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The Rumors and Speculation Thread #6

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Old
06-19-2013, 11:22 AM
  #601
GoneFullHextall
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I like Ryan but not at the cost of giving up the 11th overall. if that is Anaheim's stance then move on and look eslewhere for a scoring winger and wait until Ryan becomes a UFA and try and grab him then.
I disagree on Ryan's physical game being "way better" then JVR. both are scoring wingers who are very streaky with at very, very best are average defensively. When they arent scoring you will sometimes wonder if they are on the ice.

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06-19-2013, 11:23 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Ryan has a way better scoring prowess than JVR though. Also, Ryan I find is more physical than JVR as well. Plus, the moves and hands that Ryan have are better than JVR's as well.
So why did JVR score 18 goals this year compared to 11 for Ryan?

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06-19-2013, 11:24 AM
  #603
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Until a flyers trade goes down that shows impatience I'm going to assume they know they need young players that grow with the team. That's why we signed streit to that horrid contract instead of trading couts. Vorceck may be one of the most valuable fwds in the league as a top 10 scorer making less than 5 a year. These are all just rumors that suggest we are exploring options but not going to assume homer is an idiot for trading x for x unless it happens.

The biggest thing that needs to happen is get rid of bryz. I think the flyers don't want to pressue mason right now so they figure keep bryz as the number one in name so mason doesn't ***** out under pressue. Then buy bryz out next year and use that money for UFA and resigning.

I also think bernier should be had for read and not much more. If the kings want more they won't get it.

Ryan will be here in a few years at prob the perfect time when our players are starting to peak and hopefully have a stud drafted D up. Not worth it right now. Put schenn on Gs wing

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06-19-2013, 11:26 AM
  #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
So why did JVR score 18 goals this year compared to 11 for Ryan?
Two less games played, plus really it's his first down season. Before this season, he had 4 straight seasons of 31+ goals and 57+ points.

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06-19-2013, 11:27 AM
  #605
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I personally don't consider Bernier unproven nor, to some extent Mason. Two young goaltenders of this caliber platooned in play until one comes to the forefront gives you quality plus an asset. I can't believe both would have a bad 2013-14 season together.

Couturier is not nor will he ever be a no 1 center, possibly a number 2 at his best- look around at the better teams and their number 1s' and he'll never get to that stage. He might end up being a slightly bigger Mike Richards but I don't think he has the same heart as Richards. However, given his first year play, not so much the points but what he seems to bring to the ice, I can understand the hesitancy of everyone to trade him but, with the Flyers, who knows what's possible.

Matt Read is likely more unproven than Bernier. He's smaller than Mike Richards, didn't come up thru the major junior ranks but, point wise, did have a decent first full season and shortened second season with the Flyers. The issue for the Kings is where to play him. However, Read (or maybe Couturier) for Bernier may be an excellent trade for both teams so don't be surprised.......
This is just ridiculous. Who cares how these guys made it to the NHL? I know that Read has put together two very solid seasons at the NHL level, while Bernier has only started a handful of games. You could argue that Bernier has the higher upside because he's younger and might have more natural talent, but he's not more proven. Read has proven that he can be a 45-55 point complimentary winger who can play in just about any role asked of a forward.

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06-19-2013, 11:29 AM
  #606
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Bernier is definitely unproven. Trading Couts for him would be a terrible move

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06-19-2013, 11:30 AM
  #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
So why did JVR score 18 goals this year compared to 11 for Ryan?
Why would one shortened season take away from the rest of their careers?

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06-19-2013, 11:31 AM
  #608
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I really would like to keep that 11th pick and also keep Coburn to play with Streit. Coburn always has his ups and downs in the regular season but come playoff time he is always one of our better d-men. There should be some good players being bought out this off season that you can hopefully get at a lower price. Ryan you can wait for, unless it doesn't take much to get him now. Leino on a cheap 1 year deal would be an option and then you could afford to keep Bryz for another season. Then again I don't see the point on paying a goalie tons of money when you are playing in an offensive system where the goalie will have no confidence half the season.

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06-19-2013, 11:34 AM
  #609
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Because for all we know Ryan may have already peaked and JVR might have finally turned the corner. Waiting for Ryan to hit free agency and keeping our pick is a much better idea than trading for him now.

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Old
06-19-2013, 11:38 AM
  #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Because for all we know Ryan may have already peaked and JVR might have finally turned the corner. Waiting for Ryan to hit free agency and keeping our pick is a much better idea than trading for him now.
That assumes that Anaheim pulls a Holmgren and let's an asset just walk for nothing..

Just sayin' although I don't want to jump the gun on him either

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06-19-2013, 11:39 AM
  #611
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I really wish Bobby Ryan wasn't from Cherry Hill.

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06-19-2013, 11:40 AM
  #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Because for all we know Ryan may have already peaked and JVR might have finally turned the corner. Waiting for Ryan to hit free agency and keeping our pick is a much better idea than trading for him now.
Waiting on Ryan might be a better idea, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have more a scoring touch than JvR. Looking at their careers, there really isn't much of an argument you could make to suggest that JvR is has a higher scoring prowess or however you want to phrase it. Bobby Ryan has never scored less than 31 goals in four full seasons, and was on pace for around 20 this year. JvR has never scored more than 21 in two full seasons, was on pace for about the same in an injury shortened season, and was on pace for around 35 this year.

