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Old
06-13-2013, 03:15 AM
  #26
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Not a fan of Erne at 15(I prefer any of the 3 guys picked right after him)

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06-13-2013, 12:33 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by MrData View Post
Most are drawn from Top Shelf Prospects. I'm figuring out my own and beginning to use those instead of the TSP comparisons, as I agree that they are a little wacky. The thing with the TSP comparisons is that they are stylistic only and don't represent skill level or ceiling.

I came up with a better one for Jones: Brian Campbell.
Fair enough. From my (limited) exposure to the top-3, I see MacKinnon as Hall with a bit higher ceiling, Jones as Pietrangelo and Drouin as a Patrick Kane-lite.

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06-13-2013, 06:35 PM
  #28
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I really doubt the Sharks take a D at #20 when their biggest need is for high end forward prospects. They have several good to very good D in the system already, plus potentially Burns could move back there if we get a better forward lineup. Not that Morrissey is a bad pick, just not the direction I think they'd go.


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06-14-2013, 05:37 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I think maybe you have Barkov and Lindholm mixed up. Comparing Barkov with Dastyuk or Sedin is ridiculous if you don't.
That one is a Top Shelf Prospects comparison, not mine. I can try to work out a better one though (doing that for all the prospects I can right now). Any ideas?

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Originally Posted by Limekiller View Post
I really doubt the Sharks take a D at #20 when their biggest need is for high end forward prospects. They have several good to very good D in the system already, plus potentially Burns could move back there if we get a better forward lineup. Not that Morrissey is a bad pick, just not the direction I think they'd go.
Thing is, I don't see anyone in the Sharks prospect pool with the offensive flair to replace Dan Boyle. Maybe Matt Tennyson? I think the Sharks need high-end prospects at any position right now.

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06-15-2013, 07:48 PM
  #30
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Not a real fan of Buffalos picks. Zadorov is ok, but Buffalo will likely steer away from Sinhakruk because they want bigger guys. And with Monahan still there as well, hes a no brainer

And Comrie is a no due to the Sabres G depth

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06-16-2013, 12:22 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Limekiller View Post
I really doubt the Sharks take a D at #20 when their biggest need is for high end forward prospects. They have several good to very good D in the system already, plus potentially Burns could move back there if we get a better forward lineup. Not that Morrissey is a bad pick, just not the direction I think they'd go.
Adding on to my earlier explanation (felt it was a bit brief):

I don't think Morrissey falls lower than 20th overall. He's just too good. My draft heavily emphasizes targeting certain types of players and drafting for need, but there are some players who can only drop to a certain point. Morrissey is a smart, offensively-gifted defenseman with elite skating ability. While he can stand to put on some muscle (as with 90% of prospects), his defensive play is positionally solid. What's not to like?

Furthermore, the Sharks may not have a true blue-chip offensive prospect, but they don't have any elite defensive prospects either. Regardless, at the #20 pick, I don't think they'd be getting an elite forward. Their options, according to my mock, are Gauthier, Zykov, Burakowsky, Rychel, and Compher. All solid prospects, but maybe not elite. Morrissey has the upside to be an elite defenseman in the NHL, and could be a clear-cut successor to Dan Boyle.

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Originally Posted by CaptPantalones View Post
Not a real fan of Buffalos picks. Zadorov is ok, but Buffalo will likely steer away from Sinhakruk because they want bigger guys. And with Monahan still there as well, hes a no brainer

And Comrie is a no due to the Sabres G depth
Good feedback for Comrie. I've taken it into consideration and updated my mock.

However, I disagree with you on Shinkaruk. Who would the Sabres draft ahead of him at that position? Monahan? The Sabres have amassed prospect depth at centre this year with Grigorenko, Larsson, and Girgensons. Taking Mantha at 8th overall would be crazy. Of course, they could take a big defenseman, such as Ristolainen or Pulock. Yet, the Sabres have depth at defense with quality guys like McCabe and McNabb.

What the Sabres are really missing is a blue-chip winger prospect who could play with Grigorenko on a future first line. Shinkaruk addresses that need precisely. Furthermore, Shinkaruk fills a need absent not only in Buffalo's prospect system, but in their roster as well. I can't name one proper first-line winger apart from Vanek (getting old) on the Buffalo roster. Can you?


