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Old
06-18-2013, 10:46 AM
  #76
Cursed Lemon
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What in the world is possessing you people to put Tavares over Datsyuk?

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06-18-2013, 10:48 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Would you take Pacioretty over Nash, then? Because as far as I'm concerned, he's been a better point producer over the last two years and never has he been mentioned (rightfully so) anywhere close to top 10 lists. Nash is living off his reputation. He's a 60-70 points winger that can give you 30 goals a season. He's not a superstar, nor is he an offensive juggernaut. He's the average 1st line winger, the type most teams have.

James Neal shouldn't be anywhere close to top 10 lists either.
Oh i am sure the argument will be he is only 21 but what has Hall actual done besides show he can't stay healthy and yet hasn't reached the 30 goal or 60 point plateau?

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06-18-2013, 10:50 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Don't forget Sam Gagner. Apparently he's a number one centre nowadays.
Says who?!

Let's try and keep the thread mature, civil, not griping with obvious attempts to troll (a tiny minority of) other fanbases.

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06-18-2013, 10:50 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
What in the world is possessing you people to put Tavares over Datsyuk?
They are 21 year old kids who haven't watched Datsyuk over his entire career. They are into the flavor of the month players.

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06-18-2013, 10:53 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
What in the world is possessing you people to put Tavares over Datsyuk?
I thought it was supposed to be list of top 10, not in any particular order but oh well.

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Old
06-18-2013, 10:55 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
I said Toews (and others) outscored their linemates by a greater margin than Tavares did. That does not involve Kane, because Kane is not Toews' linemate.
tavares will start outscoring his linemates by a wide margin when the NHL starts dishing out assists for goals that should have been scored by a linemate or goals for a terrible pass by a linemate when in a good scoring position.....watch a game buddy

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06-18-2013, 10:55 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
So you won't include Tavares because he's young and hasn't proven anything.... but you include Hall, Karlsson, OEL and Pieterangelo?
No position currently in the NHL is currently as deep as center.

If Tavares' center competition was that of Hall's wing competition, he might make it in.
Karlsson is a defenseman and scored at about an even PPG with Tavares over the past 2 yrs. pro-rated over a full year, Tav would score 3 pts more than EK.
OEL had a great year this year, he's great defensively, and he was great last year. He's a fantastic player.
Pietrangelo was 4th in Norris voting last year (deservedly) and has proven himself over the last 3 years

Matt Moulson had a higher Pts/60 than Tavares this year. But he's not really a star player and he's not flashy and wasn't drafted high, so, Tavares obviously gets it done with nothing.

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06-18-2013, 10:59 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
No position currently in the NHL is currently as deep as center.

If Tavares' center competition was that of Hall's wing competition, he might make it in.
Karlsson is a defenseman and scored at about an even PPG with Tavares over the past 2 yrs. pro-rated over a full year, Tav would score 3 pts more than EK.
OEL had a great year this year, he's great defensively, and he was great last year. He's a fantastic player.
Pietrangelo was 4th in Norris voting last year (deservedly) and has proven himself over the last 3 years

Matt Moulson had a higher Pts/60 than Tavares this year. But he's not really a star player and he's not flashy and wasn't drafted high, so, Tavares obviously gets it done with nothing.
once again, watch a game...i hate to keep saying it, but if you put moulson in the same conversation with tavares, it is laughable...

moulson floats and is a good finisher within 10 feet, i will give him that, but he doesnt do ANYTHING else

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Old
06-18-2013, 11:24 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
What has Nash done?

I know you're only supporting him because you're a Ranger fan.

I'm a die hard Ranger fan and I think Nash is one of the worst contracts in the NHL and was one of the most overrated players in the league when we acquired him.

This was a GOOD regular season for Nash. And Hall was still every bit as good. Than, factor in that Nash was a passenger in the post season, did absolutely nothing, and didn't play hurt on his own account. Then factor in that he wasn't even the best forward on our team, and that Lundqvist/Stepan were the biggest reasons for our post season appearance, and I think it goes even more into Hall's favor. I'm not saying Hall is better than Nash, but you can't really argue that Nash is better in the present day.

