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Flyers sign Mark Streit to a multi-year deal [4 yrs, $21m; $5.25 AAV] (post #1)

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:13 PM
  #826
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
I still say the Flyers should keep Mez for one of the several injuries they will incur over the season. Surely, Mez will be one of them, but others will get injured as well. Having Mez around will be very helpful. I remember a few years ago when the Flyers had a glut of defensemen and traded (I believe) Weinrich to the Blues and then were hurt with a rash of injuries to the defense. Mez is good to have around because he brings depth.
He costs too much to simply be depth though. That's 4 mil that could be used differently.

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06-18-2013, 02:17 PM
  #827
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Originally Posted by Haanz View Post
He was clearly counted on as one of their top defensemen all season long until the playoffs came along. Him being the only defenseman on their roster whose ATOI decreased in the playoffs is definitely cause for concern.
His time on ice stats during the regular season are probably slightly skewed because of the amount of time he spent on the PP. The team didn't get a lot of chances in the playoffs.

He's not great defensively, but he can be effective jumping up on the play and running the PP.

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06-18-2013, 02:20 PM
  #828
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
He costs too much to simply be depth though. That's 4 mil that could be used differently.
But you can't replace his ability for 4 million. It seems like the only kind of depth you can get for less than 4 million are people like Gervais. I don't want to depend on Gervais to be the replacement.

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06-18-2013, 02:24 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
But you can't replace his ability for 4 million. It seems like the only kind of depth you can get for less than 4 million are people like Gervais. I don't want to depend on Gervais to be the replacement.
That's true, but our D is so damn expensive. That's why it's important to have prospects that are ready to step in and play a role, like Gus. They're cheaper, and possibly better than the vet alternative.

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06-18-2013, 02:33 PM
  #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I was never strongly against Couts for Yandle straight up, but admittedly I went back and forth on it. Signing Streit (even to this contract) is a much, much better scenario.

Seriously, consider our options:

1) Do nothing. Wait for Gostisbehere and Risto/Morrissey/Morin/etc. to develop. Waste away the next couple seasons while we wait for this.

2) Fix the D problem for the long term through trade (ie, Yandle). This would cost Couturier or Schenn at the minimum.

3) Fix the D problem for the short term through trade. This would cost Read or Laughton at the minimum.

4) Fix the D problem for the short term through UFA. This costs nothing but cap space which we have.


Which one of those looks to be the best? Yeah, it's not exactly close.
Do not think Streit fixes this defense, he only covers the loss of Mezzaros/Carle only.
We need to look toward the defensive needs in 2014 as well.
Option 2) or Option 3) need to be explored to fix this defense.
When Timmo retires after year we have another hole to fill.
It would be better to face that issue now then, backfill with another
overpriced 35+ year old defenseman again.
This defense is not one player from being fixed, IMHO.


Last edited by DecadesofFutility: 06-18-2013 at 02:39 PM.
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06-18-2013, 02:48 PM
  #831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Do not think Streit fixes this defense, he only covers the loss of Mezzaros/Carle only.
We need to look toward the defensive needs in 2014 as well.
Option 2) or Option 3) need to be explored to fix this defense.
When Timmo retires after year we have another hole to fill.
It would be better to face that issue now then, backfill with another
overpriced 35+ year old defenseman again.

This defense is not one player from being fixed, IMHO.
Gotta remember. From the point of view of Homer, Snider, the team and its investors, he looks at it that the team needed some help on defense. Other than people reading just what Islander fans are saying, Streit really isnt a bad defender? Long and high contract? Yes. But he will help out this team NOW which is what management ALWAYS wants. It's easy for people to complain we dont look to the future but from a financial standpoint, the future is always now for the Flyers. Love it or hate it, its how the Flyers work and always will.

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:50 PM
  #832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Do not think Streit fixes this defense, he only covers the loss of Mezzaros/Carle only.
He more than covers that loss. He's a big improvement on both.


Quote:
We need to look toward the defensive needs in 2014 as well.
Option 2) or Option 3) need to be explored to fix this defense.
Option 2 requires a structural change. We're better off using our 11th overall pick and praying for a savior than we are trading Couturier or Schenn for our savior then praying that Laughton can fill the void.

You're only shifting your prayers. We might as well hang onto what we have.

Option 3 is stupid considering we just acquired our veteran solution (Streit) for no assets.

