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What exactly does Messier currently do for the organization?

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06-19-2013, 05:10 AM
  #51
TheRightWay
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Originally Posted by Greg02 View Post
There's Hartford, which is right by NY. There's the associate head coach position which people here have been saying he doesn't want.

The difference between Selanne/Alfredsson is they paid their dues. It's more akin to a draft pick saying they'll only play for certain teams with certain minutes. Not that that's a great comparison either, but it's closer.
The Hartford job is currently occupied by Gernander. Nonetheless, exactly which reporter has claimed that Messier wouldn't be willing to take the Wolfpack job? Anyone?

Your comparison is absolutely awful. The draft process implies that you're basically at the fate (at least for a while) of the team that selects you. It's an accepted processs. Messier wasn't drafted to be head coach of the Oilers but is holding out and forcing a move to NY. Messier is a free agent. Just as a free agent is more than within his rights to say he's only willing to play for certain teams.

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06-19-2013, 08:48 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I'm upset at Sather and Dolan for allowing Messier to get to this point with some of the fanbase. Its a little bit of everyone.
No kidding. Pretty scary to see some people in an otherwise knowledgeable fan base falling to their knees to protect this false prophet.

They created a position for Messier to simply have his name and presence within the organization to grab the casual fans and 1994 babes for additional revenues. That's all, folks.

He has no business or boardroom acumen at all. At this point, he's becoming a detriment to the franchise.

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06-19-2013, 08:51 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
No kidding. Pretty scary to see some people in an otherwise knowledgeable fan base falling to their knees to protect this false prophet.

They created a position for Messier to simply have his name and presence within the organization to grab the casual fans and 1994 babes for additional revenues. That's all, folks.

He has no business or boardroom acumen at all. At this point, he's becoming a detriment to the franchise.
To be fair, this isn't an entirely important skillset for someone on the player personnel side of hockey operations.

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06-19-2013, 09:17 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
No kidding. Pretty scary to see some people in an otherwise knowledgeable fan base falling to their knees to protect this false prophet.

They created a position for Messier to simply have his name and presence within the organization to grab the casual fans and 1994 babes for additional revenues. That's all, folks.

He has no business or boardroom acumen at all. At this point, he's becoming a detriment to the franchise.
Yeah, I can't count the number of people I know who bought tickets to games once they found out that Mark Messier was employed as a special assistant to Glen Sather...

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06-19-2013, 10:12 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post

They created a position for Messier to simply have his name and presence within the organization to grab the casual fans and 1994 babes for additional revenues. That's all, folks.

He has no business or boardroom acumen at all. At this point, he's becoming a detriment to the franchise.
LOL what do you base such a crazy opinion on? Are you in the boardroom with these guys? If so please do share, otherwise you're just making this nonsense up.


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06-19-2013, 10:15 AM
  #56
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I'm thinking that no one on here has any idea of what skills Mark Messier has as an exec.

Not the good, not the bad. Just a bunch of worthless made up nonsense based on weird biases against a guy who delivered the cup.

Go figure...

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06-19-2013, 10:15 AM
  #57
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Let us not forget that Messier isn't a spring chicken anymore. He is 53 years old. Most of those guys retired in there mid to late 30's. Than start there coaching/GM career years earlier & almost immediately after they retire. Mainly because they do need the pay check coming in, but also because the window is a slim one to get their foot in the door.

Messier made a conseince decsion to retire offically after the lockouy & stayed away from the game because he wanted to be a family man & Father to his new born son at the time. You can't fault a guy for wanting that, oviously money wasn't an issue & most liley isn't a driving factor in any decsions Messier makes.

However even for former great players time is still their enemy. Since Messier played until he was 44, & than basically took almost 5 years off from the game he stuned his growth & has limited his options. Coaching the ECHL, AHL or KHL for 2-3 years minimum put's him almost in his late 50's. That's very late in life to be a rookie head coach in the NHL.

