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Old
06-17-2013, 04:13 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
13 Days..
Really can't wait. I think there is also going to be a lot of movement in the league as well on Draft day

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06-17-2013, 04:14 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Hmmm,

PK. Subban was ranked like 102 the yr he was drafted.
So lets use the logic of Habs should have waited,they wasted the 43 pick on a guy ranked 102, just think they could have got PK much later?Just think of all the player we could picked at 43 that was better than Subban...

It's not goona happen,Jordan ranked 55 will be long gone before 55,bank on that.The Subban name =cat is out of the bag,on teams radars.
How many undersized D are in the league? How many do you wish you had on the Habs?

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06-17-2013, 04:15 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Hmmm,

PK. Subban was ranked like 102 the yr he was drafted.
So lets use the logic of Habs should have waited,they wasted the 43 pick on a guy ranked 102, just think they could have got PK much later?Just think of all the player we could picked at 43 that was better than Subban...

It's not goona happen,Jordan ranked 55 will be long gone before 55,bank on that.The Subban name =cat is out of the bag,on teams radars.
Well for what it's worth, you don't know that the Habs couldn't have gotten P.K. later...

As you said - the cat is out of the bag. The Subban name is not a mystery anymore. And despite all that, Jordan is still ranked as a low second/high third.

I think the bigger mistake is to draft Jordan high and expect to get P.K. Part 2.

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Old
06-17-2013, 04:21 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Well for what it's worth, you don't know that the Habs couldn't have gotten P.K. later...

As you said - the cat is out of the bag. The Subban name is not a mystery anymore. And despite all that, Jordan is still ranked as a low second/high third.

I think the bigger mistake is to draft Jordan high and expect to get P.K. Part 2.
Will never know,and there was people mad about wasting 43 on Subban at the time(where they go?)
,
Jordan according to Pk himself (who knows talent)will be better than him,now that is hard to imagine,but that just isnt a bro pumpin his little bros tires.....

5'10 220 lbs offensive d name Jordan Subban, is not a problem 3-4 yrs from now.

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06-17-2013, 04:27 PM
  #55
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If Erne is still available at 25, which I don't think will be the case, do we pick him?

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06-17-2013, 04:38 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Will never know,and there was people mad about wasting 43 on Subban at the time(where they go?)
,
Jordan according to Pk himself (who knows talent)will be better than him,now that is hard to imagine,but that just isnt a bro pumpin his little bros tires.....

5'10 220 lbs offensive d name Jordan Subban, is not a problem 3-4 yrs from now.
That's exactly what it is...again, come on. Or is P.K. scouting for us in the off-season now?

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Originally Posted by AllanMTL46 View Post
If Erne is still available at 25, which I don't think will be the case, do we pick him?
I would like to see the Habs pick him, he's an intriguing player for sure. But he doesn't jump out at me as a "Timmins type" of player, so I'd be surprised if we did.

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06-17-2013, 04:48 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Jordan according to Pk himself (who knows talent)will be better than him,now that is hard to imagine,but that just isnt a bro pumpin his little bros tires......
...and Mario Lemieux once stated that he thought he older brother (Alain) was a better hockey player than him.

...and of course there was that whole Keith Gretzky might be better than Wayne.

...and the Islanders who thought they got the better Lindros when they nabbed Brett.

...and Henry Staal stated that he thought that Jarod might be the best of the 4 Staal brothers.

Never take scouting reports on players from their family members.

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06-17-2013, 04:51 PM
  #58
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...and Henry Staal stated that he thought that Jarod might be the best of the 4 Staal brothers.
Actually he was apparently misquoted and was talking about Jordan...but even still, the point stands.

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06-17-2013, 05:14 PM
  #59
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Jordan is 55th in NA skaters.
Hagg is 8th in European skaters. Just add two goalies (among Fucale, Comrie, Jarry or Saros) and JS global ranking is lower.
He is certainly 65 or even more.

We have plenty of d-men in the pipeline and we have needs in forwards with size.

If he is available at 71st, then let's pick him.
Taking him in second round seems very fast.

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06-17-2013, 05:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Darz View Post
...and Mario Lemieux once stated that he thought he older brother (Alain) was a better hockey player than him.

...and of course there was that whole Keith Gretzky might be better than Wayne.

...and the Islanders who thought they got the better Lindros when they nabbed Brett.

...and Henry Staal stated that he thought that Jarod might be the best of the 4 Staal brothers.

Never take scouting reports on players from their family members.