Just because he's a Ranger it doesn't mean we have to act like he is a top player in the league. I feel like Ranger fans keep trying to convince themselves that Nash is an elite forward because he has a $7.8 million contract and we are stuck with him for a LONG time. In reality, he's a 30 goal / 60 point winger for the better part of his career. It is what it is.

You don't know much about my posting history regarding Nash, do you? I can't stand him. I didn't want the Rangers to trade for him, and I honestly feel that many of the problems the team had this year can be attributed to him (he has a reputation for being a horrible locker room guy). I DO think he's one of the worst contracts in the league, and if I could undo the Nash and Gaborik trades, I would do it in an instant.

This thread, however, isn't about contracts. It's about using the past accomplishments of a player to determine top ten lists at the present time. And based on what Nash and Hall have shown us, there is no reasonable argument for placing Hall over Nash today.

(also, I just had a WCW flashback with all of these "Hall and Nash" references. Yikes).

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06-18-2013, 11:29 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Tattoo View Post
Oh i am sure the argument will be he is only 21 but what has Hall actual done besides show he can't stay healthy and yet hasn't reached the 30 goal or 60 point plateau?
He's had a better ppg then Nash in each of the last two seasons.

He's surely in the conversation when it comes to who has been the better player in the last couple of years.

Nash likely isn't getting any better, and Hall still looks to be on an upward trajectory. I'd say they are pretty even given their recent level of play and Hall is the better bet moving forward.

This isn't about who has had the better career, OP is asking for who has been the best players in the last 2-3 seasons.

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Old
06-18-2013, 11:46 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
What in the world is possessing you people to put Tavares over Datsyuk?
Tavares and Toews are two of the more overrated players in the league. I don't have either of them in my top 10, let alone top 5.

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06-18-2013, 11:50 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Centres:
Crosby
Malkin
Stamkos
Datsyuk
Giroux
Spezza
Staal
Zetterberg
Getzlaf
Backstrom

Wingers:
Ovechkin
St. Louis
Hall
P. Kane
Kessel
Semin
Vanek
Nash
Sedin
Perry

Defencemen:
Karlsson
Chara
Weber
Suter
Doughty
OEL
Subban
Pietrangelo
Letang
Girardi
Quote:
Originally Posted by skillhockey View Post
Great list.
Thanks...but I just realized I forgot about Kovalchuk.

Ovechkin
Kovalchuk
St. Louis
Hall
P. Kane
Kessel
Semin
Vanek
Nash
Sedin

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06-18-2013, 11:51 AM
  #88
Trafalgar Law
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Tavares and Toews are two of the more overrated players in the league. I don't have either of them in my top 10, let alone top 5.
Because Datsyuk is really underrated right?

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06-18-2013, 11:56 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Anaheim Ducks View Post
No Getzlaf or Perry, must be a Sharks fan.
Just like the guy 2 posts below you with the Islanders avatar. Okay.

Perry is not very good defensively and he wasn't that good the last 2 years, he and Getzlaf (who was good this year but awful last year) need to step it up. Don't get your panties in a knot.

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06-18-2013, 11:57 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigmatic View Post
once again, watch a game...i hate to keep saying it, but if you put moulson in the same conversation with tavares, it is laughable...

moulson floats and is a good finisher within 10 feet, i will give him that, but he doesnt do ANYTHING else
Why is it that he has more pts/60 than Tavares if he drags JT down?

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06-18-2013, 11:57 AM
  #91
Cujomi
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
Because Datsyuk is really underrated right?
Never said that he was.

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06-18-2013, 12:00 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Thanks...but I just realized I forgot about Kovalchuk.

Ovechkin
Kovalchuk
St. Louis
Hall
P. Kane
Kessel
Semin
Vanek
Nash
Sedin
I noticed it also but after i agreed , better now.