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06-16-2013, 02:19 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by MrData View Post
Adding on to my earlier explanation (felt it was a bit brief):

I don't think Morrissey falls lower than 20th overall. He's just too good. My draft heavily emphasizes targeting certain types of players and drafting for need, but there are some players who can only drop to a certain point. Morrissey is a smart, offensively-gifted defenseman with elite skating ability. While he can stand to put on some muscle (as with 90% of prospects), his defensive play is positionally solid. What's not to like?

Furthermore, the Sharks may not have a true blue-chip offensive prospect, but they don't have any elite defensive prospects either. Regardless, at the #20 pick, I don't think they'd be getting an elite forward. Their options, according to my mock, are Gauthier, Zykov, Burakowsky, Rychel, and Compher. All solid prospects, but maybe not elite. Morrissey has the upside to be an elite defenseman in the NHL, and could be a clear-cut successor to Dan Boyle.
Oh no, don't get me wrong, like I said, I think Morrissey is a fine pick, and I would hardly be disappointed if we got him. It's also true we don't have a Dan Boyle clone in the pipeline. I suppose it wouldn't surprise me at all if the mock works out like you think that they DID draft him there. From what more knowledgeable Sharks fans have been saying on our boards, they're hoping that Klimchuk or Erne are there, or in a dream scenario, Horvat.

From the forwards you list, some of them are pretty high on Burakowsky, and think he has the potential to be a legit first-line winger. Plus, he brings some serious skating ability which we DEFINITELY need in our forward pool, especially with Havlat seemingly injured any time he sneezes too hard. And, like I said, we have a #1 defenseman, he just happens to be playing forward right now. (Burns) If we get enough improvement at forward, we can move him back there to take over the #1 role as Boyle declines and/or retires. Of course, Morrissey would let us keep Burns at forward, where he excelled. So, I would be happy either way, honestly.

Edit: Also note that your mock is a lot better for us than ANY of the "experts" from NHL.com. 1 had us taking Ryan Hartman. Oh, that's taking Hartman *OVER* Horvat, who is still available on his board at our pick at #20. Another had Ristolainen dropping all the way to us. I think not. The 3rd predicted we would pick Fucale. Goalie our single most crowded prospect position, bar none, and we have a 29-year old vezina finalist goalie already... Oh, and the Yahoo Sports mock draft has Hunter Shinkaruk falling to us at 20. Again, I think not... heh.


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Old
06-16-2013, 08:27 AM
  #33
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I like the V2.0

For whatever reason I keep thinking that if the Habs don't pick McCoshen it will come back to haunt us.

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06-16-2013, 12:26 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by CaptPantalones View Post
Not a real fan of Buffalos picks. Zadorov is ok, but Buffalo will likely steer away from Sinhakruk because they want bigger guys. And with Monahan still there as well, hes a no brainer

And Comrie is a no due to the Sabres G depth
As a Sabres fan, I agree here. At 8 (based on the first 7 picks here), Buffalo would be taking Monahan. We have prospect center depth, but there I see him as the BPA for sure. Otherwise, we'd go Risto to help the blueline. At 16, I would LOVE Zadorov, but I think he will go before 16. I also second the part about Comrie. There would be either BPA, or a player that fills a need that management has on their list.

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06-16-2013, 12:54 PM
  #35
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As a Sabres fan I would be angry at Shinkaruk at #8--too small--we have Ennis, Gerbe who play the same--we need to do better here. Monahan or Ristoleinen would do. Zadorov at 16 is fine. Fasching is not an NHL skater and lacks intensity. He has some tools-but not for a high second round pick. We will not be drafting goalies unless a good one falls to the late rounds....

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06-16-2013, 02:57 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrData View Post
Adding on to my earlier explanation (felt it was a bit brief):

I don't think Morrissey falls lower than 20th overall. He's just too good. My draft heavily emphasizes targeting certain types of players and drafting for need, but there are some players who can only drop to a certain point. Morrissey is a smart, offensively-gifted defenseman with elite skating ability. While he can stand to put on some muscle (as with 90% of prospects), his defensive play is positionally solid. What's not to like?