There was people saying how PK defensive game was awful...then he wins Norris in first 3 seasons....

16 defensemen were taken before Subban,name me one better from that 2007 draft year?

The Subbans have something most don't, they all want to be the best....not just another nhl player,that is what drives them all.

The fact Jordan in a strong draft year is ranked at 55 vs his brother in 2007 at 102 says what?

Jordan Subban time will show ,be it in a Habs jersey or elsewhere,will be better pick than a lot of Habs first or 2nd rounders in past 2O years...Imho

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06-17-2013, 08:03 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
thing is, the article doesn't really go into much depth or detail about what the team will try to do at the draft...

writing about the results of an office mock draft doesn't really = "Draft preview", with or without a post-season recap.

Take a look around this board, and you'll find quite a few draft preview type posts by guys who have done an much better job at speculating what the habs might do during the draft...



FYI, his post was hardly a "knock", it was a very simple statement (accurate at that), followed by a pretty fair question.

instead of reacting defensively to it, and passive aggressively taking issue with his post (a disingenuous smiley doesn't change the content of a post), you'd be much better served taking his, & others, constructive criticism to heart and use it to improve further offerings.

this board is probably one of the best places to find constructive criticism for someone with a passion for sports writing... and while there are a lot of juvenile posts/posters to weed through, it wouldn't take much looking around to figure out that commentary from a poster like overlords is exactly the kind of feedback you should be looking for.

it's not like he was nit-picking you for silly statements like:
"The Canadiens will need continued growth from P.K. Subban"

--> while it's true that all teams would want continued growth from all of their players, unless the aim was to make redundant redundant commentary, it's pretty silly to argue the habs "need" growth from their norris winning dman. If Subban's game plateaued where it was this season, the habs or any other team in the league would be thrilled to have him just at the level he is. In their pantheon of needs, Subban improving has got to be near the bottom of the pile.

"Character, toughness, work ethic, and potential offensive talent will be important attributes that the Canadiens will be looking for when selecting this year's draft prospects."

--> might have saved you some word space by simply writing "Good hockey players are what the Canadiens will be..." Stating the obvious doesn't really make for a great way of closing an article...


he didn't go anywhere near those or the other "low hanging fruit" to knock the article, you're reaction to his minor commentary was way over the top, and just brought greater scrutiny for a piece that was probably better served quietly fading into the back pages.
My new hero.......

Great post!

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06-17-2013, 08:11 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Jordan is 55th in NA skaters.
Hagg is 8th in European skaters. Just add two goalies (among Fucale, Comrie, Jarry or Saros) and JS global ranking is lower.
He is certainly 65 or even more.

We have plenty of d-men in the pipeline and we have needs in forwards with size.

If he is available at 71st, then let's pick him.
Taking him in second round seems very fast.
We don't need any more small puck moving D in the system.

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Old
06-17-2013, 08:12 PM
  #63
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I'd take J. Subban at 55 if he's there. The guy is small, but built like a tank. He's all work ethic and very humble.
Too bad he's so small.

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06-17-2013, 08:13 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
The fact Jordan in a strong draft year is ranked at 55 vs his brother in 2007 at 102 says what?
It says absolutely nothing......zero!

Every year players are picked far below/above their consensus ranking with very polarized results.

P.K. was a better prospect at the same age as Jordan but he simply wasn't recognized for it by the majority of scouts. Who cares where he was ranked by the ISS or whoever, when one of the top talent hawks in the game took him long before he was expected to go. Timmins imo took P.K. at a spot where he won't draft Jordan given the same opportunity.

Jordan is very small and doesn't have the same frame as his brother to add bulk to. You also can't put any stock into P.K. pumping his brothers tires as it has happened many times over the years from the Staals to the Sutters to the Hulls etc.

I will be very disappointed to see him picked by Timmins before the 3rd round.

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06-17-2013, 09:05 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by David Thicke View Post
If you don't like the article's format take it up with the Managing editor Ken not here. You are a moderator for HF's forums.

Second, you might want to try reading it again and maybe you will understand it better now. I only have so much space not pages and I can't give my full opinion. Seriously, who has a crystal ball to pick exactly which player will go at what number for the 2013 NHL draft. Nobody knows which players will fall or rise. If you do then go work for Bergevin because he's going to need your help.

My pick of Samuel Morin was in the "HF Staff Mock draft" like it states in the article. I can't trade up and have to wait my turn then choose who I think the Canadiens will target given what players are still available. I was lucky enough to find Morin available so I thought it was a no brainer to take him. I believe that if he's there on draft day and he could be, who knows, then the Habs will select him because I am sure the teams after them definitely will. He's not falling out of the 1st round.

