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Old
06-17-2013, 11:37 PM
  #26
BrindamoursNose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I couldn't exactly make it a perfect comparison.

Bieksa > Coburn
24th < 11th
Hansen = Read
Tanev < Couturier
Edler > Voracek
Kassian = Laughton
Voracek and Edler are prettttttttty close at the moment.

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Old
06-18-2013, 12:14 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackBob View Post
Edler+Kassian for Couturier, Coburn, Read, 11th overall, and a 2nd (or 2014 1st?)
Vancouver gets younger at the expense of two very good players. Flyers use their depth to upgrade Coburn to Edler, and get bigger+tougher up front from Read to Kassian. Laughton takes Couturier's spot as 3C. Is this far off? Just for fun. No need to get mad if it is.
We wouldn't be trading our 1st in this deal. Because of age and contracts, Coots value is close to that of Edler. Read is more skilled than Kassian but again because of contracts call them about even. Our 2nd this year (41st in a deep draft) should be more than enough to balance things. No need for philly to include Coburn AND our 1st.

However, with us just signing Streit, I can't see any reason Philly considers trading Coots for another PMD who is questionable in his own zone.

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Old
06-18-2013, 12:18 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackBob View Post
I explained why we would have the depth in the OP. Plus, considering our young core it's not as if we'd be declining anytime soon.


A lot of people are missing that I'm a Flyers fan hahahah. Adding Edler at the expense of Coburn would make our D a strength for the time being IMO.
You do understand that Coburn is better defensively than Edler is don't you??? Yeah Edler would be able to move the puck for us and provide some offense but that's what we just signed Streit to do.

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Old
06-18-2013, 12:47 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I couldn't exactly make it a perfect comparison.

Bieksa > Coburn
24th < 11th
Hansen = Read
Tanev < Couturier
Edler > Voracek
Kassian = Laughton
LolIRL, aside from the Bolded I would bet money that there are some fans that would argue Coburn is better then Bieksa. And the < next to Couturier should probably be a <<<<<<<<<<

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Old
06-18-2013, 01:00 AM
  #30
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Basically what this thread comes down to is our owner can beat up your owner. Lol @ the Flyers with their weak, 80 year old man running the show.

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Old
06-18-2013, 01:24 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackBob View Post
Edler+Kassian for Couturier, Coburn, Read, 11th overall, and a 2nd (or 2014 1st?)
Vancouver gets younger at the expense of two very good players. Flyers use their depth to upgrade Coburn to Edler, and get bigger+tougher up front from Read to Kassian. Laughton takes Couturier's spot as 3C. Is this far off? Just for fun. No need to get mad if it is.

Geez, take the title to my car and mail it to a random Vancouver resident while you're at it.

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Old
06-18-2013, 02:41 AM
  #32
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Why does Matt Read get no credit from any fanbase?? Is it because he wasn't Drafted and come into the NHL as a prolific prospect on Hockey's Future TOP 50?

I mean what the Hell people the kid has proven he can play at a pretty High level and can make an impact I jut don't get it, i would take him on Boston any day of the week If he is being given away like in these proposals lately

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06-18-2013, 02:52 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Danglefest View Post
Why does Matt Read get no credit from any fanbase?? Is it because he wasn't Drafted and come into the NHL as a prolific prospect on Hockey's Future TOP 50?

I mean what the Hell people the kid has proven he can play at a pretty High level and can make an impact I jut don't get it, i would take him on Boston any day of the week If he is being given away like in these proposals lately
Most people from the Flyers board realize that we may not be able to afford him after next year. He is a UFA the same year that Couturier, B Schenn and Giroux are all RFAs. I think he's more important and less inclined to throw him around in proposals as hes a 50-60 point Utility forward that plays on our PP PK and at any position. I don't think he gets dealt. He either walks as a F/A or between now and this time next year there are shakeups in the organization that allows us to keep him. Our wing depth is fairly shallow compared to our C's. After Voracek I think hes the 2nd most important winger we have over Simmonds and Hartnell. Not to say he carries the same or greater value then those 2 but as far as importance to the club I think hes more important then either.

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Old
06-18-2013, 03:07 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Voracek and Edler are prettttttttty close at the moment.
not really

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06-18-2013, 03:09 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
not really
you are right sir. Voracek >>>>>>>>>> Edler

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Old
06-18-2013, 05:08 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
you are right sir. Voracek >>>>>>>>>> Edler
Sure why not

and Derek Roy>>>>>>>Claude Giroux

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Old
06-18-2013, 06:20 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackBob View Post
Edler+Kassian for Couturier, Coburn, Read, 11th overall, and a 2nd (or 2014 1st?)
Vancouver gets younger at the expense of two very good players. Flyers use their depth to upgrade Coburn to Edler, and get bigger+tougher up front from Read to Kassian. Laughton takes Couturier's spot as 3C. Is this far off? Just for fun. No need to get mad if it is.
Edler is worth Couts and the second(only until Couts breaks out)
So then you think Kassian is worth Read, 11th overall pick and Coburn?

