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Flyers sign Mark Streit to a multi-year deal [4 yrs, $21m; $5.25 AAV] (post #1)

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06-18-2013, 10:54 AM
  #801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
You're right. No one could have expected an immediate career ending injury.

However, Pronger had a string of far less serious injuries in the few years leading up to that and, as a 37 year old defenseman playing upwards of 20 minutes a night, it's not a stretch to say the chances of more injuries were high. It just goes with the territory when you're dealing with players over 35 years of age.
yup I made the same point..

People have short memories..Pronger was starting to break down with all sorts of injuries and he even said he didn't understand what was going on and was frustrated.

I understood real well what was going on...age progression! You can't stop it no matter how much you think you take care of your body as Snider and Holmgren would repeatedly say.

Pronger would be still playing if he didn't get that freak injury but maybe on avg 50 games a season....

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06-18-2013, 10:55 AM
  #802
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Holmgren trading Gus for next to nothing is about as likely as you getting hit by lightning on a Tuesday in the middle of a snowstorm in July at 5:34 in the morning.

Scratch that. Holmgren trading Gus at all is about as likely as that.

Holmgren trading Gus for next to nothing is more like you existing right here at this very moment at this very spot and suddenly being teleported by act of god to the farthest reaches of the universe the very next second.
LOL.
So using Holmgrenlogic it has a good chance to happen

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06-18-2013, 11:00 AM
  #803
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Streit's contract is better than Carle's. TB fans are regretting that one.
It's only better b/c he didn't go on the open market...Carle could have been kept at a more reasonable price and years and he's pretty durable. His offensive skills particularly on the PP are not comparable but everything else was and he was slightly better from a D perspective. Like Meltzer noted..Flyers had tagging space during the season to get a deal done for Carle but they let him hang while they extended other players like Coburn.

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06-18-2013, 11:14 AM
  #804
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
It's only better b/c he didn't go on the open market...Carle could have been kept at a more reasonable price and years and he's pretty durable. His offensive skills particularly on the PP are not comparable but everything else was and he was slightly better from a D perspective. Like Meltzer noted..Flyers had tagging space during the season to get a deal done for Carle but they let him hang while they extended other players like Coburn.
No thanks

I'm glad Carle is gone

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06-18-2013, 11:15 AM
  #805
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im glad Carle is gone as well. Look at his play down in TB this season. Didnt take long for the TB fans to start cursing at him.

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06-18-2013, 11:23 AM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Okay piece by piece I will show why you are wrong right here.

Coburn. Stats don't lie do they? Now let's look at Coburns numbers from this year and years past.

TOIPG-22:36
ESTOI-18:45
PPTOI-:23
PKTOI-3:28

Last year

TOIPG-22:02
ESTOI-18:22
PPTOI-:21
PKTOI-3:19

He was third on the team because Carle and Pronger were paired together. Coburn was with Kimmo. Carle was not the #2 on this team either. Kimmo was, but you split them up to have two outstanding d-pairings.

Now we all know he isn't used on the PP. You say he is too "soft" defensively but he averaged the most minutes on our whole defensive squad primarily playing in a defensive role this year.

Besides Kimmo, he is the most established top 4 NHL defender we have, so just simple language you are wrong.


Carle will never, I will repeat never, have the offensive game that Streit does. Streit has outproduced Carle in every facet of the offensive game, and that is even when Carle was paired with a hall of famer in Pronger. Streit hit 60 points once and also had 59. The last two years he is at 49 and 47. He had 27 this year, pro-rated it would be close to his average the last 2 years. He has a better shot than Carle, and they are close defensively.

You condemn Homer for not rebuilding the defense since Pronger has gone down? It was last year. He is trying to piece together a defense now in the absent of a hall of famer who nobody saw his downfall coming. He is doing exactly what you are condemning him for, trying to replace Pronger.
Stats do lie, and people manipulate them anytime they wish to make a point.

The fact that he played so much on the top pairing and the defense was so bad is enough proof for me.

He does not hit like Schenn or Grossman, so he is soft. Period.

Streit is a player on the downside of career, Carle should be entering his prime as a player.

Rebuilding a defense does not consist of constantly buying the top free agent defenseman, and
neglecting to develop any defensive propects due to focusing on center position exclusively.

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06-18-2013, 11:28 AM
  #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Stats do lie, and people manipulate them anytime they wish to make a point.

The fact that he played so much on the top pairing and the defense was so bad is enough proof for me.

He does not hit like Schenn or Grossman, so he is soft. Period.

Streit is a player on the downside of career, Carle should be entering his prime as a player.

Rebuilding a defense does not consist of constantly buying the top free agent defenseman, and
neglecting to develop any defensive propects due to focusing on center position exclusively.
So what would your solution to our problem have been? Sit and do nothing for three years while Ghost and our 11th pick develop?

