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2013 Offseason Thread Part VI: Buyout Season

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Old
06-19-2013, 02:35 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
like the Pens did? we played Boston better with our "small lineup"
If Dorsett was not in the lineup there would have been no pushback at all. I'm not for stacking the 4th line with Colton Orr and clones. I am for guys like Nystrom, McLeod, Dorsett, Hendricks, Campbell, guys that can play hockey, that can skate, but also be in your face and not back down. Nash is the softest player on the team at 6'4 220. Zuccarello was more physical and was pushing guys back more than Nash.

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06-19-2013, 02:35 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
like the Pens did? we played Boston better with our "small lineup"
I agree.

And since when are we that soft? I see big bodies on the roster. I see guys who play tough. Dorsett, Callahan, Boyle, Asham, McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, Kreider, and even Moore and Stralman bang bodies. Do all of them fight? No. But they don't get bullied. That's a big reason why we added Dorsett because we did lose a little with Prust leaving. McIlrath is waiting in the wings.

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06-19-2013, 02:38 PM
  #203
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I agree.

And since when are we that soft? I see big bodies on the roster. I see guys who play tough. Dorsett, Callahan, Boyle, Asham, McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, Kreider, and even Moore and Stralman bang bodies. Do all of them fight? No. But they don't get bullied. That's a big reason why we added Dorsett because we did lose a little with Prust leaving. McIlrath is waiting in the wings.
what annoys me is guys as big as Nash, Kreider, Boyle, etc, need people to "stand up for them". Nash used to throw big hits and even fight in Columbus. They need to stick up for themselves, not sign guys who do nothing but fight and take dumb penalties and thats all I saw Dorsett do for us. I hope he's better than he's shown.

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06-19-2013, 02:40 PM
  #204
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I agree.

And since when are we that soft? I see big bodies on the roster. I see guys who play tough. Dorsett, Callahan, Boyle, Asham, McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, Kreider, and even Moore and Stralman bang bodies. Do all of them fight? No. But they don't get bullied. That's a big reason why we added Dorsett because we did lose a little with Prust leaving. McIlrath is waiting in the wings.
Callahan is very underrated when it comes to playing tough. He blocks shots, he hits, he can fight, that is what makes him one of the best captains in the league. Which one of our defenseman is physical in front of the net? None of them. We need someone like McIlrath. Boyle is a sad excuse for someone who is bigger than 95 % of the league. Kreider? Really? He plays a tough game? Because he had 2 good hits in the playoffs? Look i'm not saying we need a team of goons, but we need more physical players that can actually play the game.

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06-19-2013, 02:41 PM
  #205
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Callahan is very underrated when it comes to playing tough. He blocks shots, he hits, he can fight, that is what makes him one of the best captains in the league. Which one of our defenseman is physical in front of the net? None of them. We need someone like McIlrath. Boyle is a sad excuse for someone who is bigger than 95 % of the league. Kreider? Really? He plays a tough game? Because he had 2 good hits in the playoffs? Look i'm not saying we need a team of goons, but we need more physical players that can actually play the game.
but again, we played the Bruins better than the almighty Pittsburg Penguins. If the Rangers could even had half a goal more per game, we'd probably still be playing.

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06-19-2013, 02:43 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
like the Pens did? we played Boston better with our "small lineup"
We played better against Boston because we match up better against Boston.

We play very similar styles.

The Rangers have 11 wins against boston in the last 4 seasons.

for the most part I agree with the poster you are quoting.

We are to small up front, more specific our top 6 are to small. OR we play to small up front as Nash doesn't initiate contact as much as you would expect for a big man.

Hagelin, Stepan, Callahan, Brassard, Richards are all small and for the most part (callahan aside) are not overly physical players and as such we tend to lose more puck battles than we win.

The guys I prefer I like to call gamers. Guys that do not wait for the game to come to them. They perfer to go after the game. Callahan is a gamer. Zuccs is a gamer. I believe that Stepan and Hagelin are to passive in their mindset. I know Richards is. Always has been. Nash is also a passive player. Brassard i like. I hope he developes into a gamer here.

I really grew to hate the way the Rangers played the game. frustrated watching them give the puck away and defend over and over again.

I want the Rangers to dictate pace and tempo, not the other way around and for far to long that was the case even during the 11-12 season.

We bent, but never broke.

I don't like bending.

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06-19-2013, 02:44 PM
  #207
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People get so upset when someone says Nash is soft.