Thanks for at least reading the article and making comments. It is appreciated but knock an article without knowing all the facts. Thanks!
Morin should be gone by then

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06-17-2013, 10:39 PM
  #66
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I'd reach for J. Subban with one of the early 2nd rounder without an hesitation.

I believe in heritage in hockey.

Jordan might not be that enticing for most teams (althougth Boston would be just so happy to pissed us all by taking him), but with his brother on board, Jordan will ends up over 200 pounds imo. PK cant be pushed by anyone in the league and at that weight, Jordan wont be a weak link physically imo.

He's going to make it as a top4 defenseman. Trade down a bit to the 40-45th and get another pick if you want, but get him. And that's risky imo.

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Old
06-18-2013, 12:12 AM
  #67
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****, do you guys watch more CHL games than the NHL? You know a lot about prospects. Wish I had more free time to know them a little bit more...

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Old
06-18-2013, 07:00 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Thicke View Post
If you don't like the article's format take it up with the Managing editor Ken not here. You are a moderator for HF's forums.

Second, you might want to try reading it again and maybe you will understand it better now. I only have so much space not pages and I can't give my full opinion. Seriously, who has a crystal ball to pick exactly which player will go at what number for the 2013 NHL draft. Nobody knows which players will fall or rise. If you do then go work for Bergevin because he's going to need your help.

My pick of Samuel Morin was in the "HF Staff Mock draft" like it states in the article. I can't trade up and have to wait my turn then choose who I think the Canadiens will target given what players are still available. I was lucky enough to find Morin available so I thought it was a no brainer to take him. I believe that if he's there on draft day and he could be, who knows, then the Habs will select him because I am sure the teams after them definitely will. He's not falling out of the 1st round.

Thanks for at least reading the article and making comments. It is appreciated but knock an article without knowing all the facts. Thanks!
Someone can't take a little criticism. He is right, for an article that is suppose to be a draft preview, it has very little in it about the draft as a whole. It reads much more like a recap of the past season and what not.

This being said, the addition of another talented large blue liner is not a terrible idea but it needs to be someone that can skate. According to your own(?) analysis Morin does have some skating issues which always worry me.

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06-18-2013, 12:40 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by TT1 View Post
if we manage to get ristolainen at 25... O_O, cant see that happening tho
Me neither, but if he was there I cant imagine who else would be there that I would take over him. Big two-way D-man who should put up offense and be rugged and physical, minute eater kind of guy. No question I take him at 25 and if he was around at 20 or so I would try to make a play for that pick.

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Old
06-18-2013, 01:06 PM
  #70
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Hockey news draft preview as Jordan Subban at no 67... no way in hell.. i would say he is gone around 45 worst case scenario who wouldnt like a bryan rafalski? We all know subbans are tough and durable.... but for whatever reason if he is available in round 3 you take him and run cause its a robbery.

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06-18-2013, 01:13 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Montreal Impact FC View Post
Hockey news draft preview as Jordan Subban at no 67... no way in hell.. i would say he is gone around 45 worst case scenario who wouldnt like a bryan rafalski? We all know subbans are tough and durable.... but for whatever reason if he is available in round 3 you take him and run cause its a robbery.
I made an average ranking with Red Line, Future consideration, THN and McKeen's, and he's outside the top two rounds. Not saying he will on draft day, but it seems to be the consensus.

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06-18-2013, 01:29 PM
  #72
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I made an average ranking with Red Line, Future consideration, THN and McKeen's, and he's outside the top two rounds. Not saying he will on draft day, but it seems to be the consensus.
Maybe so but once the draft will start he will go higher than the scouts think cause gm's are little bit nervous guys.. and will fold under his last name. Its a lot easier to justifiy a bust with subban as a name than say.. Busto lol

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06-18-2013, 02:03 PM
  #73
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Someone can't take a little criticism. He is right, for an article that is suppose to be a draft preview, it has very little in it about the draft as a whole. It reads much more like a recap of the past season and what not.

This being said, the addition of another talented large blue liner is not a terrible idea but it needs to be someone that can skate. According to your own(?) analysis Morin does have some skating issues which always worry me.
I said If he doesn't like the format complain to the managing Editor, it's been the same format for the last three years. I don't control that and I have to write only within those perimeters. A moderator that has been around should know better. Take it up with Management. Just take a look at what I wrote about Pacioretty, Moen and Desharais. I can't explain in the article what I wrote in this thread about Pacioretty because it will get cut out and the article will be to pages if I have to go into all the detail I want. I can't fully explain what I mean about Subban in one sentence but I have to try.

