds
XXX-Couts-XXX
Talbot-Laughton-Rinaldo

I want to move Schenn to Giroux's left wing and move Couts to 2nd line center and Laughton to the third line but I don't think Lavy will do that. At least to start off. To fill those holes we would likely have to sign at least 2 free agent forwards which we would likely be over paying for just like we did for Streit. Unless we want talbot playing on the third line which i do not want at all

FLYERSFAN18 is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:40 AM
  #783
kudymen
4, 15, 38 and 63
 
kudymen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Atlanta (Decatur)
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Coburn is too soft to play a defensive roll and not skilled enough to be an offensive defenseman.
The only way I keep Coburn is if Grossman is not going to be able to play due to concussions.
Schenn and Grossman should be the top 2 defensive defensemen.
Coburn is being paid to much salary to play on 3rd pairing with Gustafsson.

IMHO, Streit is a 7 year older version of Carle.
Would rather have kept Carle if that was possible last year.
And traded Coburn while he still had some value.

I condemn Holmgren for ignoring the career ending injury to Pronger,
and not rebuilding the defense sooner.
What the actual ****

kudymen is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:40 AM
  #784
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
So really, you condemn Homer for not seeing Pronger's career ending injury in a magical crystal ball.
That scream still creeps me the hell out. One of the more terrifying things I've ever seen happen to a "grown ass man."

Pronger was one of the toughest SoBs to ever play hockey. The way he went out was absolutely horrifying.

Nobody could have seen that.

CS is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:41 AM
  #785
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post


TEAM YOUTH
Giroux (25)
Mason (25)
Simmonds (24)
Gustafsson (24)
Voracek (23)
Rinaldo (23)
L. Schenn (23)
B. Schenn (21)
Couturier (20)

PROSPECTS
Cousins (20)
Gostisbehere (20)
Laughton (19)
(11th overall pick)

PRIME VETERANS
Hartnell (31)
Coburn (28)
Grossmann (28)
Read (27)
You're right they have a lot of youth so I misspoke, but the big point you're missing is that they are relying on two past their prime vets in key roles with no youth to replace them at this point. They also have much fewer assets to trade. They've already lost some offense and if they no longer have the depth to keep trading away forwards. Then there is the huge question mark in goal.


That team was a team on the rise. This is a team that remains stagnant due to the dinosaurs on defense.

Haute Couturier is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:42 AM
  #786
Larry44
FlyersTankNation
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,066
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
So really, you condemn Homer for not seeing Pronger's career ending injury in a magical crystal ball.
And for not doing anything about it after the fact, except, of course, acquiring Grossmann and Schenn and offering Suter more $ than he signed for in Minny, and giving the offer sheet to Weber.

Larry44 is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:42 AM
  #787
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post

I want to move Schenn to Giroux's left wing and move Couts to 2nd line center and Laughton to the third line but I don't think Lavy will do that. At least to start off. To fill those holes we would likely have to sign at least 2 free agent forwards which we would likely be over paying for just like we did for Streit. Unless we want talbot playing on the third line which i do not want at all
On a more interesting note, we will certainly have the money to do this should Holmgren go this direction. I'd like to see Gagne return.

That said, I'm 100% on the "move Schenn to Giroux's or Couturier's wing" boat. Sink or float? I want to give it a shot.

CS is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:43 AM
  #788
FLYERSFAN18
Registered User
 
FLYERSFAN18's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 1,882
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
On a more interesting note, we will certainly have the money to do this should Holmgren go this direction. I'd like to see Gagne return.

That said, I'm 100% on the "move Schenn to Giroux's or Couturier's wing" boat. Sink or float? I want to give it a shot.
Me too, but I doubt Lavy does that.

Schenn-Giroux-Simmonds
Hartnell-Couts-Voracek
Gagne/UFA-Laughton-Read

is not a bad top 9 at all

FLYERSFAN18 is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:44 AM
  #789
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
That team was a team on the rise. This is a team that remains stagnant due to the dinosaurs on defense.
We are kind of banking on the return of Coburn to form if his role is put back into perspective next to an actual PMD.

A 28-year-old Coburn, with no real injury history, will not regress for no reason. That's the basis of my theory that if you give him a real PMD, he will return to form.

Coburn has never been good as an anchor. He's ALWAYS struggled when carrying a pairing. On the other hand, he's always been lights out when next to someone who can move the puck for him.

My theory is not without context or just a blind prayer. I also think that Holmgren's moves so far in the offseason marry my opinion perfectly.

CS is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:47 AM
  #790
Brostradamus
LegionOfDoom Reunion
 
Brostradamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Dub C
Country: United States
Posts: 630
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
He gambled everything on Pronger winning us a cup.
He lost, we lost. Time for a new player(GM).
And in the professional sports world you don't trade for future Hall of Famers and assume they will have a freak accident injury that costs them their career. You can play the 20/20 hindsight game all day long but that Pronger move put us over the top and arguably got this team to the Stanley Cup Finals within two games of a parade. Injuries are unpredictable and part of the business. When you are trying to build a championship team you can't measure all of the possible variables. We can look back now and say "Gee those 1st rd picks sure would have helped." Yeah maybe, or we could have drafted busts that never crack an NHL roster, or they themselves get a freak injury who knows.

