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What exactly does Messier currently do for the organization?

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Old
06-18-2013, 12:19 PM
  #26
I Am Chariot
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Seems to me this is just another way of saying you have no idea what he does for the Rangers organization on a day to day basis.
I do not. And I suspect neither do you.

I am open to the idea that the executive branch of the NY Rangers is doing good work, even if they do not advertise every move, meeting, strategy.

The thread implies Messier is a weak hire, perhaps is really doing nothing but taking up space and collecting a check.

I find that implication to be disrespectful, absent of any credible sources.

The Mark Messier I am familiar with is a pretty intense guy. He hates to lose, loves to win and was one of the great players of the game. I have no problem with the franchise having him as part of the exec team.

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06-18-2013, 12:21 PM
  #27
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This logic is just like saying that anyone who works in a company shouldnt have any side projects or startups...
We dont know how much work he actually gets from the Rangers. For all we know he gets an office and just sits in there all day...
If he gets an office and sits there all day that reinforces what many in the thread have said.

So you think he does all this other stuff on the weekends or nights after he leaves MSG? Which is what most other people do.

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06-18-2013, 12:23 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
My particular issue with Messier stems from him turning down the Edmonton Oilers' head coaching position last year, expressing interest in and interviewing for the Rangers head coaching position this year, then bowing out of consideration for the assistant coaching position.
Have you ever been to Edmonton? Nice city , but very different from NYC

As far as being "interested" in the Rangers Coaching job. Because that's what he said. He was interested. I bet watching this team the last few years would make him interested in implementing some changes. I get it. Why disrespect?

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06-18-2013, 12:30 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by I Am Chariot View Post
Have you ever been to Edmonton? Nice city , but very different from NYC

As far as being "interested" in the Rangers Coaching job. Because that's what he said. He was interested. I bet watching this team the last few years would make him interested in implementing some changes. I get it. Why disrespect?
Because if you want to coach, you take a coaching job. If you want to be a career executive, you don't go after coaching jobs. If you want to feed your ego, you go after the highest position available regardless.

EDIT: And I obviously don't know Messier on a personal level, but that's just how it comes across.

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06-18-2013, 12:32 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
So how does all the "Pretty" stuff relate to asking what he actually does for the organization on a day to day basis?

How does all the "Pretty" stuff translate to him learning a craft while at the same time having multiple outside interests?
I guess the short answer is... I dont care what he does at the office. I dont need to know what the daily routine is, who makes the coffee, who's prank calling Lou Lams, who's doing what where and when.

I just care if they win, or at least take steps towards being more competitive on the ice.

Messier still has his head in the game, weather he's making helmets or building interest and enterprise throughout the hockey community, he's an intense guy. With 6 cups, a bunch of scars, some guys loved him, some hated him. He never seemed to care more about that then winning. In his prime, he gave it all on the ice, eventually time catches up with the body... but the mind is still there.

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06-18-2013, 12:35 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Greg02 View Post
Because if you want to coach, you take a coaching job. If you want to be a career executive, you don't go after coaching jobs. If you want to feed your ego, you go after the highest position available regardless.

EDIT: And I obviously don't know Messier on a personal level, but that's just how it comes across.

I suspect that Messier wants to win the CUP

The fact that he would even consider "interest" in coaching the present roster is the thing that seems to escape everyone.

He's not looking to lose, he sees something of great promise in the core or this roster. That should be the real focus... very positive.

But that me.... the glass is always half full

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06-18-2013, 01:02 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by I Am Chariot View Post
Have you ever been to Edmonton? Nice city , but very different from NYC

As far as being "interested" in the Rangers Coaching job. Because that's what he said. He was interested. I bet watching this team the last few years would make him interested in implementing some changes. I get it. Why disrespect?
I'm sure that Edmonton is much nicer than some of the AHL and Junior cities/towns other players have honed their coaching craft...I'm sure if I had my choice I would take Edmonton over Worcester, Albany, Rochester etc

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06-18-2013, 01:03 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by I Am Chariot View Post
I guess the short answer is... I dont care what he does at the office. I dont need to know what the daily routine is, who makes the coffee, who's prank calling Lou Lams, who's doing what where and when.

I just care if they win, or at least take steps towards being more competitive on the ice.

Messier still has his head in the game, weather he's making helmets or building interest and enterprise throughout the hockey community, he's an intense guy. With 6 cups, a bunch of scars, some guys loved him, some hated him. He never seemed to care more about that then winning. In his prime, he gave it all on the ice, eventually time catches up with the body... but the mind is still there.
So you don't care if he's learning anything or not since he has the "will" to win maybe he should be the Commissioner

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06-18-2013, 01:36 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
So you don't care if he's learning anything or not since he has the "will" to win maybe he should be the Commissioner
Maybe he really is the Messiah

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06-18-2013, 02:37 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Maybe he really is the Messiah
Nah, just Edmonton royalty.