The issues I am pointing out with Morin are all common for tall players. For his height, he's a really good skater and he will correct those issues that I mentioned quite easily with the proper skating help. He's a raw talent having only played two years in the QJMHL and could be a monster with more size added to his frame. He has a lot of upside to his overall game and has the sandpiper to his game that the Canadiens need on their soft backend.

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06-18-2013, 03:13 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
thing is, the article doesn't really go into much depth or detail about what the team will try to do at the draft...

writing about the results of an office mock draft doesn't really = "Draft preview", with or without a post-season recap.

Take a look around this board, and you'll find quite a few draft preview type posts by guys who have done an much better job at speculating what the habs might do during the draft...



FYI, his post was hardly a "knock", it was a very simple statement (accurate at that), followed by a pretty fair question.

instead of reacting defensively to it, and passive aggressively taking issue with his post (a disingenuous smiley doesn't change the content of a post), you'd be much better served taking his, & others, constructive criticism to heart and use it to improve further offerings.

this board is probably one of the best places to find constructive criticism for someone with a passion for sports writing... and while there are a lot of juvenile posts/posters to weed through, it wouldn't take much looking around to figure out that commentary from a poster like overlords is exactly the kind of feedback you should be looking for.

it's not like he was nit-picking you for silly statements like:
"The Canadiens will need continued growth from P.K. Subban"

--> while it's true that all teams would want continued growth from all of their players, unless the aim was to make redundant redundant commentary, it's pretty silly to argue the habs "need" growth from their norris winning dman. If Subban's game plateaued where it was this season, the habs or any other team in the league would be thrilled to have him just at the level he is. In their pantheon of needs, Subban improving has got to be near the bottom of the pile.

"."

--> might have saved you some word space by simply writing "Good hockey players are what the Canadiens will be..." Stating the obvious doesn't really make for a great way of closing an article...


he didn't go anywhere near those or the other "low hanging fruit" to knock the article, you're reaction to his minor commentary was way over the top, and just brought greater scrutiny for a piece that was probably better served quietly fading into the back pages.
I have answer already about the article format so I won't address it any more.

Here's what I want to say but can't about Subban. He still makes a lot of mistakes with the puck both defensively and offensively when trying to do too much. He loses his man around the net way too often, still takes himself out of the position going for the big hit and does a poor job boxing out in front of the net. There are a lot of mistakes in his game which still need correction in order to be a number one defenseman in the NHL. I don't think Subban should have been the Norris Trophy winner, I think Ryan Suter is the better defenseman but I also don't agree with Karlsson being the winner last year either. To me, the Norris trophy is for the best defenseman, not the best defenseman with the most offensive points. The winner should be the best two-way defenseman with all facets of the game being considered. When I wrote the article, my worry was Subban's play would regress if he won the Norris trophy. We all know his head is a little too big and he might go back to trying to make the spectacular plays for the roar of the crowd. For Subban to have continued success, he has to continue to simplify his overall game and keep the "I" attitude in the past. The Canadiens will need him to be way better in both ends of the rink if they are even going to make the playoffs this coming season. The same goes for players like Diaz and Emelin among others, they both have to continue to play better this coming season while Bergevin continues his plan to rebuild the Canadiens into a balance mix of character, toughness, grit, high end skill and scoring talent. They need far more depth at all positions in order to compete with the like of Boston, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Ottawa even Washington, in the eastern Conference.

Character, toughness, work ethic, and potential offensive talent will be important attributes that the Canadiens will be looking for when selecting this year's draft prospects

What I was trying to say was that the Canadiens would be looking more at these types of player than the high end skill players that don't have grit in their games. If there's a choice between two players, the Canadiens will be leaning more towards these types of players. These are the type of players missing in the Canadiens' prospect system and their NHL line-up. We have enough two-way players and speedy scorers but so little in the way of big bodied, tough, physical that love to attack the net a la Gallagher. I don't have the space necessary to write this so I have to put it in one sentence. The editor will just cut it out and he has the right to change what I put in the article. Even the other player considered isn't exactly what I put down.

I hope explains it all better for you.

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06-18-2013, 04:36 PM
  #75
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Fucale ! we need a goalie!
Fucale is the next coming of marc andre fleury do not want.

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