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06-19-2013, 02:46 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
We played better against Boston because we match up better against Boston.

We play very similar styles.

The Rangers have 11 wins against boston in the last 4 seasons.

for the most part I agree with the poster you are quoting.

We are to small up front, more specific our top 6 are to small. OR we play to small up front as Nash doesn't initiate contact as much as you would expect for a big man.

Hagelin, Stepan, Callahan, Brassard, Richards are all small and for the most part (callahan aside) are not overly physical players and as such we tend to lose more puck battles than we win.

The guys I prefer I like to call gamers. Guys that do not wait for the game to come to them. They perfer to go after the game. Callahan is a gamer. Zuccs is a gamer. I believe that Stepan and Hagelin are to passive in their mindset. I know Richards is. Always has been. Nash is also a passive player. Brassard i like. I hope he developes into a gamer here.

I really grew to hate the way the Rangers played the game. frustrated watching them give the puck away and defend over and over again.

I want the Rangers to dictate pace and tempo, not the other way around and for far to long that was the case even during the 11-12 season.

We bent, but never broke.

I don't like bending.
I agree we do need a balance.. I just feel some people on here way too overalue toughness and grit. We had that in 2011-12 and we only made the ECF because of Hank and a last second miracle goal by Richards.

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06-19-2013, 02:47 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Josh3217 View Post
People get so upset when someone says Nash is soft.
He's soft as far as what? hitting and fighting? He's very difficult to knock down (when its not from behind Lucic!), He's very good at possessing the puck, and he uses his size to drive to the net very well. If he's "soft" because he dont hit or fight then yes I guess he's soft.

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06-19-2013, 02:49 PM
  #210
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but again, we played the Bruins better than the almighty Pittsburg Penguins. If the Rangers could even had half a goal more per game, we'd probably still be playing.
You can certainly argue that the Bruins have gotten better as the POs have moved along. And at the end of the day it was a 5 game series vs a sweep. Replace MAF/Vokun with Hank and the Pens could still be playing. Who cares. It didn't happen. Inter-series comparisons like that are worthless.

The Rangers lost the Bruins series because they didn't have the puck enough. Part of that can be altered with style of play changes (not giving it up as much, more aggressive in the dzone). Part of that is that the Bruins won almost every physical and board battle. Which is why some are advocating a need to add a little more muscle. The Rangers are fine physically against the VAST majority of the league. Those teams they aren't will have a large upper hand in the postseason when the whistles are put away.

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06-19-2013, 02:50 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I agree.

And since when are we that soft? I see big bodies on the roster. I see guys who play tough. Dorsett, Callahan, Boyle, Asham, McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, Kreider, and even Moore and Stralman bang bodies. Do all of them fight? No. But they don't get bullied. That's a big reason why we added Dorsett because we did lose a little with Prust leaving. McIlrath is waiting in the wings.
The three in bold are tough, physical players.

The rest I would not paint as tough physical guys.

Rather, not the kind of toughness and physicality I would prefer.

Any player that puts their well being at risk over and over again in blocking shots is a tough player.

That's not the toughness I am referring to or looking for.

All three defenceman are still pretty soft in front of the net. The two forwards mentioned not in bold do not initiate contact as often as they should because with their size, that element of their game can be SO effective if they employed it more.

I know the "numbers" show boyle beign a hits leader, but hitting someone with a bag of marshmellows is not going to have the desired effect in the last 10 minutes of a game.

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06-19-2013, 03:06 PM
  #212
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Lets hope we can snag Eberle for DZ and probably a small +. He is clutch as hell, and provides a RH shot for our PP. Sign a guy like Nystrom and lets see what we have.

Kreider-Brassard-Eberle
Nash-Stepan-Callahan
Hagelin-Lindberg-Fast
Nystrom-Boyle-Dorsett

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
Moore-McIlrath/Vet D-man (Zidlicky)

In a year from now, we'll see McIlrath replace Zidlicky, and perhaps have CT making some noise. I think Fast will replace Cally as the 2nd line RW.

Our one hole will be a top-flight RD. Girardi is a fantastic d-man, but we need somebody with offensive ability. We need to upgrade on Stralman eventually.

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06-19-2013, 03:08 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Matt4776 View Post
Lets hope we can snag Eberle for DZ and probably a small +. He is clutch as hell, and provides a RH shot for our PP. Sign a guy like Nystrom and lets see what we have.