We set up camp at that well 20 something years ago and never left.

There's literally thousands of options that have come and gone....

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06-18-2013, 02:44 PM
  #36
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I think I dislike Messier at this point

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06-18-2013, 03:39 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Chariot View Post
Personally I would LOVE to see what a Mark Messier built team would look like. I know all great players don't make great execs, but then again, some do. If they get the opportunity and some guidance while they learn.
If you were the owner of a store, would you hire a guy who was an elite cashier to be your store manager if the guy had zero managerial experience?

Maybe since his captain cashier days he's done a bit of the interviewing for potential cashiers. But he doesn't have any experience with managing inventory, budgeting, displaying merchandise, etc. And he doesn't want to work his way up from shift manager or assistant manager to manager. He wants to go straight from being a retired cashier to the manager of the store.

How much slack would you cut this guy if he's only willing to "get the opportunity and some guidance" if he starts at the top?

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Old
06-18-2013, 05:46 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
This is exactly what irks me about him. Sather approaches him in 2002 about coaching. Said he wasn't interested. Not ready to retire. In 2013 he decides he wants to coach. But he doesn't get the head coaching job and immediately takes himself out of the running for assistant coach. C'mon. This behavior is entirely unbecoming.
You realize 11 years is a long time and things and people's perspectives can drastically change in that long a period of time, right? He was still in the NHL in 2002, did you want him to say "Sure Glen, I would love to retire immediately and coach the Rangers!" back then? Why is it somehow this awful thing that he's considering getting into coaching now, after having sat in with the organization across a handful of years and seeing the managerial side of a team?

Messier caught heat for wanting the head coach job. No one wanted him a part of the coaching staff at all at the NHL level, and now it's suddenly looked at as him throwing a tantrum because he took himself out of the equation. Maybe, just maybe, he figured "Why not, I'll put in my interest, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out and I'll just keep doing what I've been doing." No..everything must be analyzed, over-analyzed, then re-over-analyzed 20 more times before these boards figure out the true underlying motives behind everything said and done (funny thing is 99% of this has happened behind closed doors). Maybe he's been weighing his options between coaching at a lesser level to gain coaching experience or staying and gaining managerial experience with the Rangers. Guess how many of us know the real answer to that? I'd bet my life the answer is 0.

Honestly I couldn't care less if Messier gets the head coach job or even assistant coach job. If he can do the job, he can do the job. I don't care about the stigmas against ex-players "always" failing miserably at coaching or whatever. Didn't you guys see the "If you can play, you can play" ads?

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06-18-2013, 06:05 PM
  #39
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JD jumped from the booth directly to an executive position without "cutting his teeth", Glen Sather coached an excessively stacked oiler team and has been given everything since. This is how the NHL operates with big names. Gretzky wants to coach, sure no problem.....

You guys seem to forget that first and foremost this is a business about putting ***** in the seats. Big names do that and the NYR have a long history of doing just that.

Hell Sather has this job for that exact reason, it isn't his greatness at building winning teams. It the name he made for himself 30 years ago

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06-18-2013, 07:00 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
I think I dislike Messier at this point
If Patton were here he'd slap your face.

Messier would just laugh at you.

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06-18-2013, 07:24 PM
  #41
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I'm upset at Sather and Dolan for allowing Messier to get to this point with some of the fanbase. Its a little bit of everyone.

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06-18-2013, 09:24 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Greg02 View Post
Because if you want to coach, you take a coaching job. If you want to be a career executive, you don't go after coaching jobs. If you want to feed your ego, you go after the highest position available regardless.

EDIT: And I obviously don't know Messier on a personal level, but that's just how it comes across.

What an incredibly ignorant way to look at things. This isn't Eastside Hockey Manager. Taking a job has real-life implications that go beyond the scope of hockey. Maybe Messier's wife has a lot of close family in the NY area and doesn't want to leave them. There are million other things that taking a job in a different part of the country would affect that have nothing to do with the game of hockey. How is it any different from if Teemu Selanne or Daniel Alfredsson said they would either play for the Ducks/Senators or retire?

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06-18-2013, 09:48 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
What an incredibly ignorant way to look at things. This isn't Eastside Hockey Manager. Taking a job has real-life implications that go beyond the scope of hockey. Maybe Messier's wife has a lot of close family in the NY area and doesn't want to leave them. There are million other things that taking a job in a different part of the country would affect that have nothing to do with the game of hockey. How is it any different from if Teemu Selanne or Daniel Alfredsson said they would either play for the Ducks/Senators or retire?
There's Hartford, which is right by NY. There's the associate head coach position which people here have been saying he doesn't want.