Messier needs to decide NOW what he wan't to do with the next 15-20 years of his hockey life. If he decides that he does what to coach he is going to have to leave NY & start out in a small cold climate market that no one can find on a map & work his way up.

If he want's to be a GM he may have to leave NY to do that as well. Steve Yzermen did it & he is as beloved in Detroit as Messier is in NY. No one would look down on Messier or think less of him if he left NY to pursue an oppurtunity.

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06-19-2013, 10:43 AM
  #58
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I am surprized people do not know what Messier job is. He is Assistant to GM. That means he does something that GM delegates to him. Particularly he does Public Relation function of GM, something Sather is not very good at.

Messier does very little for Hockey Operations, something this Board cares about, but that doesn mean he does nothing. Public Relations is an important aspect of business. Fans still are buying his jersey. His presence at MSG carries that value.

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06-19-2013, 10:44 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
Let us not forget that Messier isn't a spring chicken anymore. He is 53 years old. Most of those guys retired in there mid to late 30's. Than start there coaching/GM career years earlier & almost immediately after they retire. Mainly because they do need the pay check coming in, but also because the window is a slim one to get their foot in the door.

Messier made a conseince decsion to retire offically after the lockouy & stayed away from the game because he wanted to be a family man & Father to his new born son at the time. You can't fault a guy for wanting that, oviously money wasn't an issue & most liley isn't a driving factor in any decsions Messier makes.

However even for former great players time is still their enemy. Since Messier played until he was 44, & than basically took almost 5 years off from the game he stuned his growth & has limited his options. Coaching the ECHL, AHL or KHL for 2-3 years minimum put's him almost in his late 50's. That's very late in life to be a rookie head coach in the NHL.

Messier needs to decide NOW what he wan't to do with the next 15-20 years of his hockey life. If he decides that he does what to coach he is going to have to leave NY & start out in a small cold climate market that no one can find on a map & work his way up.

If he want's to be a GM he may have to leave NY to do that as well. Steve Yzermen did it & he is as beloved in Detroit as Messier is in NY. No one would look down on Messier or think less of him if he left NY to pursue an oppurtunity.

I totally agree. I do think the end game here is Mark Messier becoming the next GM when Sather is ready to retire.

In many ways it's Messier who was Sathers greatest project as a coach back in the EDM days. Gretzky was a freak of nature. Messier was developed.

I suspect Sather will develop him into the next GM and then retire.

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06-19-2013, 10:57 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I am surprized people do not know what Messier job is. He is Assistant to GM. That means he does something that GM delegates to him. Particularly he does Public Relation function of GM, something Sather is not very good at.
That really clears it up.

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06-19-2013, 10:59 AM
  #61
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06-19-2013, 11:20 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
If he want's to be a GM he may have to leave NY to do that as well. Steve Yzermen did it & he is as beloved in Detroit as Messier is in NY. No one would look down on Messier or think less of him if he left NY to pursue an oppurtunity.
No one will hire him based on the fact that he was even a better player than SY. Rangers organization is not respected in NHL. It is not so much Sather's fault. Incompetent ownership is the main reason.

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06-19-2013, 01:22 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
No one will hire him based on the fact that he was even a better player than SY. Rangers organization is not respected in NHL. It is not so much Sather's fault. Incompetent ownership is the main reason.
How is the ownership incompetent.

Jim Dolan provides a huge budget, hires one of the most experienced old boys to run the team and lets it ride.

Players have the best facilities in the league, best travel... first class all the way.

He doesnt meddle, might not even watch the games.

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06-19-2013, 01:26 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
No one will hire him based on the fact that he was even a better player than SY. Rangers organization is not respected in NHL. It is not so much Sather's fault. Incompetent ownership is the main reason.

Sather is running the franchise. He is absolutely respected by the other GMs and execs around the league.

Would we rather have a stooge like Snow who's owner meddles in the team because of business and whims.

That might work for the Yankees of old, but I dont think thats a great mix in hockey...

I like that Jim Dolan is more focused on Basketball then hockey. I don't really see how that hurts the Rangers, as long as the budget is there.

