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1965 IIHF Position on NHL Pros Playing in Europe

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06-13-2013, 11:08 AM
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Canadiens1958
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1965 IIHF Position on NHL Pros Playing in Europe

1965 IIHF position on NHL pros playing in Europe:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...7206%2C1338269


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...5094%2C1598740

Rather interesting to say the least. Did not want comparables?


Last edited by Canadiens1958: 06-13-2013 at 11:12 AM. Reason: link
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06-13-2013, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Did not want comparables?
What else can one assume? That a light would be shone on the IIHF's complicity in working with the Soviets & the rest of the European Federations in barring the door to Canadian Pro's for years, diluting Canada's teams restricted as they were to "amateurs"? I would call that being rather insecure, disingenuous. That Bunny would go so far as to ban even a hockey clinic or camp with serious ramifications for the host arena ('s)? Crazy.

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06-18-2013, 12:08 AM
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I don't get it, were there no professional hockey teams back in '65 in Europe

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06-18-2013, 01:53 AM
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I'm not getting the Royal Canadian Air Force hiring ad seeking new pilots in the paper either. Strange irony.

"Commercial pilots are not eligible"?

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06-18-2013, 05:09 AM
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Reserve

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I'm not getting the Royal Canadian Air Force hiring ad seeking new pilots in the paper either. Strange irony.

"Commercial pilots are not eligible"?
It was the RCAF "Reserve" subject to immediate call-up when required. Commercial pilots may not have been readily available.

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06-18-2013, 05:18 AM
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IIHF Definition

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Originally Posted by Ziostilon View Post
I don't get it, were there no professional hockey teams back in '65 in Europe
Not as defined by the IIHF. Side note, the Bruins and Rangers had barnstormed Europe after the 1958-59 season:

http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com...s-history.html

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06-18-2013, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
1965 IIHF position on NHL pros playing in Europe:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...7206%2C1338269


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...5094%2C1598740

Rather interesting to say the least. Did not want comparables?
Thank you for posting these, very informative. I still can't believe how badly the IIHF discriminated against North Americans. People like to write this off as ancient history but past behavior like this is one of the reasons North Americans, even today, feel the way they do about the World Championships. It's kind of surprising too that it was led by an Irish/Englishman, since they are typically the most NA friendly countries in Europe.

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06-18-2013, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
Thank you for posting these, very informative. I still can't believe how badly the IIHF discriminated against North Americans. People like to write this off as ancient history but past behavior like this is one of the reasons North Americans, even today, feel the way they do about the World Championships. It's kind of surprising too that it was led by an Irish/Englishman, since they are typically the most NA friendly countries in Europe.
It's obvious you don't have clue of the whole mentality towards "professional athletes" in that era. It was still very well controlled by the "amateur people" starting with the IOC. There weren't that many pro athletes in general in Europe back then. It basically wasn't until the mid-to-late 1980's that e.g. hockey players in Finland could get a living from playing just hockey and not have a second job on the side.

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06-18-2013, 09:16 AM
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Here are a couple other somewhat related links:

See stories 6, 13, 17

http://www.iihf.com/100-years/100-ye...p-stories.html

A little more here about the Ahearne - Canada rivalry

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=156734

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06-18-2013, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
It's obvious you don't have clue of the whole mentality towards "professional athletes" in that era. It was still very well controlled by the "amateur people" starting with the IOC. There weren't that many pro athletes in general in Europe back then. It basically wasn't until the mid-to-late 1980's that e.g. hockey players in Finland could get a living from playing just hockey and not have a second job on the side.
You obviously don't know what discrimination and exclusion mean.

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06-18-2013, 09:46 AM
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Soccer, Boxing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
It's obvious you don't have clue of the whole mentality towards "professional athletes" in that era. It was still very well controlled by the "amateur people" starting with the IOC. There weren't that many pro athletes in general in Europe back then. It basically wasn't until the mid-to-late 1980's that e.g. hockey players in Finland could get a living from playing just hockey and not have a second job on the side.
European soccer,wrestling and boxing certainly had pro athletes - Ingemar Johansson World Heavyweight boxing champion. Then there was the interesting case of Laszlo Papp - 3 time Olympic Gold Medal champion - 1948,1952,1956 who turned pro with great success only to see the Hungarian government deny him an opportunity in 1965:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Papp

Then you have professional golf - the British Open, which featured professionals in the 19th century:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Open_Championship

before professional sport was even a possibility in. NA

Professional athletes in NA held second jobs well into the 1980s and beyond.

Using an apples to apples comparison with your Finnish hockey analogy in the 1980s, pro hockey players in the NA leagues below the NHL, minor league baseball players across NA, the CFL all worked second and/or seasonal jobs.

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06-18-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
It's obvious you don't have clue of the whole mentality towards "professional athletes" in that era. It was still very well controlled by the "amateur people" starting with the IOC. There weren't that many pro athletes in general in Europe back then. It basically wasn't until the mid-to-late 1980's that e.g. hockey players in Finland could get a living from playing just hockey and not have a second job on the side.
It bothers me that you are constantly an apolgist for these old discriminatory practices yet you are probably the most adamant person here that the NHL professionals continue to participate in the Olympics and World Championships. How about for once showing some appreciation for the people who helped make that happen?