Kreider-Brassard-Eberle
Nash-Stepan-Callahan
Hagelin-Lindberg-Fast
Nystrom-Boyle-Dorsett

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
Moore-McIlrath/Vet D-man (Zidlicky)

In a year from now, we'll see McIlrath replace Zidlicky, and perhaps have CT making some noise. I think Fast will replace Cally as the 2nd line RW.

Our one hole will be a top-flight RD. Girardi is a fantastic d-man, but we need somebody with offensive ability. We need to upgrade on Stralman eventually.
Eberle is signed through 2019 at 6m per year!

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06-19-2013, 03:10 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Matt4776 View Post
Lets hope we can snag Eberle for DZ and probably a small +. He is clutch as hell, and provides a RH shot for our PP. Sign a guy like Nystrom and lets see what we have.

Kreider-Brassard-Eberle
Nash-Stepan-Callahan
Hagelin-Lindberg-Fast
Nystrom-Boyle-Dorsett

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
Moore-McIlrath/Vet D-man (Zidlicky)

In a year from now, we'll see McIlrath replace Zidlicky, and perhaps have CT making some noise. I think Fast will replace Cally as the 2nd line RW.

Our one hole will be a top-flight RD. Girardi is a fantastic d-man, but we need somebody with offensive ability. We need to upgrade on Stralman eventually.
LOL at that pipedream of a lineup.

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06-19-2013, 03:17 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Eberle is signed through 2019 at 6m per year!
Oh the horror of a 23 year old average .8 PPG and averages about 30 goals per 82 games signed to a 6m a year deal.

These are the people that deserve big deals. No where to go but up. Clutch performer.

I'll take Eberle @ 6M over Nash, who is soft, six years older, a one trick pony, and the anti-clutch at 7.8M any day.

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06-19-2013, 03:22 PM
  #216
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Oh the horror of a 23 year old average .8 PPG and averages about 30 goals per 82 games signed to a 6m a year deal.

These are the people that deserve big deals. No where to go but up. Clutch performer.

I'll take Eberle @ 6M over Nash, who is soft, six years older, a one trick pony, and the anti-clutch at 7.8M any day.
They're both soft, one-dimensional players, but I guess I'd rather have Eberle because of age and cheaper contract like you said.

Having to invest that much on RWers is far too much, especially when you've got one of the more overpaid players in the game at that position.

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06-19-2013, 03:24 PM
  #217
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LOL at that pipedream of a lineup.
Is it that much of a pipe-dream?

We're trading a top d-man for a top winger. Edmonton needs d-men. We need wingers. It works perfectly. We might need to add a small piece here or there (MZA to "replace" Eberle, a draft pick, a prospect.etc), but that deal is workable.

Aside from that, we sign one fourth liner in Nystrom, and either McIlrath is ready for the show, or we sign a 6th d-man. Preferably one for the PP. (MAB? Babchuk? Zidlicky?)

Doesn't seem too unrealistic for me.

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06-19-2013, 03:27 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
They're both soft, one-dimensional players, but I guess I'd rather have Eberle because of age and cheaper contract like you said.

Having to invest that much on RWers is far too much, especially when you've got one of the more overpaid players in the game at that position.
simple solution to NOT have too much tied up in RW.. move Nash to LW where he played the majority of his career. Imagine that, we'd have a legit #1 LW AND a legit #1 RW and maybe even a legit #1c if Stepan continues what he did last year.

R u talking about Callahan, because again Nash was on pace for almost a PPG game last year and over an 82 game season

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06-19-2013, 03:27 PM
  #219
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Is it that much of a pipe-dream?

We're trading a top d-man for a top winger. Edmonton needs d-men. We need wingers. It works perfectly. We might need to add a small piece here or there (MZA to "replace" Eberle, a draft pick, a prospect.etc), but that deal is workable.

Aside from that, we sign one fourth liner in Nystrom, and either McIlrath is ready for the show, or we sign a 6th d-man. Preferably one for the PP. (MAB? Babchuk? Zidlicky?)

Doesn't seem too unrealistic for me.
It will cost more than Del Zotto for Eberle IMHO

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06-19-2013, 03:28 PM
  #220
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It still blows my mind that we have to dip into the FA pool to find 4th line players while just about every other team in the league manages to develop their own. For all the *****ing I read about how we've spent the last 6 years drafting "safe" and "defense first" players, we certainly seem to have quite a problem filling holes with those kind of guys.

