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Passing...learned skill or natural talent?

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Old
06-19-2013, 10:51 AM
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Unstable
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Passing...learned skill or natural talent?

So I've been watching the playoffs and Jagr being amazing and thinking about the Flyer's offensive woes this year. (Aside: I think Jagr has really benefited from the short season, and I'm happy for him, but I don't want to see him brought back for an 82 game campaign unless it's for really cheap.)

By offensive woes, I don't mean goals for, I mean carrying the play and the sheer number of passes that bounced over the sticks of Giroux and Voracek and Hartnell. It seems to me that Jagr is just *better* at making those passes that create space than those guys and particularly than his replacement on the line, V.

Duh, future hall of famer.

What I'm wondering is how passing skills are developed...I've never watched the game with an eye for this before, but can guys like G and V be expected to become better at making crisp on the tape passes, or is what we see now what we're going to continue to get?

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06-19-2013, 11:08 AM
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FreshPerspective
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To me situational awareness can't be learned necessarily....it's a natural talent/trait. Oates and Gretzky were great examples. G has elite situational awareness...although this year he was focused on more so yeah he needs a winger to give him space. Jagr and Hartnell did that last year....

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06-19-2013, 12:18 PM
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passing is a learned skill, but vision and awareness are a natural talent

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06-19-2013, 12:27 PM
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Unstable
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That makes sense.

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06-19-2013, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unstable View Post
That makes sense.
To be an elite passer you def need both attributes.

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06-19-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
To be an elite passer you def need both attributes.
yep. coaching does play into it, especially at an early age but somethings you are just born with. like thinking ahead of everyone else. Gretzky, Mario and Orr all had it. They were better then anyone else because they seemed to know what was going to happen before anyone else.

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06-19-2013, 01:12 PM
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It's all learned.

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06-19-2013, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
It's all learned.
I disagree....

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06-19-2013, 01:24 PM
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Having the right biometrics and certain genes certainly helps, but talent is almost entirely familiarity. I know a little about this subject.

That's why well-trained small guy mops the floor with physically gifted big guy who is less trained.

In the NHL-- since it is around ~300 players drawn in from all over the world-- you get the best of both. The right physically built guys with the right DNA coupled with the work ethic and compete level to be insanely talented.

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06-19-2013, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Having the right biometrics and certain genes certainly helps, but talent is almost entirely familiarity. I know a little about this subject.

That's why well-trained small guy mops the floor with physically gifted big guy who is less trained.

In the NHL-- since it is around ~300 players drawn in from all over the world-- you get the best of both. The right physically built guys with the right DNA coupled with the work ethic and compete level to be insanely talented.
I'm not sure I follow you on this all the way...but my mind is a bit fried. I do think with biotech these days a "passing" gene will be isolated and patented and explain all of this

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06-19-2013, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
I'm not sure I follow you on this all the way...but my mind is a bit fried. I do think with biotech these days a "passing" gene will be isolated and patented and explain all of this
In order to isolate it and prove that this or that gene was responsible, they would have to create what is called a "knock out" in the industry, which means that they would have to create a human (unless they have an amazing computer model) or use an animal model (like a mouse-- or possibly a rat whose skeletal structure is closer in the shoulders if you think that is part of the "naturally gifted" argument) -- by flagging those genes with markers and yanking them out of the genetic line.

Unfortunately, some genes are grouped together like hangers and difficult to knock out without pulling out entire bonded sections, with unpredictable results, like unexpected hair loss or blindness or sudden death.

I have no idea what a human "passing" gene knockout would be or look like, but I would imagine it would play and look something like Mike York or possibly Tyler Kennedy.

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Old
06-19-2013, 02:02 PM
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I read a study a while back looking at what made 'genius' (read as 'elite at what they do)... the only correlation they found to those who excelled was generally more practice, every single 'genius' they studied had practiced for a minimum of 10,000 hours.

Ofc natural precursors help this, like fast twitch muscle fibres (but they can be effectively improved by practice), having a great 'eye' (once again though, can be improved by practice), natural muscle/bone density and height etc as well.
This 'natural talent' also means that they are more likely to be spotted at a younger age and focused on more by parents or coaches.


In my experience though, the most important thing for someone to succeed is the mental aspect, as if you don't have it, no matter how talented you are you cannot (or will be very unlikely to) succeed.

Both me (eldest) and the 3rd eldest brother in my family have done (in my case) or seem to be on the right track to doing (in brothers case), very well in our chosen sports, (to a level ofc) as we have dedicated, almost obsessive, personalities that mean we want to practice every day and concentrate 100% when we play.

However, the 2nd eldest brother is far more 'naturally' talented than both of us, he has done well in every sport he has ever played, as he has in school, without trying.

But he no longer plays any sport regularly even though he was playing two years above his age group in rugby, roller hockey and water polo, and was asked to go for national regional trials in field hockey and 110m hurdles. He never had the dedication or willpower and admits as much... I always wish I was born as naturally gifted as him!

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Old
06-19-2013, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
passing is a learned skill, but vision and awareness are a natural talent
Pretty much sums it up, right there.

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