Furthermore, the Sharks may not have a true blue-chip offensive prospect, but they don't have any elite defensive prospects either. Regardless, at the #20 pick, I don't think they'd be getting an elite forward. Their options, according to my mock, are Gauthier, Zykov, Burakowsky, Rychel, and Compher. All solid prospects, but maybe not elite. Morrissey has the upside to be an elite defenseman in the NHL, and could be a clear-cut successor to Dan Boyle.
I really like Morrissey, but the Sharks simply will not take a defenseman in the first, you can take that from people in the org. Andre Burakovsky, in my opinion, has first line upside, so he'd be my pick. I loved his play at the U18's, he's got all the physical tools (skating, size) and the mental tools (vision, IQ). He has flaws too (selfishness, skinniness) but I think the pros far outweigh the cons when you look at the upside he has. I'd be very happy with him at 20.

If you look at the highest scoring defensemen, most of them are not from the first round. Subban (2nd round), Letang (3rd round), Suter (first round, top-10), Markov (6th round), Yandle (4th round), Kronwall (1s round, 29th overall), Timonen (10th round), Franson (3rd round), Weber (2nd round), Phaneuf (1st round, top-10), Byfuglian (7th round), Campbell (6th round), J. Schultz (2nd round), Streit (9th round), Keith (2nd round), Gonchar (1st, 14th overall), Goligoski (2nd round), Green (1st round, 29th overall), Voynov (2nd round), and Beauchemin (3rd round) make up the top-20 scoring defensemen this season. Only 5 of 20 guys were drafted in the first round (Suter, Kronwall, Phaneuf, Gonchar, and Green). 8 of them were 3rd round or later. So basically what I"m trying to say is that the best offensive defensemen are generally found outside the 1st round. Dan Boyle himself was undrafted.

As for 49 and 50. I quite like Heatherington and I don't mind Bjorkstrand, but in your mock Poirier and Dano are clearly both better players. And for 58, I'm curious as to your detailed opinion of M-O Roy. I don't know much about him, except that he came on this year as a late birthdate. I'd like to hear your opinion, because as it stands I'd prefer Connor Hurley there.

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06-16-2013, 08:39 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by TragicallySabres View Post
As a Sabres fan, I agree here. At 8 (based on the first 7 picks here), Buffalo would be taking Monahan. We have prospect center depth, but there I see him as the BPA for sure. Otherwise, we'd go Risto to help the blueline. At 16, I would LOVE Zadorov, but I think he will go before 16. I also second the part about Comrie. There would be either BPA, or a player that fills a need that management has on their list.
This draft is the perfect draft to take players based on need, not BPA. That's because the draft is so deep and there is so much parity among the 1st round prospects, especially top-10. Buffalo taking Monahan would make no sense with Grigorenko, Hodgson, and Girgensons already in the organization.

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Originally Posted by hizzoner View Post
As a Sabres fan I would be angry at Shinkaruk at #8--too small--we have Ennis, Gerbe who play the same--we need to do better here. Monahan or Ristoleinen would do. Zadorov at 16 is fine. Fasching is not an NHL skater and lacks intensity. He has some tools-but not for a high second round pick. We will not be drafting goalies unless a good one falls to the late rounds....
The Sabres currently have no first-line winger prospects (or even first-line wingers, apart from Vanek, for that matter) in their organization. You can't afford to not draft Shinkaruk at that spot if he's still on the board, unless of course Nichushkin is still available. Ennis and Gerbe are third-line forwards on the 29 other teams in the NHL.

As for Fasching, he's a boom-or-bust project prospect with a very high upside. This is from Top Shelf Prospects:

Quote:
Fasching has all the tools you would want in a power forward prospect. Still just 17 years old, he is 603 and 213 lbs. Fasching takes the puck to the net, and can score goals in tight, or via a good wrist shot and snap shot with a quick release. He gets to the front of the net, where he uses his big body to establish position, and his soft hands to bang in rebounds or make deflections. Fasching is a load to handle in the corners and loves to play a strong, physical game, with plenty of hits on the forecheck. He has also shown good vision and passing skill off the wing.