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Old
06-18-2013, 12:13 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Why is it that he has more pts/60 than Tavares if he drags JT down?
Edit: he doesn't. Tavares has three more points than Moulson.

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Old
06-18-2013, 12:19 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by skillhockey View Post
I noticed it also but after i agreed , better now.
It's still missing Hossa.

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06-18-2013, 12:46 PM
  #95
Fataldogg
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
You don't know much about my posting history regarding Nash, do you? I can't stand him. I didn't want the Rangers to trade for him, and I honestly feel that many of the problems the team had this year can be attributed to him (he has a reputation for being a horrible locker room guy). I DO think he's one of the worst contracts in the league, and if I could undo the Nash and Gaborik trades, I would do it in an instant.

This thread, however, isn't about contracts. It's about using the past accomplishments of a player to determine top ten lists at the present time. And based on what Nash and Hall have shown us, there is no reasonable argument for placing Hall over Nash today.

(also, I just had a WCW flashback with all of these "Hall and Nash" references. Yikes).
Well, Nash certainly has more to his resume, but that's also because he has played in the NHL longer. Today, just how these players played this season, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Hall has an edge. And the scary part is, Hall is much younger. Whether he had more assists or not, Hall out produced him. They're very different players, but I think it's more than reasonable to say that Hall is better than Nash.

In their last two seasons;

Nash 126GP 51G 50A 101PTS

Hall 106GP 43G 60A 103PTS

Like I said, over the last two years, Nash has done nothing to suggest he is better than Hall.

Sure, Nash won a Rocket Richard in 03-04, along with two other players, but that was in... 03-04.

You're talking 10 years ago since Nash accomplished anything.

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:15 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Fair enough.... then Chicago should have no problem with a Moulson-Sharp swap, I'd even add to it as an Islander fan.
You'd probably have to, although probably not much.

Quote:
How about Moulson for Zets?
Zetterberg is the best player on any of Chicago, Detroit, or NYI. Are you out of your mind?

Quote:
I'd trade both Tavares wingers and our first for either Pavelski or Marleau without even blinking an eye. Ask LAK fans if they would be willing to take Moulson back for Dustin Brown..... I can tell you the answer now, if you'd like.
Being fair, Brown's scoring level isn't that far below Moulson's over the past few years (except this year, when his points tied Moulson's assists) ... and he brings a lot more away from the puck.

Quote:
Tavares linemates are so close to him in scoring.... because when they do score, Tavares is a big part of it more often than not. Amazing concept, I know
If Tavares is in on all or most of Moulson's and Boyes' points, then the reverse would also then be true. Tavares is not Pavel Bure or Steve Yzerman, guys who truly had nothing to work with.

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Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
You're talking 10 years ago since Nash accomplished anything.
Nash dragged the Jackets to the playoffs in 2009 with a 40-goal season...

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:20 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Why is it that he has more pts/60 than Tavares if he drags JT down?
I'll tell you what, Matt Moulson is so great.... would you trade Joe Pavelski for him? The Islanders will throw in their first rounder.

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:23 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post

If Tavares is in on all or most of Moulson's and Boyes' points, then the reverse would also then be true. Tavares is not Pavel Bure or Steve Yzerman, guys who truly had nothing to work with.
Because all assists are the same, right? Seriously, you've got no freaking clue what you're talking about. You just hate Tavares because he's in a million posts here.

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:25 PM
  #99
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I'm just gonna say this: Zetterberg is heavily underrated. Also, Nash to a certain extent.

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:33 PM
  #100
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Here's every goal Tavares scored this year.... how many of them were seriously helped by his linemates?



Those guys got a lot of vulture assists.... if they could finish half the opportunities JT gave them, he would have likely won the Hart and maybe even the Art Ross. He was about 20 assists below his pace from the season prior..... I wonder why that was.

I also like how everyone brings up PaP, but no one gives JT credit for Brad Boyes turning it around. The only time this kid has had legitimate help on the wing..... he's led team Canada in scoring from the third line.

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