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06-19-2013, 01:27 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by I Am Chariot View Post
How is the ownership incompetent.

Jim Dolan provides a huge budget, hires one of the most experienced old boys to run the team and lets it ride.

Players have the best facilities in the league, best travel... first class all the way.

He doesnt meddle, might not even watch the games.

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The answer to incompetent is in bold above.

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06-19-2013, 01:28 PM
  #66
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[QUOTE=I Am Chariot;67685853]I totally agree. I do think the end game here is Mark Messier becoming the next GM when Sather is ready to retire.

In many ways it's Messier who was Sathers greatest project as a coach back in the EDM days. Gretzky was a freak of nature. Messier was developed.

I suspect Sather will develop him into the next GM and then retire.[/QUOTE]

And that will just add to the collection of dark days in Ranger history.

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06-19-2013, 02:47 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by I Am Chariot View Post
Sather is running the franchise. He is absolutely respected by the other GMs and execs around the league.

Would we rather have a stooge like Snow who's owner meddles in the team because of business and whims.
Slats is repected, while Rangers not so much. Brining Isles to discussion is not a good move, thier owner even worse. I don't think Doug Weight will be offered front office position any time soon.
Messier doesn't need to work. That is why he didn't want to go to Edmonton. Why? To repeat Gretz experience with team that needs tons of work? This is the job for those who failed to make it to NHL, or even in NHL. Young Sather comes to mind.

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06-19-2013, 07:07 PM
  #68
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Sather is 100% respected in this leauge. Anyone who thinks he isn't hasn't been paying much attention. You don't pull the trades off that Sather has in his GM career without being highly respected, almost Pontiff like.

There was an article a couple of years ago, I think it was out of Minnesota about Sather's relationship with other GM's & how likable & respected he is leauge wide.

If Messier is going to be a GM here or anywhere else Messier learning from Slats is one of the best things that could ever happen to him. Stevie Y learned from Holland & Bowman to a certain extent, he is doing just find in Tampa bay. I suspect Messier who is a very smart man, knows the game of hockey inside & out, knows how to spo & develop talented players would do just as well. The question is does he start in one of the top 5 NHL markets or does he go to a smaller market to hone his skills set.

A GM can be a GM well into there 70's as we have alreadly seen it does happen.

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06-19-2013, 08:23 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by I Am Chariot View Post
I'm thinking that no one on here has any idea of what skills Mark Messier has as an exec.

Not the good, not the bad. Just a bunch of worthless made up nonsense based on weird biases against a guy who delivered the cup.

Go figure...
Your reaction is exactly why Messier is with the organization. Some people still believe the urban legends of Messier 'guaranteeing' the win and leading the team to a Cup.

The more power this guy gets in the organization, the closer this team will be to the country club mentality, yet again. He did it in Edmonton, Vancouver and yes, with the Rangers locker room, too.

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06-20-2013, 06:16 AM
  #70
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Mark Messier’s future with the Rangers’ organization remains in doubt after being passed over in favor of Alain Vigneault to succeed John Tortorella behind the bench.

“I don’t really know what Mark is going to do,” general manager Glen Sather told The Post last night. “He was very disappointed when I called to tell him that we were going to hire Alain.

“He said he wanted to take a few days and would call me, but we haven’t spoken since.”

Messier, who is absent substantive coaching experience and therefore shouldn’t interpret the hiring of Vigneault as a snub, has spent the last four seasons as a special assistant to Sather.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers

Messier is pouting as Neil Smith predicted. He has zero experience. Messier was talking to the media on Friday in Chicago discussing the coaching job while Vigneault was meeting with the Rangers ownership in Manhattan.

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06-20-2013, 11:47 AM
  #71
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Meanwhile, Sather confirmed Rick Nash had indeed suffered a concussion when his head was slammed into the glass by Milan Lucic in Boston on Feb. 12 in the club’s 12th game of the regular season.