Fasching is a powerful skater with a long stride. He is a natural power forward who has excellent balance and is very tough to knock of the puck. His power and size allows him to fight off checks, and to bulldoze through defencemen off the rush or own the cycle. His top end speed is good, but the acceleration could be improved going forward, especially his first step. Fasching shows good agility and he has the natural athletic ability but must refine his skating technique with some work on his turning and edgework.
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I really like Morrissey, but the Sharks simply will not take a defenseman in the first, you can take that from people in the org. Andre Burakovsky, in my opinion, has first line upside, so he'd be my pick. I loved his play at the U18's, he's got all the physical tools (skating, size) and the mental tools (vision, IQ). He has flaws too (selfishness, skinniness) but I think the pros far outweigh the cons when you look at the upside he has. I'd be very happy with him at 20.

If you look at the highest scoring defensemen, most of them are not from the first round. Subban (2nd round), Letang (3rd round), Suter (first round, top-10), Markov (6th round), Yandle (4th round), Kronwall (1s round, 29th overall), Timonen (10th round), Franson (3rd round), Weber (2nd round), Phaneuf (1st round, top-10), Byfuglian (7th round), Campbell (6th round), J. Schultz (2nd round), Streit (9th round), Keith (2nd round), Gonchar (1st, 14th overall), Goligoski (2nd round), Green (1st round, 29th overall), Voynov (2nd round), and Beauchemin (3rd round) make up the top-20 scoring defensemen this season. Only 5 of 20 guys were drafted in the first round (Suter, Kronwall, Phaneuf, Gonchar, and Green). 8 of them were 3rd round or later. So basically what I"m trying to say is that the best offensive defensemen are generally found outside the 1st round. Dan Boyle himself was undrafted.

As for 49 and 50. I quite like Heatherington and I don't mind Bjorkstrand, but in your mock Poirier and Dano are clearly both better players. And for 58, I'm curious as to your detailed opinion of M-O Roy. I don't know much about him, except that he came on this year as a late birthdate. I'd like to hear your opinion, because as it stands I'd prefer Connor Hurley there.
I see your point about taking defensemen in the first round, but it's very hard to pass up an elite skater (top-5 in the draft) like Morrissey, especially with his hockey IQ and offensive talent. You could compare him to Morgan Rielly, who was taken at 5th overall last year. Would you pass him up at the 20th spot? Hell, Pietrangelo was taken 4th overall and he's one of the best young defensemen in the league, and will probably win a Norris someday. However, you seem to have a source in the Sharks organization, so I'll take your word on this one.

I wouldn't sell Heatherington short, especially if the Sharks are planning to take a forward in the first round. He's a great prospect who could be an imposing two-way presence on the Sharks blueline for years to come. He played a great U18 tourney with Team Canada. As for Bjorkstrand, Central Scouting and TSP disagree with you.

I'm a fan of the Blainville-Boisbriand Armada, and I went to almost every game this year. Roy is a superb skater with a knack for putting the puck in the net, but can also make great plays. Best of all, he has a winning attitude and the drive to become a successful NHL player. A real character player with skill, grit, and determination. I think he's going to develop into a good top-6 winger (Good 2nd liner or complimentary 1st), and at worst he'll be a solid 3rd line energy player who can provide secondary scoring.

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06-16-2013, 11:36 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrData View Post
I see your point about taking defensemen in the first round, but it's very hard to pass up an elite skater (top-5 in the draft) like Morrissey, especially with his hockey IQ and offensive talent. You could compare him to Morgan Rielly, who was taken at 5th overall last year. Would you pass him up at the 20th spot? Hell, Pietrangelo was taken 4th overall and he's one of the best young defensemen in the league, and will probably win a Norris someday. However, you seem to have a source in the Sharks organization, so I'll take your word on this one.
I personally don't have a source, but another Sharks poster seems to and believes strongly that the Sharks will take a forward in the first.