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06-19-2013, 03:37 PM
  #221
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They're both soft, one-dimensional players, but I guess I'd rather have Eberle because of age and cheaper contract like you said.

Having to invest that much on RWers is far too much, especially when you've got one of the more overpaid players in the game at that position.
I would agree if we have holes elsewhere, but where would we spend money?

Our center depth seems good. Stepan was on a 75 point pace this season. He could develop into a Bergeron type. Fine #1C. Brassard seems like the real deal in his time here. Perfect #2. We have Boyle. Perfect #4 that can move up if need be. Lindberg appears to be the perfect #3 for the future, and a decent #3 for this upcoming year.

Our D is pretty much set even with trading MDZ.

LD: McDonagh, Staal, Moore

RD: Girardi, Stralman, McIlrath

Every one of those except Stralman IMO is a part of our long-term core. I would love a top-flight RD to pair with McDonagh so we can reunite a Staal-Girardi shutdown pairing to start in the D-zone. Where would we acquire one? I would love to get Trouba out of WPG (as a Michigan student) and feel he would be absolutely perfect for what we need, but based on comments from WPG fans, he's pretty damn untouchable.

This leaves wingers. We need wingers with scoring ability. Someone with the balls to take a shot. Someone that doesn't disappear in the playoffs (Looking at you Cally, Nash). Who else could we acquire? Skinner? Not with his concussions.

an Alex Burmistrov is not going to be enough to help our problems.

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06-19-2013, 03:41 PM
  #222
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Rangers need there own version of a Silfverberg.

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06-19-2013, 03:41 PM
  #223
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Its just amazing, you see the Bruins and they dont have one legit superstar (or who you would think of as one) and they are a GREAT team. Meanwhile we've had guys like Gaborik (40 goal scorer many times), Nash, Richards (conn smythe winner), Hank, etc, and we can't win a ****ing cup

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06-19-2013, 03:44 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Its just amazing, you see the Bruins and they dont have one legit superstar (or who you would think of as one) and they are a GREAT team. Meanwhile we've had guys like Gaborik (40 goal scorer many times), Nash, Richards (conn smythe winner), Hank, etc, and we can't win a ****ing cup
Chara .... forgot about JAGR. guy is out there playing 20 minutes, and WELL. I know what you are saying though... in a way...


Even up front they dont have crazy A+ superstars but they have a ton of B++ stars like Lucic, Horton, Krejci (who might be an A+), Bergeron (hes awesome), Seguin, Marchand who really puts an impact on the game.

Pair that talent with some very good depth players who pound for pound are a little better then the avg bottom line guys and you get what you get. A very tough team to beat when playing well...

Not to mention GOD, AKA Krug... and the rest of their D which is solid.

Its a very good mix they have with good goaltending. The Rangers kind of had some of that going when they reached the finals but it wasnt nearly enough.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 06-19-2013 at 03:49 PM.
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06-19-2013, 03:50 PM
  #225
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I would agree if we have holes elsewhere, but where would we spend money?

Our center depth seems good. Stepan was on a 75 point pace this season. He could develop into a Bergeron type. Fine #1C. Brassard seems like the real deal in his time here. Perfect #2. We have Boyle. Perfect #4 that can move up if need be. Lindberg appears to be the perfect #3 for the future, and a decent #3 for this upcoming year.

Our D is pretty much set even with trading MDZ.

LD: McDonagh, Staal, Moore

RD: Girardi, Stralman, McIlrath

Every one of those except Stralman IMO is a part of our long-term core. I would love a top-flight RD to pair with McDonagh so we can reunite a Staal-Girardi shutdown pairing to start in the D-zone. Where would we acquire one? I would love to get Trouba out of WPG (as a Michigan student) and feel he would be absolutely perfect for what we need, but based on comments from WPG fans, he's pretty damn untouchable.

This leaves wingers. We need wingers with scoring ability. Someone with the balls to take a shot. Someone that doesn't disappear in the playoffs (Looking at you Cally, Nash). Who else could we acquire? Skinner? Not with his concussions.

an Alex Burmistrov is not going to be enough to help our problems.
hopefully stepan and brass can become similar bergeron and krejci. seem like our top 2 centers for a while.

out D is set. stralman is the most underrated player on this team by far. there is no reason to not want stralsy a part of this team.

for offense ideally a dz+ for eberle trade would go down. i doubt the oilers move eberle though and if they do, they would want a pretty big +. only other available wingers that interest me are clowe and briere.

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