Quote:
When Timmo retires after year we have another hole to fill.
It would be better to face that issue now then, backfill with another
overpriced 35+ year old defenseman again.
This defense is not one player from being fixed, IMHO.
You're right, we have more issues, but there is no denying our defense is better today then it was yesterday. Now we just select a blue chip prospect at #11 and give him some time to develop. Hopefully when Timonen retires, we will have a clearer picture of our long term defensive core.

Streit is a band-aid, no denying that, but he's an effective one. He'll give us a big contribution for one or two years, and we can re-assess our situation when Timonen is gone and Streit's play begins to fall off. We just bought a bit of time with this move in order for us to be competitive in the present while waiting to legitimately contend in the future. I don't have a problem with that logic even though I don't like the contract itself...

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:52 PM
  #833
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I mean how can anybody be surprised though about Holmgren giving Streit 4 years when he gave Lilja of all people 2 years for no effin apparent reason...or at least no good reason. Shelley obviously is another one...

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06-18-2013, 03:04 PM
  #834
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Ive been a big time supporter of Homer for a while. I thought the carter and richards deals were incredible and really revitilized the team. I didnt like bryz signing, or the bob trade and now this streit deal? If streit looks bad homer might be done.

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Old
06-18-2013, 03:14 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Ive been a big time supporter of Homer for a while. I thought the carter and richards deals were incredible and really revitilized the team. I didnt like bryz signing, or the bob trade and now this streit deal? If streit looks bad homer might be done.
I completely agree with this. If Streit is ineffective next season and the year after, I think that will be it for Holmgren.

The Briere deal was always easy to swallow even if frustrating at times because of his post season performances and his run in 2010. Timonen was an excellent investment. But throwing money at Streit could be a fatal move for Holmgren if he doesn't pan out.

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06-18-2013, 03:25 PM
  #836
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Missing the playoffs again this season will also cost him his job.

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06-18-2013, 03:33 PM
  #837
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Originally Posted by Haanz View Post
Not sure if it's been brought up, but Streit was 2nd amongst Islanders defensemen in ATOI during the regular season this year and dropped to 5th in the playoffs, playing over three less minutes per game. Not the most encouraging statistic, especially considering his age.
According to Isles fans, he was playing through a leg injury. Hopefully, that'll heal over the offseason and he'll be back to his normal self.

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Old
06-18-2013, 04:04 PM
  #838
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The cap will rise and the hit will be no biggie, May get a little scary in year 4. Nobody needs to go bridge jumping.

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Old
06-18-2013, 04:19 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
According to Isles fans, he was playing through a leg injury. Hopefully, that'll heal over the offseason and he'll be back to his normal self.
Meszaros should give Streit his good leg.

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06-18-2013, 04:23 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Meszaros should give Streit his good leg.
Mez might as well just give Pronger his brain.

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06-18-2013, 04:23 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
But you can't replace his ability for 4 million. It seems like the only kind of depth you can get for less than 4 million are people like Gervais. I don't want to depend on Gervais to be the replacement.
Having Gervais as depth is fodder for another thread. For the cash, I'd rather have a solid, dependable guy like Huskins. The Flyers – and their cap situation – don't have the luxury for Meszaros and his skill set to represent defensive depth. That's part of the overall frustration with how Holmgren has been so generous with salaries. Plus, Meszaros leads the pack of injuries in waiting, so it's illogical to look to him as depth for anything other than the IR list.

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06-18-2013, 04:59 PM
  #842
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Streit's pretty good on offense. We only really had Timonen as an offensive defender this year, and Laviolette plays a style where he wants to puck in the offensive zone always, always creating chances. Streit will improve our offense which if we spend more time in the offensive zone, less pressure on defense.

I thought our defensive play wasn't awful last year. Lots of blocked shots, great PK and I thought they really limited the number of shots allowed this past season compared to how often they were under duress. I thought goaltending was the big issue, and it wasn't really unwarranted hate.

12th in least shots allowed
15th in shots for
9th in goals for
8th most goals against.
6th worst team save percentage, under 900%.
3rd worst save percentage 5v5, 903%

16th best 5v5 shooting percentage
-7 difference in goals for vs. against overall ... pretty brutal for a top-10 offensive team
-18 difference in goals for vs. against 5v5 ...

+11 difference in special teams goals for vs. against ...
1st in minor penalties
1st in penalties per game
1st in times shorthanded

5th best PK
3rd best PP
3rd WORST 5v5 goals for vs. against ratio ... 3rd worst team in the league 5v5, basically
5th most hits
3rd most blocked shots
15th most giveaways (not bad)
3rd least takeaways
8th worst faceoff percentage


Bolded are the obvious negatives only. So clearly, special teams is not an issue. The amount of penalties we take was, but a lot of the time the penalties were killed. That was pretty lucky, so discipline is something I hope the team improves with and that's really just immaturity and frustration. We're young and hate to lose and the whole lineup basically plays the type of game where they might get penalties. Definitely an area of improvement.