I love Morrissey personally, just because I've paid close attention to his off-ice demeanor and he seems like possibly the smartest and most mature kid in the draft, and I know the Sharks' brass holds tricky interviews and highly values true great character. So if the Sharks were to take a defenseman, it would be possible that they take Morrissey. However. I have concerns about his ability to be effective defensively in the NHL, and again, Reilly and Pietrangelo were top-5 picks. And I also trust history on this one: the best offensive defensemen often come from the later rounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrData View Post
I wouldn't sell Heatherington short, especially if the Sharks are planning to take a forward in the first round. He's a great prospect who could be an imposing two-way presence on the Sharks blueline for years to come. He played a great U18 tourney with Team Canada. As for Bjorkstrand, Central Scouting and TSP disagree with you.
If you happened upon the Heatherington thread on the prospects sub-forum, you'll find a glowing review of his play at the U18's from me. He impressed me that much with his smarts and defensive reads and skating, he reminded me a lot of SJ's own Marc-Edouard Vlasic, which is high praise for any defenseman's ability in his own end. He's definitely the sort of prospect you have to see to properly value. So while I would not be at all upset with Heatherington, I just am very high on Emile Poirier and would prefer to take him. As for Bjorkstrand, there's no denying his hands and skating, but I worry he's too much of a perimeter player to succeed in the NHL (not a knock on his size, but his style). I prefer Dano.

Quote:
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I'm a fan of the Blainville-Boisbriand Armada, and I went to almost every game this year. Roy is a superb skater with a knack for putting the puck in the net, but can also make great plays. Best of all, he has a winning attitude and the drive to become a successful NHL player. A real character player with skill, grit, and determination. I think he's going to develop into a good top-6 winger (Good 2nd liner or complimentary 1st), and at worst he'll be a solid 3rd line energy player who can provide secondary scoring.
Sounds like a solid player. I'll definitely keep him in mind.

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06-17-2013, 07:12 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I love Morrissey personally, just because I've paid close attention to his off-ice demeanor and he seems like possibly the smartest and most mature kid in the draft, and I know the Sharks' brass holds tricky interviews and highly values true great character. So if the Sharks were to take a defenseman, it would be possible that they take Morrissey. However. I have concerns about his ability to be effective defensively in the NHL, and again, Reilly and Pietrangelo were top-5 picks. And I also trust history on this one: the best offensive defensemen often come from the later rounds.
That's the beauty of this draft. A guy who falls to 20th overall in this could have been picked in the top 5 of last year's draft. I see Morrissey as pretty much equivalent to Rielly. I'm absolutely stoked for June 30th, as the sheer depth of talent and parity not only makes my job as a mock drafter very hard, but also makes the draft very exciting. There's no telling who will drop out of the top-5, top-10, first round... And while I've got Morrissey at 21st now, my gut tells me there's no way he falls that low.

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06-18-2013, 06:38 PM
  #40
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However, I disagree with you on Shinkaruk. Who would the Sabres draft ahead of him at that position? Monahan? The Sabres have amassed prospect depth at centre this year with Grigorenko, Larsson, and Girgensons. Taking Mantha at 8th overall would be crazy. Of course, they could take a big defenseman, such as Ristolainen or Pulock. Yet, the Sabres have depth at defense with quality guys like McCabe and McNabb.

What the Sabres are really missing is a blue-chip winger prospect who could play with Grigorenko on a future first line. Shinkaruk addresses that need precisely. Furthermore, Shinkaruk fills a need absent not only in Buffalo's prospect system, but in their roster as well. I can't name one proper first-line winger apart from Vanek (getting old) on the Buffalo roster. Can you?
Well, yeah...I'd take Monahan over Shinkaruk. Having a lot of center prospects =/= having a lot of centers. Hodgson is literally the only natural center on our roster right now that actually belongs in the NHL. More centers would definitely not hurt us. But I'd also be glad to select Shinkaruk if Lindholm and Monahan are both off the board. Some Sabres fans are just obsessed with size because Gerbe is disappointing or something. Shinkaruk would fill some huge needs for us: he's pretty fast (which isn't something we have much of on the roster), he's highly skilled, he's a natural winger, and he's got A+ work ethic (at least based on everything I've read about him). Also, 5'11" isn't that tiny. It's below average, but not by much. Bigger than both Gerbe and Ennis anyway.

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