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Old
06-18-2013, 12:44 PM
  #951
Jame
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Can we just trade Miller for Clutterbuck and Gilbert. maybe we can take Konopka too

(I dont think Miller has much trade value in terms of "futures")

bottom 6:
Bickell-Gordon-Clutterbuck
Scott-Konopka-Kaleta

Can I watch that^ during a rebuild instead of a bunch mighty mouse, AHL guy, and collegiate kid
:please:

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06-18-2013, 12:52 PM
  #952
Jacob582
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So let me get this straight. Minnesota is going to trade its best non-roster defensive prospect in order to get rid of Heatley's salary and acquire Miller? Why not just pluck one of the other million available goaltenders or re-sign Backstrom at a lower rate and keep Dumba? Minnesota can buy out Gilbert, too, now that he fulfilled his role of helping to recruit Parise to the Wild.

Unless that + you're referring to is Grigorenko/Armia, that trade isn't going to happen.
Minnesota is going to trade its best non-roster defensive prospect in order to ice a complete lineup and stay under the salary cap next year and compete for the Stanley Cup.

(You know, it probably wouldn't be Dumba but the concept is still there: Sabres need prospects/picks and can take on salary and "suffer" next season; Wild need a starting goalie, salary cap relief and to compete for the Cup next season)

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Old
06-18-2013, 12:53 PM
  #953
Jacob582
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Can we just trade Miller for Clutterbuck and Gilbert. maybe we can take Konopka too

(I dont think Miller has much trade value in terms of "futures")

bottom 6:
Bickell-Gordon-Clutterbuck
Scott-Konopka-Kaleta

Can I watch that^ during a rebuild instead of a bunch mighty mouse, AHL guy, and collegiate kid
:please:
I see what you are doing. Trying to improve the roster for next season are you?

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06-18-2013, 01:59 PM
  #954
Zip15
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Originally Posted by Jacob582 View Post
Minnesota is going to trade its best non-roster defensive prospect in order to ice a complete lineup and stay under the salary cap next year and compete for the Stanley Cup.

(You know, it probably wouldn't be Dumba but the concept is still there: Sabres need prospects/picks and can take on salary and "suffer" next season; Wild need a starting goalie, salary cap relief and to compete for the Cup next season)
So Minnesota is in cap trouble and is going to trade a low cost, cost-controlled asset. Got it!

Minnesota has some huge contracts on its hands and is going to need low-cost production from its ELC studs in Brodin, Coyle, Granlund, Zucker, Dumba, et al. They can't move those guys. Gilbert, Clutterbuck, and Konopka will all be long gone before those top ELC guys will be moved.

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06-18-2013, 02:03 PM
  #955
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So Minnesota is in cap trouble and is going to trade a low cost, cost-controlled asset. Got it!
I think that the assumption Minnesota would have to add a prospect incentive to dump their higher contract players is reasonable enough

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06-18-2013, 02:12 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
I think that the assumption Minnesota would have to add a prospect incentive to dump their higher contract players is reasonable enough
Sadly, this one of the stupidest presumptions on HF: That teams are going to start dumping elite prospects in order to become cap compliant. Several times per season/offseason there are reports that a team needs to start cutting salary, and the vultures (other fanbases) start circling and demanding that the troubled team start pawning off their best prospects in addition to bad contracts. Invariably, the teams iron out the issues without giving up their top guys.

Minnesota can do numerous things to become cap compliant without trading Dumba. And they will.

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06-18-2013, 02:24 PM
  #957
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If they think Miller is a goalie that can help them get to where they want to go, yeah, they will add something significant.

Fletcher has said no. 1 goalie is their top priority this off-season. If they felt they could sign any of a million other goalies, or thought Backstrom was the answer, it would probably already done. Minnesota is clearly in their window now, and they know it, hence the Pominville trade. I doubt they want to gamble on goaltender.

Sure they can become cap compliant without moving him. But can they do it and improve their current team at the same time?

I proposed Miller + Gerbe for Heatley + Dumba in the thread on the trade board. One guy politely declined, the other said he'd take it and run, FWIW.