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06-18-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
It was the RCAF "Reserve" subject to immediate call-up when required. Commercial pilots may not have been readily available.
I know, just thought it was funny the RCAF didn't want Professional pilots in their units.

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06-18-2013, 01:38 PM
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Well Done

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I know, just thought it was funny the RCAF didn't want Professional pilots in their units.
Snuck that right by me. Well done.

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06-18-2013, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
European soccer,wrestling and boxing certainly had pro athletes - Ingemar Johansson World Heavyweight boxing champion. Then there was the interesting case of Laszlo Papp - 3 time Olympic Gold Medal champion - 1948,1952,1956 who turned pro with great success only to see the Hungarian government deny him an opportunity in 1965:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Papp

Then you have professional golf - the British Open, which featured professionals in the 19th century:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Open_Championship

before professional sport was even a possibility in. NA

Professional athletes in NA held second jobs well into the 1980s and beyond.

Using an apples to apples comparison with your Finnish hockey analogy in the 1980s, pro hockey players in the NA leagues below the NHL, minor league baseball players across NA, the CFL all worked second and/or seasonal jobs.
What I meant that there's professionalism and there's "professionalism". Besides, football pros weren't allowed in Olympics anyway.

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06-18-2013, 04:42 PM
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Definitions

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What I meant that there's professionalism and there's "professionalism". Besides, football pros weren't allowed in Olympics anyway.
Neither were hockey pros BUT football pros played and continued playing in European football stadiums.

Georges Carpentier participated in the first $1,000,000 boxing gate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Carpentier

yet he could box in European boxing venues like European amateur boxers.

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06-18-2013, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Neither were hockey pros BUT football pros played and continued playing in European football stadiums.

Georges Carpentier participated in the first $1,000,000 boxing gate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Carpentier

yet he could box in European boxing venues like European amateur boxers.
Team sports were treated differently all over back then. Golf and boxing were like the only "known" pro sports.

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06-18-2013, 06:46 PM
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Known Sports

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Team sports were treated differently all over back then. Golf and boxing were like the only "known" pro sports.
Europe created professional sports as an off shoot of amateur sports - gambling and paid athlets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_sport

Plus football, professional in Great Britain 1892 then spreading to the continent. Horse Racing - Epsom Darby since 1780, Tennis in France and Britain since 1930. F1 and other types of car racing since 1950.

But this is not an exercise in listing. The IIHF targeted the actual venue and not professional athletes for sanctions. No other governing sport federation ever targeted the venue like the IIHF did. This is the only issue.

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06-18-2013, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
I still can't believe how badly the IIHF discriminated against North Americans. People like to write this off as ancient history but past behavior like this is one of the reasons North Americans, even today, feel the way they do about the World Championships. It's kind of surprising too that it was led by an Irish/Englishman, since they are typically the most NA friendly countries in Europe.
There were serious enmities between Ahearne & the CAHA, perhaps most personified or coming to a real head in 1964 at the combined Olympics & World Championships when through skullduggery Ahearne arbitrarily changed the rules in excluding Canada from its rightful Bronze Medal in order to award all 3 medals to European nations. This sort of nonsense had been going on with Ahearne at least since 1948 if not even earlier, the roots, motivations for which were of a monetary nature, as Bunny there had cast a wide net through initially making travel arrangements through his London based travel agency for touring North American teams & both British and Continental, Northern European teams to Tournaments etc.

Additionally, he was involved in arena development, a member of a little known organization out of New York called the Association of Eastern Arena Developers (worth looking into, though Ive been able to find exactly zero on who else was involved), was the first to sell advertising on rink boards, broadcast rights with initially radio & then television & so on. As the UK & Europe was essentially "his territory", he tilted the rinks in favour of European dominance in leading the charge to bar Canadian pro's, and then when our top amateurs competed, as was the case in 64 with Father David Bauers squad, would apply IIHF to what was an Olympic Games & subject to OIC Rules, Goal Differentials & W/L columns moved around to insure Europeans would win including extreme bias by on-ice referees. That the Czechs or whomever would win was good for Bunnys many business interests as it boosted the sports popularity.

In 2004/2005, there was in fact a rather Big Stink made by Hockey Canada, who were unaware of the controversy in 1964, demanded redress, that Canadians receive their much belated Bronze Medals, however, had the IIHF agreed to that, then theyd have opened Pandoras Box. All of Ahearnes decisions & rule changes, by-laws etc going back years. This wouldve wound up in the Court of International Sport in Lausanne, costing millions, embarrassing the IIHF to no end, a complete re-think & revision of every major Tournament & WC, Olympics from WW2 through the 70's. So ya, Ahearne was a piece of work alright. He discovered hockey himself in the 20's in London, seeing it as his own personal vehicle to wealth. Managed the British Team that won a Gold in 34 or 36 WC, insinuating himself into the British Federation, onward & upward, and as crooked as a dogs hind leg.


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