It would seem like we have a hard time getting the puck, as horrible takeaway numbers and awful faceoff percentage would indicate. It's amazing that they weren't ridiculously outshot, although I guess blocked shots would play into that. Still, they did a good job at limiting the shots even though they weren't on the attack. Goaltending didn't help them out, but possession numbers need improvement which I am hoping some faceoff improvement and a better breakout might help.

The biggest issue is 5v5 play, although they didn't have a chronic issue of not being able to score 5v5. The goaltending was clearly terrible. 3rd worst 5v5 and 6th worst overall?! You've gotta be kidding me. If they even just get top-15 goaltending they'd likely be a playoff team.

Will Streit help fix any of these issues? I think so. I think Streit will be a huge asset in 5v5 play, as he is a reliable puck mover and is much better offensively than Matt Carle, although much older. Carle is a great passer but had no shot, while Streit brings similar yet possibly better passing ability but also brings a shot from the point. The team really had issues with breaking out and moving the puck up ice. A lot of the time it was just dump and chase hockey and since we don't necessarily have the fastest forwards in the league or the most physical, we often lost a lot of puck retrieval battles. Having somebody who has a good 1st pass and smart offensive instincts will be very handy, IMO.

I think everyone needs to relax and actually look at the areas the team struggled at and how those areas can be improved. So far, Streit is just filling a hole without creating another one in the lineup and I like that. Cap is an issue but the loss of Bryz and Briere are more addition by subtraction.


Last edited by ahthorne: 06-18-2013 at 05:04 PM.
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Old
06-18-2013, 05:04 PM
  #843
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And for not doing anything about it after the fact, except, of course, acquiring Grossmann and Schenn and offering Suter more $ than he signed for in Minny, and giving the offer sheet to Weber.
Yep! Pretty much nothing. Clearly.

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06-18-2013, 05:35 PM
  #844
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One problem this team has that affected the even strength goals, in addition to a lack of Offensive D men, was faceoffs... only Giroux (and later Hall) could actually take faceoffs on the whole team... G took almost half the team Facoffs last year, and was taking facoffs for other lines at some points then coming off straight away.

Our team was so skewed in facoffs G took 119 more than anyone else in the NHL.

Only 3 of the worst 10 faceoff teams made the playoffs last year... only Ottawa made it past the first round, and they were the tenth worst, almost at 50%. Offensive zone time due to higher faceoff % make even strength chances and therefore more goals.

While some good/decent teams were below us in this regard (Anaheim, Vancouver) non of them were so badly skewed to one player, in turn meaning when anyone but the first line is out on the ice we generally have a high proportion of own zone time and starts.

Couturier and Schenn will both be 50% or above when matured on the dot; looking at natural progression of other NHL centres, but statistically that will be 2 years away.

I would love Boyd Gordon to address this, not only one of the most underrated defensive centres in the nhl, a great Pker, but also insanely good on the dot... ie top 10 in the NHL. He took almost 800 this year at 57.3%. Would only cost 1.5 mill, and be worth far more to the team.

If we had even one more +54% faceoff man to compliment and reduce Giroux's workload our even strength play, as well as other aspects of the game would improve enormously... I imagine Girouxs faceoff % would increase as well with a slightly reduced load, and not having to shuffle him in and out on other lines balance the team and enable the team to set up quicker in the Offensive zone when we win one and he has to go straight to the bench. Gordon could also reduce G's Pk mins.

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06-18-2013, 05:56 PM
  #845
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And for not doing anything about it after the fact, except, of course, acquiring Grossmann and Schenn and offering Suter more $ than he signed for in Minny, and giving the offer sheet to Weber.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Yep! Pretty much nothing. Clearly.
Grossman and Schenn were good additions but, neither have offensive capability.
We needed a defenseman able to move puck out of our defensive zone.

I didn't really think he was going to be able to sign Suter or Weber.
Suter wanted to play with Parise, and Nashville was not going to lose both Suter and Weber.

It was just a typical Flyers move, we will just outbid all on FA or RFA, that we want.
Shows lack of patience and skill in developing defensemen.

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06-18-2013, 06:09 PM
  #846
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Mez might as well just give Pronger his brain.
I had that very thought typed in, but thought Pronger's body without Pronger's hockey smarts isn't worth it.