Last edited by stokes84: 06-18-2013 at 02:39 PM.
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Old
06-18-2013, 02:32 PM
  #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Sadly, this one of the stupidest presumptions on HF: That teams are going to start dumping elite prospects in order to become cap compliant. Several times per season/offseason there are reports that a team needs to start cutting salary, and the vultures (other fanbases) start circling and demanding that the troubled team start pawning off their best prospects in addition to bad contracts. Invariably, the teams iron out the issues without giving up their top guys.

Minnesota can do numerous things to become cap compliant without trading Dumba. And they will.
Isn't the rumor that they want to move Heatley specifically because they can't buy him out?

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06-18-2013, 02:37 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Sadly, this one of the stupidest presumptions on HF: That teams are going to start dumping elite prospects in order to become cap compliant. Several times per season/offseason there are reports that a team needs to start cutting salary, and the vultures (other fanbases) start circling and demanding that the troubled team start pawning off their best prospects in addition to bad contracts. Invariably, the teams iron out the issues without giving up their top guys.

Minnesota can do numerous things to become cap compliant without trading Dumba. And they will.
Sure the teams have ironed out their issues in past without giving up their top guys. But for the first time in 8 years the salary cap is going down next season. We are in new territory.

As I agreed above, it probably wouldn't be Dumba in this case, but it could be some other asset. Never said that a team would give up an "elite" prospect just to become cap compliant (but to improve their team now and stay under the salary cap).

-A team may give up an elite prospect for an established player that will fit under the cap and help them win now (Erat trade).
-They may give up good prospects for a player and money to win now (Pominville trade).
-They may give up additional assets in a trade for $3M (Kotalik).

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:46 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
Isn't the rumor that they want to move Heatley specifically because they can't buy him out?
Yeah, I think some people anticipated at the beginning of the season that Heatley would be their compliance buyout to be under the cap next year, but now he is hurt.

So now Wild need to find another way to do it (trade bait? Setoguchi, Brodziak, Konopka, Gilbert, Clutterbuck)

Or they can take the stokes84 approach and have the Sabres take Heatley.

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:47 PM
  #961
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Miller at full salary for Heatley and Clutterbuck. Buffalo eats Heatley's salary but gets Clutterbuck for at least a few RFA years. I was thinking about this deal before today's speculation from Russo. Taking on any of Miller's salary should require a draft pick.

Edit - this is only if Minny can't get a deal with Backstrom.

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06-18-2013, 02:49 PM
  #962
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We were just talking about Clutterbuck a week or so ago. He'd be a perfect fit here.

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:49 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
Isn't the rumor that they want to move Heatley specifically because they can't buy him out?
Yeah, a player has to be healthy to be bought out and the first buyout ends July 5th, meaning Killer, err Heater might be unable to pass the physical.

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Old
06-18-2013, 03:05 PM
  #964
Zip15
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
If they think Miller is a goalie that can help them get to where they want to go, yeah, they will add something significant.

Fletcher has said no. 1 goalie is their top priority this off-season. If they felt they could sign any of a million other goalies, or thought Backstrom was the answer, it would probably already done. Minnesota is clearly in their window now, and they know it, hence the Pominville trade. I doubt they want to gamble on goaltender.

Sure they can become cap compliant without moving him. But can they do it and improve their current team at the same time?

I proposed Miller + Gerbe for Heatley + Dumba in the thread on the trade board. One guy politely declined, the other said he'd take it and run, FWIW.
That you weren't excoriated for the offered deal doesn't necessarily mean it makes sense for the Wild. Dumba is a year removed from being a top-10 pick, and plays a position at which the Wild lack depth. Given the supply/demand in the goaltender market, I can't see Miller having the value to pull back a top-10 pick a year removed from his draft year.

The Wild have alternatives both in terms of buyouts (Gilbert), on the trade market (Clutterbuck, Konopka), and in the goaltending market (too many to name) to justify such a deal, IMO.

Now, if we want to consider dealing them Vanek, I think Dumba is very much on the table. But not with Miller as the centerpiece.

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06-18-2013, 04:03 PM
  #965
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That you weren't excoriated for the offered deal doesn't necessarily mean it makes sense for the Wild. Dumba is a year removed from being a top-10 pick, and plays a position at which the Wild lack depth. Given the supply/demand in the goaltender market, I can't see Miller having the value to pull back a top-10 pick a year removed from his draft year.