What harm does this signing do? Streit is a huge improvement on our D. He's much better than Carle. Sure, he's going to regress soon, but by that time, we'll have Ghost and our 11th pick coming through the pipeline. Is that really so bad?

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06-18-2013, 11:28 AM
  #808
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Matt carle was Tb worse defender last season. He was getting eaten alive. Dont care if he is enterting his prime, Streit is easily the better player and honestly probablly will be the next 2-3 years.

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06-18-2013, 11:30 AM
  #809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
So what would your solution to our problem have been? Sit and do nothing for three years while Ghost and our 11th pick develop?

What harm does this signing do? Streit is a huge improvement on our D. He's much better than Carle. Sure, he's going to regress soon, but by that time, we'll have Ghost and our 11th pick coming through the pipeline. Is that really so bad?
I think some wanted to trade Couturier + for Yandle which would have been beyond stupid.

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06-18-2013, 11:36 AM
  #810
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I think some wanted to trade Couturier + for Yandle which would have been beyond stupid.
I was never strongly against Couts for Yandle straight up, but admittedly I went back and forth on it. Signing Streit (even to this contract) is a much, much better scenario.

Seriously, consider our options:

1) Do nothing. Wait for Gostisbehere and Risto/Morrissey/Morin/etc. to develop. Waste away the next couple seasons while we wait for this.

2) Fix the D problem for the long term through trade (ie, Yandle). This would cost Couturier or Schenn at the minimum.

3) Fix the D problem for the short term through trade. This would cost Read or Laughton at the minimum.

4) Fix the D problem for the short term through UFA. This costs nothing but cap space which we have.


Which one of those looks to be the best? Yeah, it's not exactly close.

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Old
06-18-2013, 11:36 AM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Matt carle was Tb worse defender last season. He was getting eaten alive. Dont care if he is enterting his prime, Streit is easily the better player and honestly probablly will be the next 2-3 years.
I seem to recall that among Tampa fans Carle's brainfarts which he always had were magnified even more so than here b/c of that contract that he has..otherwise he was still playing big minutes for them. Anyway, if Streit holds up and is above average considering his contract...I will be fine. Just have my doubts...


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 06-18-2013 at 11:45 AM. Reason: sp
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06-18-2013, 11:43 AM
  #812
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The only way I would have thought about bringing Carle back would have been at the same caphit (3.4?) for about 3 years. Anymore than that would be ridiculous.

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06-18-2013, 11:54 AM
  #813
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My oh my, I came here to add a post to the ongoing Streit discussion. It was like walking into a Tarantino gunfight.

Sorry to somewhat ignore the past 3 pages of everything that is/isn't wrong with the Flyers franchise, but I was thinking of a different tack on evaluating the Streit deal, prompted by this end-of-school-year period, and with my wife (the elementary schoolteacher) furiously (in all senses of the word) completing the report cards for her students. Here goes:
1. Deal improves the Flyers’ immediate roster: B+
2. Deal strengthens / has significant probability of strengthening the roster in the long term: C
3. Deal addresses a significant roster need: B+
4. Deal adds one or more players who are expected to contribute positively off the ice: A
5. Deal avoids the loss of significant assets: A
6. Deal improves the cap situation: D-
7. Deal was the best available (as far as is known): C+
8. Deal sticks it to the Penguins organization: D

Weighing out these grades, I would give the Streit deal an overall grade of C+.

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06-18-2013, 12:11 PM
  #814
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So we passed.

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06-18-2013, 12:11 PM
  #815
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Not sure if it's been brought up, but Streit was 2nd amongst Islanders defensemen in ATOI during the regular season this year and dropped to 5th in the playoffs, playing over three less minutes per game. Not the most encouraging statistic, especially considering his age.

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06-18-2013, 12:12 PM
  #816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haanz View Post
Not sure if it's been brought up, but Streit was 2nd amongst Islanders defensemen in ATOI during the regular season this year and dropped to 5th in the playoffs, playing over three less minutes per game. Not the most encouraging statistic, especially considering his age.
He's being paid to be a 2nd pairing d-man; not a 1st.

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06-18-2013, 12:20 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
He's being paid to be a 2nd pairing d-man; not a 1st.
He was clearly counted on as one of their top defensemen all season long until the playoffs came along. Him being the only defenseman on their roster whose ATOI decreased in the playoffs is definitely cause for concern.