“That’s when a lot of the injuries started,” Sather said. “When Lucic rammed Nash from behind and gave him a concussion.”
I'm shocked that they cleared Nash to play fairly quickly after that hit. I think we all suspected he had a concussion. Nash still played very well for us despite the injury. Same with Cally & Hags.

In regards to Messier. I think this will be a wakeup call for him. He really shouldn't be so disapointed in the direction Sather went in. Now is not the time for Messier to be coaching the Rangers. Messier may not reliaze it, but Sather did him a HUGE favor by not hireing him to coach this team.

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06-20-2013, 04:34 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
Your reaction is exactly why Messier is with the organization. Some people still believe the urban legends of Messier 'guaranteeing' the win and leading the team to a Cup.

The more power this guy gets in the organization, the closer this team will be to the country club mentality, yet again. He did it in Edmonton, Vancouver and yes, with the Rangers locker room, too.
My reaction is.. why judge?


He really did lead the team to the cup. It was really him out there on the ice. Infact, he won SIX Stanley Cups. Came close a few more times along the way

And that is awesome, and has nothing to do with his skills, or lack of skills as an executive.

It's not good, nor bad. It's the unknown. But if Sather feels he's helpful to the team in some capacity. That's great with me.

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06-20-2013, 04:37 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...ontent=Rangers

Messier is pouting as Neil Smith predicted. He has zero experience. Messier was talking to the media on Friday in Chicago discussing the coaching job while Vigneault was meeting with the Rangers ownership in Manhattan.

For all we know Sather has offered to set Messier up with endless coaching jobs and he resisted and this Sather now laying the ultimate lesson. I love you, but you have to earn the job!

AV is the right guy for right now...

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06-20-2013, 04:41 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by I Am Chariot View Post
I'm thinking that no one on here has any idea of what skills Mark Messier has as an exec.

Not the good, not the bad. Just a bunch of worthless made up nonsense based on weird biases against a guy who delivered the cup.

Go figure...
Amen, I was against the hiring as coach but I think we need to step back and not type while mad. Mess is not the enemy, it seems negativity towards him is snowballing.

I don't want him as gm though or I will board the haterbus.

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06-20-2013, 05:30 PM
  #75
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The cup 20 years ago shouldn't have anything to do with this here and now. There are tons of other multi-cup winners who wouldn't do well in any other role. That's not to say the skills and knowledge he has that made him who he is should be left out of the conversation but merely bringing up the cup from 20 years ago is annoying.

What Glen said about everyone having an ego applies here to. He doesn't get that much informal camera time and I wasn't around 20 years ago so I don't know what his attitude is like but the biggest problem everyone here seems to have is with his attitude and this "sense" of entitlement he exudes.

A guy in his position should work damn hard at whatever opening is available within the organization. Whether it's putting in more miles or hours working with younger talent, understanding prospect scouting, or putting in more time with the farm team/players. being Mark Messier opens doors in that you are given the power try out anything you want other than politically complicated stuff. If you want to assistant coach at the AHL level, you get that. If you want to scout, you get that. If you want to coach at the AHL level when the HC position opens up, you get that. If you want to be the "special assistant" to Glen Sathers when Gorton is playing a 1B role in general managing, you can do that too.

To get the top prize of being a headcoach of an NHL team, no less the Rangers or being the GM of an NHL team, again, no less the Rangers, you can't Mark Messier your way into that.

He's had a few years with the team and frankly, there are about 20 things he could have done to become a bigger part of the day to day of this franchise and to work his way toward being recognized as a guy that's ready for more responsibilities and become a better choice over sound top NHL coaches like AV and a competent "GM" in Gorton.

That's the issue I think most people are trying to articulate. He sat back and did not much, turned down a job in EDM, now wants a job with NYR as HC or future GM yet he hasn't done much to deserve those positions and he's being ungrateful about his position and opportunities (i.e. his "I need a few days off, ttyl, not going to call back" deal)

He needs a few days why? Did he ever think he's going to get the job? If he did, that's the problem in and of itself. If he didn't, is he needing time away from his job because he's not satisfied with being where he is and not a HC or GM, hmmm?

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