This issue this season was a rash of defensive injuries and the young forwards not progressing enough to carry the team like we all assumed. Goaltending is always an issue and yet again the office attempted to solve that problem with a franchise goalie. It didn't work as of yet and they may get a mulligan with the buyout being available. The offseason hasn't even begun yet and we have people ready to jump off the Walt Whitman and throw in the towel.

Brostradamus is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:48 AM
  #791
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 30,707
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post


TEAM YOUTH
Giroux (25)
Mason (25)
Simmonds (24)
Gustafsson (24)
Voracek (23)
Rinaldo (23)
L. Schenn (23)
B. Schenn (21)
Couturier (20)

PROSPECTS
Cousins (20)
Gostisbehere (20)
Laughton (19)
(11th overall pick)

PRIME VETERANS
Hartnell (31)
Coburn (28)
Grossmann (28)
Read (27)
I really hope the Streit signing isnt followed with Holmgren trading Gus for next to nothing. trading him as a "favor" to trade him to a team that will play him every night. Guys like Gustafsson are invaluable to a team. A guy that can step in and play on the middle and bottom pairing and not look out of place at a good cap hit.
Hopefully its Mez is the guy who is traded.

GoneFullHextall is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:49 AM
  #792
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Yeah, and what sucks is that, unless something dramatic happens in net...this team isn't a realistic contender right now. So around the time you'd expect their window to open, Streit will be entering his anchor years. It's pretty unlikely he'll be good at that age.
I think he's already on the cusp of his anchor years or might have just entered them. Yeah he doesn't have a lot of NHL mileage and has had only one major injury and been pretty reliable overall but when you sign players that age the crap just happens preciptiously. I mean when we got Pronger all the talk was that he took care of his body etc but we only got 1 good year out of him b/c the injuries started piling up (knee, back etc). Then he was knocked out of commission altogether which was a freak occurrence but he was starting to break down beforehand anyway.

I hope that will not be the case with Streit but the Flyers track record with older players isn't all that great.

I agree with Meltzer's take that the Flyers should have been a bit more patient and tried for a younger PMD. They JUMPED again like they did with Bryz on the best available known player for their need...... I hope for the GM's sake and ours we don't get burned again.

FreshPerspective is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:50 AM
  #793
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
I really hope the Streit signing isnt followed with Holmgren trading Gus for next to nothing. trading him as a "favor" to trade him to a team that will play him every night. Guys like Gustafsson are invaluable to a team. A guy that can step in and play on the middle and bottom pairing and not look out of place at a good cap hit.
Hopefully its Mez is the guy who is traded.
Holmgren trading Gus for next to nothing is about as likely as you getting hit by lightning on a Tuesday in the middle of a snowstorm in July at 5:34 in the morning.

Scratch that. Holmgren trading Gus at all is about as likely as that.

Holmgren trading Gus for next to nothing is more like you existing right here at this very moment at this very spot and suddenly being teleported by act of god to the farthest reaches of the universe the very next second.

CS is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:50 AM
  #794
Larry44
FlyersTankNation
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,066
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
You're right they have a lot of youth so I misspoke, but the big point you're missing is that they are relying on two past their prime vets in key roles with no youth to replace them at this point. They also have much fewer assets to trade. They've already lost some offense and if they no longer have the depth to keep trading away forwards. Then there is the huge question mark in goal.


That team was a team on the rise. This is a team that remains stagnant due to the dinosaurs on defense.
Gustafsson is developing into a reliable offensive Dman. Gostibehere has real speed and talent, and will certainly play in the NHL in the top 4. We've got a few other potential players from the last couple drafts. The cupboard is not bare. Luke is young. Coburn is not old either.

The fact is, if Pronger was still playing, the team would probably still be playing now....They gave up a lot to get him, he got hurt unforeseeably. Homer tried his best to get Suter or Weber to replace him. He couldn't. It wasn't like they didn't open their pocketbook.

Having two wily vets like Streit and Timonen will really help all the extensive youth develop. When Kimmo retires, they'll have Streit to transition to the next group. Ghost will come a few years. Lauridsen might be ready by later this year. Gus will be in the lineup.

We need to buy out Bryz as well as Briere, find a cheaper goalie to partner with Mason (Halak or Bernier, preferably) and go from there.

Larry44 is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:50 AM
  #795
CharlieGirl
Registered User
 
CharlieGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kitchener, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,836
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That scream still creeps me the hell out. One of the more terrifying things I've ever seen happen to a "grown ass man."

Pronger was one of the toughest SoBs to ever play hockey. The way he went out was absolutely horrifying.

Nobody could have seen that.
You're right. No one could have expected an immediate career ending injury.

However, Pronger had a string of far less serious injuries in the few years leading up to that and, as a 37 year old defenseman playing upwards of 20 minutes a night, it's not a stretch to say the chances of more injuries were high. It just goes with the territory when you're dealing with players over 35 years of age.