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06-18-2013, 12:21 PM
  #818
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Now to address some of the recently posted nuclear explosions. As CharlieGirl (I just want to underline the second part of this compound word for the person who referred to her as 'he') pointed out, the 3 positions – forward, defense, and goal – are somewhat disjointed in their developmental curve (okay, she may have said it more emphatically). I agree to a point, as the team is relying too much on end-of-career vets on defense; however, IF they stay the course with their draft picks to stock high-quality defensive prospects, things won't look as dire. I like that L Schenn is able to learn on-ice from Timonen and has Pronger mentoring him, and hopefully Gustafsson will be privy to that same well of knowledge. Beyond them, I agree there is little to get hugely excited about on the farm; hopefully Gostisbehere continues his development and tops out to his ability ceiling.

That being said, I haven't the slightest idea what to expect from a defensive corps that seemed to improve in this weird season as the NHLers fell to injuries. Sure, it was an aberration, but there are so many question marks: health (Grossmann, Meszaros), consistency (Coburn), salary shedding, whether L Schenn will follow up a strong season with a weak one, which seems to be his MO, etc. On paper, they look balanced, even with dealing Meszaros for magic beans.

As for goaltending, even as the Bryzgalov bank heist is blowing up in Snider and Holmgren's faces, I haven't given up hope that he can provide good to very good goaltending, especially now that the team has a 1a whom the coach will actually put in net during a game. All the same, I'd just go ahead and staple the compliance buyout form over Bryzgalov's dressing room stall for use sometime in 2014. However, if the buyout + rumoured trade (Read for Bernier) goes down, it will be an intriguing new chapter in the saga of Flyers goaltending to see how Bernier + Mason do.

And I am absolutely a believer in the urgent need to improve team defense. Watching Boston and Chicago's positionally sound own-zone pack mentality combined with the simple short passes to exit their zones makes me audibly sigh at how bloody effortless they make it look. I hope Laviolette is preparing a best-of video from these playoffs on defensive-zone coverage and 5-player puck movement. At the very least, Peter, please, please! make the defensemen stop the strategy to pass back and forth behind the net until one coughs up the puck.

Where the team stands right now, I'm a glass two-third full fan. They definitely have the talent to make it to the playoffs, especially if the sophomore slumps are shaken off, but will likely be tripped up in the doing by some easily avoidable problems and self-inflicted wounds.

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06-18-2013, 12:22 PM
  #819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
He's being paid to be a 2nd pairing d-man; not a 1st.
And by the latter half of his contract he'll be playing like a 6th dman

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06-18-2013, 12:22 PM
  #820
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So we passed.
Yes, but no smiley-face sticker on the take-home sheet.

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06-18-2013, 12:27 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by Haanz View Post
Not sure if it's been brought up, but Streit was 2nd amongst Islanders defensemen in ATOI during the regular season this year and dropped to 5th in the playoffs, playing over three less minutes per game. Not the most encouraging statistic, especially considering his age.
maybe the fact during this 6 game span they were playing Pittsburgh and were trying to play tight has something to do with that stat.

plus very few pp opportunities. Did not check but maybe lots of PK time.

if Snow offered 3 yrs, he must not be completely finished.

great 2nd pairing player if you ask me. perfect on pp. great attitude.

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06-18-2013, 12:36 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by MSSLYNX View Post
maybe the fact during this 6 game span they were playing Pittsburgh and were trying to play tight has something to do with that stat.

plus very few pp opportunities. Did not check but maybe lots of PK time.

if Snow offered 3 yrs, he must not be completely finished.

great 2nd pairing player if you ask me. perfect on pp. great attitude.
Isn't playing tight defensive hockey what the playoffs are all about though?

I'm not saying Streit can't be useful - he's a great second pairing player like you said and without question fills a major need. I just find that statistic a bit worrisome for a now $5.25M per season defenseman.

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06-18-2013, 12:37 PM
  #823
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I can't get over the length of this deal for a 35+ contract. This is really just kicking the can down the road.

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06-18-2013, 01:34 PM
  #824
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Kimmo-Luke
Streit-Coburn
Guss-Gross


Puck mover on every pairing I love, finally address the big problem on our D, and I personally think adding Streit and Gus full time greatly improves our D compared to last year. People calling Mezz useless are With only 1 year remaining the FLyers will get a 4th rounder for him quite easily imo.

Addressing the contract, I like everyone else hate the 4th year, but getting the top UFA dman who happens to fulfill our biggest need for 5.25 is fair market value and we are a better team today than we were last year. Lets save the for if down the road Streit gets a career ending injury.

Buyout Bryz and Danny and trade Read for Bernier and away we go !!

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06-18-2013, 02:08 PM
  #825
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I still say the Flyers should keep Mez for one of the several injuries they will incur over the season. Surely, Mez will be one of them, but others will get injured as well. Having Mez around will be very helpful. I remember a few years ago when the Flyers had a glut of defensemen and traded (I believe) Weinrich to the Blues and then were hurt with a rash of injuries to the defense. Mez is good to have around because he brings depth.

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