What I see is Edler is better than Coburn. Yet TODAY both Read and the 11th overall are better than Kassian. Then there is still the 2nd/maybe 1st floating around!

There is no possible combination that makes sense for Philly. In fact, for Edler and Kassian, I would offer Couts and Coburn...no more. Downgrade the F to upgrade the D. And salaries are close.

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Old
06-18-2013, 06:31 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Having a hard time seeing how Vancouver fans are turning this down. It's atrocious for the Flyers.

Let's just say Read+2nd is equal to Kassian for the sake of the discussion here. That leaves Couturier+Coburn+11th overall for Edler? Seriously?
Cause we don't want to lose a #1D man, look at the price the Flyers paid for a 3rd pairing puck moving D man, Edler is a #1 puck moving D man, something we need, Kassian is a mean nasty power forward who came on in the playoffs and when he played in the top 6 didn't look out of place, Kassian and Edler are needed in Vancouver.

Read is a soon to be UFA and would rather have Kassian and all his potential over Read and a 2nd


Edler is our only puck moving D we need him and to down grade from Edler to Coburn doesn't make sense to bring in a fix for the 3rd line center, not that that Edler value is unfair it just doesn't solve anything for Vancouver, if we were selling Edler off I would think its over payment for the Flyers but for right now we really can't afford to move Edler as we don't have a replacement and puck moving D cost a lot these days and Edlers contract is wicked good.

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Old
06-18-2013, 06:34 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
you are right sir. Voracek >>>>>>>>>> Edler
What a joke! In what world is a top 6 winger worth more than a #1 puck moving D? What a joke of a thing to say, Edler >> Voracek. Voracek is a nice player and would love to have him but not at the cost of Edler...

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Old
06-18-2013, 06:42 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
We wouldn't be trading our 1st in this deal. Because of age and contracts, Coots value is close to that of Edler. Read is more skilled than Kassian but again because of contracts call them about even. Our 2nd this year (41st in a deep draft) should be more than enough to balance things. No need for philly to include Coburn AND our 1st.

However, with us just signing Streit, I can't see any reason Philly considers trading Coots for another PMD who is questionable in his own zone.
Couturier values is no where near that of Edler, how much you over rate a 3rd line center who is great at shutting down players is ridiculous, Edler is a proven #1 D man with a strong two way game very good defensively and a great puck mover, he also brings size and hits like a truck, he can also handle bigger players and for this reason and in our new division we need all what Edler brings, we sure could use Couturier but he's not worth close to Edler this is just laughable that you think a 3rd line shut down center with potential is worth a proven #1D, I would've loved to try and convince people that Malhotra = the value of a top pairing D man, cause that's where Couturier is now and many pro scouts doubt his offense will translate to the NHL given his foot speed.

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Old
06-18-2013, 07:29 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Having a hard time seeing how Vancouver fans are turning this down. It's atrocious for the Flyers.

Let's just say Read+2nd is equal to Kassian for the sake of the discussion here. That leaves Couturier+Coburn+11th overall for Edler? Seriously?
I'd bet most Canucks fans are all over this deal.

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Old
06-18-2013, 07:51 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZKass The Bass View Post
No from Vancouver
What are you on?
Just curious Van does that deal a million times and the flyers answer the phone and laugh, and then call back and ask for the sedins, kesler, edler, and Schneider for our 7th round pick

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Old
06-18-2013, 08:21 PM
  #43
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devonator View Post
A big no from the Flyers...Kassian is next to worthless and you are not getting that much for Elder...no thanks!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I couldn't exactly make it a perfect comparison.

Bieksa > Coburn
24th < 11th
Hansen = Read
Tanev < Couturier
Edler > Voracek
Kassian = Laughton
Kassian > Laughton

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Old
06-18-2013, 08:24 PM
  #44
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
LolIRL, aside from the Bolded I would bet money that there are some fans that would argue Coburn is better then Bieksa. And the < next to Couturier should probably be a <<<<<<<<<<
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Danglefest View Post
Why does Matt Read get no credit from any fanbase?? Is it because he wasn't Drafted and come into the NHL as a prolific prospect on Hockey's Future TOP 50?

I mean what the Hell people the kid has proven he can play at a pretty High level and can make an impact I jut don't get it, i would take him on Boston any day of the week If he is being given away like in these proposals lately
Was just about to say the same to PALE PWNR about Tanev.

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Old
06-18-2013, 11:22 PM
  #45
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So this turned into a pissing match pretty quick.

As for the OP, we've been asking for Couts and the 11th overall for Edler because we don't want to trade him per se, but we might have a spare defender and his return would trump that of anyone else we can move.

Coburn, Read and a 2nd (1st?) is an overpayment for Philly though. We don't want to move him, we need him to break out while he is still signed cheaply, but that doesn't mean other fan bases value him the same way. They didn't move their top prospect of the last 10 years (sorry to Schneider and Edler fans out there), so they don't see him at the same value.