CharlieGirl is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:51 AM
  #796
BillDineen
Registered User
 
BillDineen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,657
vCash: 500
I have seen some head scratchers on here, but this is approaching a new high.

Fans have been going on about improving the D since season end, hoping that drafting a D at the 11th spot will some how turn into a future No. 1, fantasizing about trades for young D that other teams either will not trade for a reason (they have that potential) or will trade for a reason (that they are unlikely to turn into a top pairing or are overpaid for what they bring).

Then Homer signs the top D available as a UFA for what everyone knew he would get and maybe 1 more year than fans wanted and it is the end of the world?

Streit's contract is better than Carle's. TB fans are regretting that one.

Streit is not perfect, but will help the 2nd PP unit (or replace Timonen on 1rst and have Timonen improve the 2nd) and provide a 1rst unit replacement for Timonen should he retire next year. If Timonen retires next year who would be on the first PP unit? Please don't say Carle would have. Meszaros would have been a better option if healthy, but he will be gone as a UFA regardless.

BillDineen is online now  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:52 AM
  #797
DecadesofFutility
Registered User
 
DecadesofFutility's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wilmington, Delaware
Country: United States
Posts: 439
vCash: 500
I would prefer to draft Pulock or Morrisey with the pick at #11.
Then I would pick another offensive minded defenseman with our 2nd pick.

But, if the Flyers plan to draft another center with their pick at #11,
I suggest they trade one of their other centers (Laughton or Couts)
and Coburn/Mezzaros for best young PMD available from the Coyotes, Blues, Bruins etc.
Of course, we might need to add a 2nd rounder for 2014.

DecadesofFutility is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:52 AM
  #798
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 13,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Coburn is too soft to play a defensive roll and not skilled enough to be an offensive defenseman.
The only way I keep Coburn is if Grossman is not going to be able to play due to concussions.
Schenn and Grossman should be the top 2 defensive defensemen.
Coburn is being paid to much salary to play on 3rd pairing with Gustafsson.

IMHO, Streit is a 7 year older version of Carle.
Would rather have kept Carle if that was possible last year.
And traded Coburn while he still had some value.

I condemn Holmgren for ignoring the career ending injury to Pronger,
and not rebuilding the defense sooner.
Okay piece by piece I will show why you are wrong right here.

Coburn. Stats don't lie do they? Now let's look at Coburns numbers from this year and years past.

TOIPG-22:36
ESTOI-18:45
PPTOI-:23
PKTOI-3:28

Last year

TOIPG-22:02
ESTOI-18:22
PPTOI-:21
PKTOI-3:19

He was third on the team because Carle and Pronger were paired together. Coburn was with Kimmo. Carle was not the #2 on this team either. Kimmo was, but you split them up to have two outstanding d-pairings.

Now we all know he isn't used on the PP. You say he is too "soft" defensively but he averaged the most minutes on our whole defensive squad primarily playing in a defensive role this year.

Besides Kimmo, he is the most established top 4 NHL defender we have, so just simple language you are wrong.


Carle will never, I will repeat never, have the offensive game that Streit does. Streit has outproduced Carle in every facet of the offensive game, and that is even when Carle was paired with a hall of famer in Pronger. Streit hit 60 points once and also had 59. The last two years he is at 49 and 47. He had 27 this year, pro-rated it would be close to his average the last 2 years. He has a better shot than Carle, and they are close defensively.

You condemn Homer for not rebuilding the defense since Pronger has gone down? It was last year. He is trying to piece together a defense now in the absent of a hall of famer who nobody saw his downfall coming. He is doing exactly what you are condemning him for, trying to replace Pronger.

Prongo is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:54 AM
  #799
Slowbro
Registered User
 
Slowbro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 903
vCash: 500
how the **** does Holmgren still have a job?

Slowbro is offline  
Old
06-18-2013, 10:54 AM
  #800
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
I have seen some head scratchers on here, but this is approaching a new high.

Fans have been going on about improving the D since season end, hoping that drafting a D at the 11th spot will some how turn into a future No. 1, fantasizing about trades for young D that other teams either will not trade for a reason (they have that potential) or will trade for a reason (that they are unlikely to turn into a top pairing or are overpaid for what they bring).

Then Homer signs the top D available as a UFA for what everyone knew he would get and maybe 1 more year than fans wanted and it is the end of the world?

Streit's contract is better than Carle's. TB fans are regretting that one.

Streit is not perfect, but will help the 2nd PP unit (or replace Timonen on 1rst and have Timonen improve the 2nd) and provide a 1rst unit replacement for Timonen should he retire next year. If Timonen retires next year who would be on the first PP unit? Please don't say Carle would have. Meszaros would have been a better option if healthy, but he will be gone as a UFA regardless.



Timonen won't be around (as much as I wish he would be).

Streit, even as a 3rd pairing defenseman down the road toward the end of his career, does a lot to give guys like Gustafsson, Gostisbehere, and any other young talent we bring in a great guy to look up to.

Streit is as classy a veteran as Timonen. We all love Timonen. We will love Streit if we don't expect him to be Timonen. Hell, we can't even expect Timonen to be Timonen for much longer.

CS is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:41 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.