By saying JvR is better offensively, which is presumably what you are saying, you are telling me that the four full seasons are not representative of Ryan's abilities because he overperformed, and the first three seasons are not the representative of JvR's abilities because he underperformed, and that this shortened season is the true measure of their abilities. That seems a little far fetched. Possible, of course because this really is not provable in any real way (other than to revisit this question in a couple years). But not really a solid foundation to make an argument.

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06-19-2013, 11:41 AM
  #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
That assumes that Anaheim pulls a Holmgren and let's an asset just walk for nothing..

Just sayin' although I don't want to jump the gun on him either
Are you suggesting that Holmgren is the only (or at least most frequent) GM that has UFAs leave the team?

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06-19-2013, 11:45 AM
  #614
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Are you suggesting that Holmgren is the only (or at least most frequent) GM that has UFAs leave the team?
No just that he's allowed it..which IMO is never good.

Caveat: (unless they are totally worthless players and even then I'd try and get something)

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06-19-2013, 11:45 AM
  #615
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I just agree with Meltzer that going forward they will be pretty similar players. I don't think Ryan has clearly better moves and hands because JVR is pretty good in that department.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQJWCiNIdGc

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Old
06-19-2013, 11:50 AM
  #616
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
No just that he's allowed it..which IMO is never good.

Caveat: (unless they are totally worthless players and even then I'd try and get something)
Just out curiosity, which players are you talking about? I am not saying there are none, but aside from Nodl, Metroplit, and Vaananen (who was on an expiring contract and probably wasn't going to be re-signed) being claimed on waivers, none come to mind.

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06-19-2013, 11:51 AM
  #617
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I think meltzers comment is being taken out of context. Bobby Ryan is clearly the better player. His hockey sense, as well as his vision on the ice and production in general has been leaps and bounds better than JVR has been so far in his career. Ryan had a down year while JVR had a slightly up year, but that doesn't take away the fact that if you discount this season as being a fallacy which it likely was in terms if production for some players, Ryan is the better and more dynamic player by a large margin. Plus the fact that he's a hometown boy would likely exclude him from the same criticism that carter and JVR got

Again, I would love Ryan on this team, but not at the expense of what it would take to get him (our 1st+ or Couturier+).

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06-19-2013, 11:54 AM
  #618
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I will say though, considering we need defense, forwards would be what we'd give up to get Ryan. I know Couts will be something special as a two-way center, but to get a proven goal scorer for him is tempting.

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06-19-2013, 12:19 PM
  #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
I will say though, considering we need defense, forwards would be what we'd give up to get Ryan. I know Couts will be something special as a two-way center, but to get a proven goal scorer for him is tempting.
This is my rationale as well. I'd almost rather trade couturier for Ryan than the 11th overall If prompted to make a choice, and hope we can nab a great future defenseman with the pick.

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06-19-2013, 12:20 PM
  #620
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OR

we can just wait for 2 years when he'll sign with us and give up nothing

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06-19-2013, 12:27 PM
  #621
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OR

we can just wait for 2 years when he'll sign with us and give up nothing
Stop preaching patience...

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06-19-2013, 12:34 PM
  #622
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Just out curiosity, which players are you talking about? I am not saying there are none, but aside from Nodl, Metroplit, and Vaananen (who was on an expiring contract and probably wasn't going to be re-signed) being claimed on waivers, none come to mind.
I'm thinking Carle right now. I don't like how we just let him walk for nothing. We should have tried to trade him for something if they didn't think they were going to sign him. However, public statements by Holmgren lead me to believe that they thought they would sign him and at a discount but at their own convenience since they courted Parise and Suter first. Then Carle fell into the open market while those two dithered and played the Flyers for fools. Subsequently, TB offered Carle an ill advised contract that the Flyers rightfully didn't match but wouldn't have had to have done so if they either attempted to sign Carle during the season when they had enough tagging space or afterwards during the offseason instead of pursuing a pipe dream as Meltzer characterized the attempt. It was a gross miscalc considering all the assets involved in acquiring Carle in the first place.....to come out with nothing in the end other than the argument of addition by subtraction by the haters is very disconcerting...

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06-19-2013, 12:39 PM
  #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
OR

we can just wait for 2 years when he'll sign with us and give up nothing
Easier said that done. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. It seems like it would be a no-brainer for him to sign here...until Team X offers him two million more a year and an extra year. I'm not saying bet the farm on the guy, but I don't think it is as clear cut as many make it out to be here that he will be a Flyers when is a UFA.

Every year players sign in places that are not their hometown or were not their favorite teams growing up. I'm sure plenty of french Canadiens grew up dreaming of playing for MTL and if asked in an interview would say that would love to play there. That doesn't mean they are going to sign in MTL.

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06-19-2013, 12:43 PM
  #624
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I have zero interest in shaking up the team for the 3rd offseason in a row to bring in Ryan. Enough is enough. Build and develop what we have.

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06-19-2013, 12:49 PM
  #625
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Ryan's nice, but if we wanted him we should've just kept JVR.

I would've liked to spend less to acquire Luke Schenn too.

Ah well, it is what it is.

Let's just wait to see if Ryan hits free agency.

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