The Wild have alternatives both in terms of buyouts (Gilbert), on the trade market (Clutterbuck, Konopka), and in the goaltending market (too many to name) to justify such a deal, IMO.

Now, if we want to consider dealing them Vanek, I think Dumba is very much on the table. But not with Miller as the centerpiece.
I don't know why people think one year of Vanek is going to land you an elite prospect!!


(Just kidding.....I've read your posts this past year and you have a good hockey mind....I agree with most of your opinions)

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Old
06-18-2013, 06:49 PM
  #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Can we just trade Miller for Clutterbuck and Gilbert. maybe we can take Konopka too

(I dont think Miller has much trade value in terms of "futures")

bottom 6:
Bickell-Gordon-Clutterbuck
Scott-Konopka-Kaleta

Can I watch that^ during a rebuild instead of a bunch mighty mouse, AHL guy, and collegiate kid
:please:
I'd be happy with that. With Ott and Foligno, at least we'd see visiting teams black and blue after a night at FNC.

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06-18-2013, 07:07 PM
  #967
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I don't know why people think one year of Vanek is going to land you an elite prospect!!


(Just kidding.....I've read your posts this past year and you have a good hockey mind....I agree with most of your opinions)
I think something around Vanek for Heatley and Dumba is a smart move for both parties. Minnesota gets out from Heatley's deal and gets a fantastic goal scorer to play on the top line. It also gives them a year head start to sign Vanek to a long term deal. Dumba would be a fantastic addition to our blueline we could definitely use a guy with top pairing potential and maybe Minnesota at least entertains moving him with the emergence of Brodin.

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06-19-2013, 12:07 AM
  #968
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Foligno-Ott-Flynn
Clutterbuck-Konopka-Kaleta

Would be a beauty of a bottom six.

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Old
06-19-2013, 02:09 AM
  #969
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You'll rarely hear me say something negative about a depth player we could pick up on the cheap, but I'd like my fourth liners to be better hockey players than Zenon Konopka. He's faceoffs and fighting majors and that's it.

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06-19-2013, 02:18 AM
  #970
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I'd be happy with that. With Ott and Foligno, at least we'd see visiting teams black and blue after a night at FNC.
And a nice tan for Enroth.

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06-19-2013, 03:12 AM
  #971
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Are people just forgetting about Tropp or what? Why does no one put him in their lineup?

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06-19-2013, 05:17 AM
  #972
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I think something around Vanek for Heatley and Dumba is a smart move for both parties. Minnesota gets out from Heatley's deal and gets a fantastic goal scorer to play on the top line. It also gives them a year head start to sign Vanek to a long term deal. Dumba would be a fantastic addition to our blueline we could definitely use a guy with top pairing potential and maybe Minnesota at least entertains moving him with the emergence of Brodin.
I think that would be a good start, but I wouldn't trade Vanek for Dumba straight up, and now we have to take Heatley's contract on top of that?

Vanek for Heatley, Dumba, 2014 1st and one of Clutterbuck/Haulak/Zucker

Dumba and the 1st is a good start for Vanek and the additional roster player or prospect is compensation for Heatley's contract.

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06-19-2013, 06:54 AM
  #973
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Are people just forgetting about Tropp or what? Why does no one put him in their lineup?
Knee injury makes him a question mark. Also, Flynn kind of took his spot while he was out.

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Old
06-19-2013, 07:57 AM
  #974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elum View Post
Are people just forgetting about Tropp or what? Why does no one put him in their lineup?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Knee injury makes him a question mark. Also, Flynn kind of took his spot while he was out.
Until he can show he's fully recovered, he's not a sure thing. Depth energy wingers who can't catch someone to hit them become AHLers -- see: Hamel, Denis.

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And a nice tan for Enroth.
That's pretty much a given at this point if they deal the vets.

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06-19-2013, 08:56 AM
  #975
Zip15
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Are people just forgetting about Tropp or what? Why does no one put him in their lineup?
People aren't forgetting about him at all. It's just a recognition that he had a major knee injury and people want to see if he's able to return to his pre-injury form. It's not as if a knee injury hasn't completely derailed the development of other prospects in this organization (Schiestel, Drew).

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