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06-18-2013, 07:20 PM
  #847
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I had that very thought typed in, but thought Pronger's body without Pronger's hockey smarts isn't worth it.
You mean Coburn

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06-18-2013, 09:20 PM
  #848
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Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
Streit's pretty good on offense. We only really had Timonen as an offensive defender this year, and Laviolette plays a style where he wants to puck in the offensive zone always, always creating chances. Streit will improve our offense which if we spend more time in the offensive zone, less pressure on defense.

I thought our defensive play wasn't awful last year. Lots of blocked shots, great PK and I thought they really limited the number of shots allowed this past season compared to how often they were under duress. I thought goaltending was the big issue, and it wasn't really unwarranted hate.

12th in least shots allowed
15th in shots for
9th in goals for
8th most goals against.
6th worst team save percentage, under 900%.
3rd worst save percentage 5v5, 903%

16th best 5v5 shooting percentage
-7 difference in goals for vs. against overall ... pretty brutal for a top-10 offensive team
-18 difference in goals for vs. against 5v5 ...

+11 difference in special teams goals for vs. against ...
1st in minor penalties
1st in penalties per game
1st in times shorthanded

5th best PK
3rd best PP
3rd WORST 5v5 goals for vs. against ratio ... 3rd worst team in the league 5v5, basically
5th most hits
3rd most blocked shots
15th most giveaways (not bad)
3rd least takeaways
8th worst faceoff percentage


Bolded are the obvious negatives only. So clearly, special teams is not an issue. The amount of penalties we take was, but a lot of the time the penalties were killed. That was pretty lucky, so discipline is something I hope the team improves with and that's really just immaturity and frustration. We're young and hate to lose and the whole lineup basically plays the type of game where they might get penalties. Definitely an area of improvement.

It would seem like we have a hard time getting the puck, as horrible takeaway numbers and awful faceoff percentage would indicate. It's amazing that they weren't ridiculously outshot, although I guess blocked shots would play into that. Still, they did a good job at limiting the shots even though they weren't on the attack. Goaltending didn't help them out, but possession numbers need improvement which I am hoping some faceoff improvement and a better breakout might help.

The biggest issue is 5v5 play, although they didn't have a chronic issue of not being able to score 5v5. The goaltending was clearly terrible. 3rd worst 5v5 and 6th worst overall?! You've gotta be kidding me. If they even just get top-15 goaltending they'd likely be a playoff team.

Will Streit help fix any of these issues? I think so. I think Streit will be a huge asset in 5v5 play, as he is a reliable puck mover and is much better offensively than Matt Carle, although much older. Carle is a great passer but had no shot, while Streit brings similar yet possibly better passing ability but also brings a shot from the point. The team really had issues with breaking out and moving the puck up ice. A lot of the time it was just dump and chase hockey and since we don't necessarily have the fastest forwards in the league or the most physical, we often lost a lot of puck retrieval battles. Having somebody who has a good 1st pass and smart offensive instincts will be very handy, IMO.

I think everyone needs to relax and actually look at the areas the team struggled at and how those areas can be improved. So far, Streit is just filling a hole without creating another one in the lineup and I like that. Cap is an issue but the loss of Bryz and Briere are more addition by subtraction.
Great presentation of stats. Ridiculous analysis of Streit. His value lies in the PP. He is now a 3rd pair D Man at even strength. For goodness sakes - look at his plus/minus!!

He has lost a a step, has virtually no front of net presence and was never physical. This contract is going to a disaster as early as the second part of next yr

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06-18-2013, 09:33 PM
  #849
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Great presentation of stats. Ridiculous analysis of Streit. His value lies in the PP. He is now a 3rd pair D Man at even strength. For goodness sakes - look at his plus/minus!!

He has lost a a step, has virtually no front of net presence and was never physical. This contract is going to a disaster as early as the second part of next yr
Come on man. You can't win an arguement when you are using one of the most flawed stats in the NHL. Compared to advanced stats though your wrong. He faced good competition last season and came out average. Not poorly like your saying.

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06-18-2013, 09:38 PM
  #850
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Come on man. You can't win an arguement when you are using one of the most flawed stats in the NHL. Compared to advanced stats though your wrong. He faced good competition last season and came out average. Not poorly like your saying.
Was just gonna say this. No one is claiming he's a good defender but that's not his role, he's a point producer and he'll do that just fine. I'd be shocked if he didn't have at least two good years on the Flyers. He put up lots of points on some really bad Islanders teams, on the Flyers with Lavi's style and the teams load of pp opportunities he should be 40+ point guy even if he's slowing down.

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