As it stands, Kassian for Read+ (probably a mid round pick, a 4th or 5th) is about right for what each has proven. So basically...let's not trade him.

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Old
06-18-2013, 11:34 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
So this turned into a pissing match pretty quick.

As for the OP, we've been asking for Couts and the 11th overall for Edler because we don't want to trade him per se, but we might have a spare defender and his return would trump that of anyone else we can move.

Coburn, Read and a 2nd (1st?) is an overpayment for Philly though. We don't want to move him, we need him to break out while he is still signed cheaply, but that doesn't mean other fan bases value him the same way. They didn't move their top prospect of the last 10 years (sorry to Schneider and Edler fans out there), so they don't see him at the same value.

As it stands, Kassian for Read+ (probably a mid round pick, a 4th or 5th) is about right for what each has proven. So basically...let's not trade him.



REALLY??? What exactly has Kassian proven thus far??? That he can score a whopping 21 points in 2 seasons??? Yes I know that it was basically equal to one full season but seriously??? Read has actually PROVEN to be a top 6 scoring forward in the NHL in just his 2nd season. If ANYTHING it would be Kassian + for Read and not the other way around.

Also, if Vanc fans are going to continue to call Edler a #1 dman then we Philly fans are going to call Couturier a #2 center. Edler ISN'T a #1 dman, he's PMD #2 dman, NOT a true #1, he's just not that good. Hell your own fan base has said that he doesn't hit very much anymore because of the toll it has taken on his body and now he's looking at self preservation (not a bad thing TBO, he's too valuable offensively to lose him for banging bodies). Is Edler a to pairing dman, hell yeah, but he's NOT a true #1 dman (again, one of your own fans said in this thread that he needs to "develop" to reach his full potential and become the #1 dman he could be).

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Old
06-18-2013, 11:39 PM
  #47
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Wow you guys are right, the greater/less than symbols really cleared this up. Make the move Holmgren!

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Old
06-18-2013, 11:43 PM
  #48
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What an atrocious deal for Philly. Can't believe any Vancouver fan would turn it down let alone several. Edler's the best piece in the deal but damn are you guys over valuing him. He's best known for his offensive ability but, thus far based on his career stats, he's no better or barely better then Kimmo Timonen offensively. A 40 to 45 point d-man (I'm aware he had one 49 point season) is good but it's not exactly amazing and Edler certainly isn't renown for his defensive abilities more-so then his offensive abilities. He's a well-rounded d-man and he can contribute offensively but I don't see how he's any better then Kimmo Timonen assuming old age doesn't kill Kimmo next season.

Even assuming Couturier+Coburn is around Edler's value (which I think is slight overpayment considering Coburn can bring everything and more Edler does defensively) that leaves Read+11th overall+2nd or 1st round pick for Kassian...Kassian. A 22 year old with a career high of 11 points thus far. Someone said he has no value and while that's not true it's not completely off base. A 22 year old with barely a season's worth of cumulative games played and a career high of 11 points isn't exactly worth much and it's not like he's got a lot of hype going for him.

Kassian is nowhere near worth anything in that trade proposal except for maybe the 2nd round pick. Which leaves Edler for Coburn, Couturier, Read, and the 11th overall pick. I mean, how in the bloody hell can you say no to that if you're Vancouver?

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Old
06-18-2013, 11:45 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post





Kassian > Laughton
more like Kassian ? Laughton

kassian has virtually nothing to back up that claim other than the fact that he's played more games in the NHL. He's been pretty underwhelming in the NHL so far, and it's really hard to make that assessment considering Laughton has only played 5 NHL games and is 4 years younger.

by your logic, you could also say Kassian > Drouin

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Old
06-18-2013, 11:46 PM
  #50
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So this turned into a pissing match pretty quick.

As for the OP, we've been asking for Couts and the 11th overall for Edler because we don't want to trade him per se, but we might have a spare defender and his return would trump that of anyone else we can move.

Coburn, Read and a 2nd (1st?) is an overpayment for Philly though. We don't want to move him, we need him to break out while he is still signed cheaply, but that doesn't mean other fan bases value him the same way. They didn't move their top prospect of the last 10 years (sorry to Schneider and Edler fans out there), so they don't see him at the same value.

As it stands, Kassian for Read+ (probably a mid round pick, a 4th or 5th) is about right for what each has proven. So basically...let's not trade him.
As the other guy said how the hell has Kassian proven more then Read (which is what you're suggesting if you're saying we'd actually have to add to Read to get Kassian)? Kassian is 22 with 83 career games played and 21 points (with over half those points coming in one season). Read, albeit five years older, still barely has more NHL games in then Kassian does and has already proven he can be a versatile, cheap 25 goal, 50 point type of player at his best. I'd say that Kassian's potential is around where Read is, but that's his potential and you're actually saying he's proven more then Read.

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