The difference between Selanne/Alfredsson is they paid their dues. It's more akin to a draft pick saying they'll only play for certain teams with certain minutes. Not that that's a great comparison either, but it's closer.

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06-19-2013, 12:09 AM
  #44
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Messier = Tommy Callahan

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Old
06-19-2013, 12:53 AM
  #45
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Ok I laughed, but that's disrespectful. Tommy doesn't even play hockey.


Seriously, posters need to chill on the Messier sour grapes.

Messier might have thoughts on how to win the cup, as an exec

He might have different thoughts on how they might win, from a coaching standpoint.

I would sure be interested in what his thoughts are on both fronts. Out of respect. He doesn't have to coach the Blahville Ice Hornets to gain my respect.

His rings speak for themselves. He wasn't a role player, he was THE Man. I wonder how many people here are actually old enough to have watched this guy evolve from prospect to the Captain of multiple Stanley Cup Champions.

Maybe you all just caught the tail end of the career?

I'll say again, I know a great player doesn't make him an automatic great exec/coach. But it doesn't automatically make him a bad one either.

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06-19-2013, 01:04 AM
  #46
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You know, I think you're right. I have enough respect for Messier to want to hear his thoughts.

What I don't have, however, is enough trust in Messier to hand him the keys.

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06-19-2013, 01:21 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by I Am Chariot View Post
So why not give the guy some slack, give him a chance to have a career post player.

He didn't just lead NYR to their Cup. He has SIX
Pretty sure he is up their behind Gretzky in career pts.
Pretty sure he came into the league a promising prospect who GREW into a monster player.
Pretty sure he knows the game of Hockey like the back of his hand.

Not sure where the disrespect comes from. Because he left the team for more $$$ at the end of his career?

That's the business. These guys are DONE playing at 40. They need that last contract. So be it.

Personally I would LOVE to see what a Mark Messier built team would look like. I know all great players don't make great execs, but then again, some do. If they get the opportunity and some guidance while they learn.
I respect what your saying here. It's just that you don't hear about Messier working with any youngsters in the system. Bringing young guys along. You don't hear about him at some rink in junior evaluating a prospect or potential pick. I could be very wrong here. I've just never heard anything like that. You don't want to get this impression, but Mess seems a bit above it all. For a guy who aspires to running the whole show, some of us would respect a little more shoe leather equity.

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06-19-2013, 02:17 AM
  #48
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other than speculation and the fact that he wanted to be head coach and not assistant coach, is there any proof (or even well reasoned speculation) that Messier just sits around all day and doesn't value-add anything to the organisation?

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06-19-2013, 03:01 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Chariot View Post
Ok I laughed, but that's disrespectful. Tommy doesn't even play hockey.


Seriously, posters need to chill on the Messier sour grapes.

Messier might have thoughts on how to win the cup, as an exec

He might have different thoughts on how they might win, from a coaching standpoint.

I would sure be interested in what his thoughts are on both fronts. Out of respect. He doesn't have to coach the Blahville Ice Hornets to gain my respect.

His rings speak for themselves. He wasn't a role player, he was THE Man. I wonder how many people here are actually old enough to have watched this guy evolve from prospect to the Captain of multiple Stanley Cup Champions.

Maybe you all just caught the tail end of the career?

I'll say again, I know a great player doesn't make him an automatic great exec/coach. But it doesn't automatically make him a bad one either.
I feel like he probably has ideas and given his reputation those ideas are listened to, that's about the extent of what I want him doing. That is unless he actually goes out and get's the experience. If he is going to be such a fantastic coach (theoretically) then go coach a season in the NHL, especially in Hartford and if he has great success with that team then by all means maybe he could be a serious candidate in the future.

I'm not saying he needs to coach through every level, or have 10 years experience, but at this point with the team we have we needed to go with the safe choice and we did. AV is a good coach and he has proven that. Messier MAY be a good coach but we don't know that yet.

I know about Messier, heck I got an awesome DVD about him for Christmas a few years ago that I watch fairly often, and get goosebumps at times reminiscing about his career, but that doesn't mean anything when it comes down to him coaching this team with little coaching experience. If we were in year one of a full fledged rebuild and he was going to be allowed to grow on the job then I'd be all for it.

You guys who advocate him for the coaching job seem to assume he'd have success. What if he didn't? What if we finished 10th or 11th in the east?

Could it happen with AV? Possibly, although I don't think it will.

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06-19-2013, 05:41 AM
  #50
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He applied for the Coach job. The Ranger management knows him better than anyone. He didn't get the job. There are 29 other teams and some of them really bad. Any of them knocking down doors to hire him as the MAN? Seems to me, there is a reason.

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